What Happens When You Start Listening To Vinyl Again

[highfigh]

I'm one of those who never stopped playing vinyl. Vinyl is part of my music library. I do think vinyl gets a bad rap here from some. I will say to get the best out of vinyl you have to be somewhat OCD. However in a good system a listener should not know if its vinyl or CD. I have plenty of discs that do not make a pop or crackle.

Unless you really want to look for music that never made it to CD, then I'm not sure I would get into it now. It is a lot more trouble, but I might. I do sometimes buy a rare album, but more often than not it disappoints as the disc was not looked after.

But certainly vinyl is capable of very high fidelity indeed. Better than digital no. If it does sound different, then some audiophool is enamored with some exotic high priced turntable and cartridge that actually is aberrant. I note there are plenty of those around these days.

I stopped listening to vinyl, but never got rid of the turntable and LPs- I just didn't want extra boxes in and on my rack but since music is mastered for LP and should be mastered differently for CDs, I think it would be difficult for an LP to sound identical to a CD, even if it could. I do hear a difference in the mid-bass, though. That area seems a bit thin on many CDs and digitally recorded/streamed music and I don't use MP3 unless the resolution is high.

LP vs CD/digital recording isn't really an apples to apples comparison because of the inherent differences.

I have seen a Dust Bug in your photos- how do you clean your LPs? I know someone who's a sales rep for audio equipment and he doesn't understand the technical aspects of this stuff, sound, room setup, acoustics, etc- when I try to explain why something isn't as he says, he usually uses "it's experiential" as his response. He has a Nitty Gritty record cleaner and when I looked inside in order to replace the velvet 'lips' on the suction slot, it was like a bad science fair project- total crap. I'll try to find photos of that joke. They retailed for about $850. He borrowed a different one from a friend and said it was as if a veil had been lifted from the sound. It had a pair of spinning rollers that looked like the ones in the photo, but the stripes were red.

 

[highfigh]

Back in the late 70s early 80s not a whole lot of material available that needed a sub if you had some Large Advents. But with digital and high def movies that did change.

Music with synthesizers were killing speakers left and right because of the low end that the speakers couldn't produce. The first thing most speaker murderers did was buy an equalizer and speed up the process because they still couldn't hear the lowest band making any improvement, so they jacked it up until POOF!

 

[highfigh]

LPs are indeed capable of sub-40Hz bass, but it takes a very good and very well-adjusted turntable/arm/cartridge system to properly render that bass.

As for European pressings often being superior, agreed. I was a bit young and impoverished for the golden age of British audio.

Along with the adjustment, well-matched makes that possible. If everything is mis-matched, bad things (and bad sound) happen.

 

[TLS Guy]

I stopped listening to vinyl, but never got rid of the turntable and LPs- I just didn't want extra boxes in and on my rack but since music is mastered for LP and should be mastered differently for CDs, I think it would be difficult for an LP to sound identical to a CD, even if it could. I do hear a difference in the mid-bass, though. That area seems a bit thin on many CDs and digitally recorded/streamed music and I don't use MP3 unless the resolution is high.

LP vs CD/digital recording isn't really an apples to apples comparison because of the inherent differences.

I have seen a Dust Bug in your photos- how do you clean your LPs? I know someone who's a sales rep for audio equipment and he doesn't understand the technical aspects of this stuff, sound, room setup, acoustics, etc- when I try to explain why something isn't as he says, he usually uses "it's experiential" as his response. He has a Nitty Gritty record cleaner and when I looked inside in order to replace the velvet 'lips' on the suction slot, it was like a bad science fair project- total crap. I'll try to find photos of that joke. They retailed for about $850. He borrowed a different one from a friend and said it was as if a veil had been lifted from the sound. It had a pair of spinning rollers that looked like the ones in the photo, but the stripes were red.

View attachment 34449

Yes, I use the Cecil E. Watts Dust Bug for all playings.

I have never used a record cleaner and have never used wet cleaning methods on any of my large collection of LPs. Wet cleaning tends to move dirt to the bottom of the groove where it causes more noise. The solvents and other impurities dry and stick in the groove.

If I do find a record is unusually dusty, then I use the Hunt E.D.A. Mark 6 brush gently and briefly before playing

The Cecil E. Watts Dust Bug is used for all playings dry. The Shure Dynamic stabilizer also has a brush and neutralizes static.

I store records vertically in sleeves and their jackets. The sleeve openings point to a side of the jacket. I remove the sleeve and get out the LP without touching the playing surface. I keep turntable mats clean and place the LP gently on the turntable. I place the Dust Bug and then lower the stylus. I remove the LP from the turntable after playing and return it to the sleeve, jacket and storage shelf right after playing.

This has served me well and I have been blessed with very silent surfaces in the main. Many of my LPs play without any pops or clicks.

I have bought the odd used LP, but those are usually a disappointment and have a noisier surface than my collection. I have LPs in my collection going back over 60 years. The vast bulk of my LP collection predates 1984. So the collection was amassed over a period of about 30 years.

 

[highfigh]

Yes, I use the Cecil E. Watts Dust Bug for all playings.

I have never used a record cleaner and have never used wet cleaning methods on any of my large collection of LPs. Wet cleaning tends to move dirt to the bottom of the groove where it causes more noise. The solvents and other impurities dry and stick in the groove.

If I do find a record is unusually dusty, then I use the Hunt E.D.A. Mark 6 brush gently and briefly before playing

The Cecil E. Watts Dust Bug is used for all playings dry. The Shure Dynamic stabilizer also has a brush and neutralizes static.

I store records vertically in sleeves and their jackets. The sleeve openings point to a side of the jacket. I remove the sleeve and get out the LP without touching the playing surface. I keep turntable mats clean and place the LP gently on the turntable. I place the Dust Bug and then lower the stylus. I remove the LP from the turntable after playing and return it to the sleeve, jacket and storage shelf right after playing.

This has served me well and I have been blessed with very silent surfaces in the main. Many of my LPs play without any pops or clicks.

I have bought the odd used LP, but those are usually a disappointment and have a noisier surface than my collection. I have LPs in my collection going back over 60 years. The vast bulk of my LP collection predates 1984. So the collection was amassed over a period of about 30 years.

I haven't bought more than a few used LPs, for the same reasons- I don't want to hear the damage from someone else's $30 cartridge and bad cleaning habits. The first time I saw the haze on an LP from a Discwasher, I decided that wet cleaning wasn't the way to go. Sure, the Keith Monks cleaner uses alcohol, but still- is it possible to know that all of the crud is gone?

BTW- that goofy cleaner with the paint rollers made the album sound worse, which is the reason I took it to him- it had a scratch on one side and I replaced it as soon as that happened, so it didn't waste a good LP.

I like my turntable, but it has a complex method of eliminating tonearm resonances and if that circuitry fails, it will be too expensive to repair it, so the next turntable will be totally manual and basic. The problem- with the one I have, there's so little background noise that I hate to give it up.

 

[Mikado463]

I use a wet / vacuum method (VPI 16.5) with great results. While the majority of my LP's were bought new I do have a couple dozen that were bought used. All but a hand full cleaned up nicely, the others went to Goodwill.

One method for cleaning / restoring older records is the 'wood glue' method. Spread wood glue throughout and into the entire surface of the record, let it dry and remove.

 

[John Parks]

I use a wet / vacuum method (VPI 16.5) with great results. While the majority of my LP's were bought new I do have a couple dozen that were bought used. All but a hand full cleaned up nicely, the others went to Goodwill.

One method for cleaning / restoring older records is the 'wood glue' method. Spread wood glue throughout and into the entire surface of the record, let it dry and remove.

A few years ago when I got back into vinyl, I was curious about newer and different cleaning methods as I was a strict Discwasher adherent back in the day (I saw my 40+ year old brush out in storage recently):

Of course, I cannot afford multi kilobuck (or single kilobuck, for that matter) cleaning machines so I turned to YouTube and oh what a rabbit hole that was! Yes, I saw many wood glue videos and those were the sane ones! I like Techmoan's take on it:

 

[Bucknekked]

I use a wet / vacuum method (VPI 16.5) with great results. While the majority of my LP's were bought new I do have a couple dozen that were bought used. All but a hand full cleaned up nicely, the others went to Goodwill.

One method for cleaning / restoring older records is the 'wood glue' method. Spread wood glue throughout and into the entire surface of the record, let it dry and remove.

Honestly, I absolutely can't tell if you are spoofing me and making a joke or are serious with the wood glue thing.
First I have ever heard of something like that and I'm a bona fide member of the cranky old mens club.

 

[3db]

I stopped listening to vinyl, but never got rid of the turntable and LPs- I just didn't want extra boxes in and on my rack but since music is mastered for LP and should be mastered differently for CDs, I think it would be difficult for an LP to sound identical to a CD, even if it could. I do hear a difference in the mid-bass, though. That area seems a bit thin on many CDs and digitally recorded/streamed music and I don't use MP3 unless the resolution is high.

LP vs CD/digital recording isn't really an apples to apples comparison because of the inherent differences.

Tom Petty's Mojo album would proove you wrong. I own both

 

[Mikado463]

Honestly, I absolutely can't tell if you are spoofing me and making a joke or are serious with the wood glue thing.
First I have ever heard of something like that and I'm a bona fide member of the cranky old mens club.

no spoofing, while I have not done it I know several others who have and swear by it's virtues. Obviously it's time consuming but if it helps revive an older used LP .........…..

 

[sterling shoote]

Sidebar: First, The Cecil E. Watts device was advertised as being the result of the life-long work of Cecil Watts. After reading that I thought the guy needed to get a date. Second, I used a Discwasher back in the 70's/80's and it worked; however, the one offered today does not work and in fact leaves a residue on records which does nothing to improve the sound. Finally, I succumbed to the vinyl resurgence about three years ago, thinking, maybe in the time since I abandoned LPs for CDs back in the late 80's, vinyl had indeed improved; and, on that assumption, I proceeded to buy a few handfuls of new LPs from my favorite Jazz artists, as well as a new turntable with a plethora of features to assure the best performance from the cartridge. Boy, was I mislead. Vinyl has not improved. Overall, it is worse, with more snap, crackle, and pop, as well as sounding digital. At any rate, I am not a big fan of new music recorded to LPs. The detour I took to "re-discover" vinyl was a bust. But, now all is well, as I am back to multi-channel SACD pleasure, which actually does deliver the best sound I've heard so far. And, one more thing, I'm not at all interested in preaching to those who have a bond with LPs that they've been brainwashed. I get it that some OCD folks do indeed enjoy fiddling with it; but, for me, there's just too many problems with LPs for it not to be a distraction to my music listening pleasure.

 

[highfigh]

Tom Petty's Mojo album would proove you wrong. I own both

What points are you addressing?

Thanks for mentioning that one- I had heard almost none of it before now.

 

[MR.MAGOO]

I use a wet / vacuum method (VPI 16.5) with great results. While the majority of my LP's were bought new I do have a couple dozen that were bought used. All but a hand full cleaned up nicely, the others went to Goodwill.

One method for cleaning / restoring older records is the 'wood glue' method. Spread wood glue throughout and into the entire surface of the record, let it dry and remove.

I'd use an old turntable, or buy one cheap from Goodwill type store, no use in risking wood glue mess all over a good turntable!

 

[3db]

What points are you addressing?

Thanks for mentioning that one- I had heard almost none of it before now.

Oops, that vinyl and CD sound different. Most of them do but thats because of different mastering, not because of the medium. MOJO sounded the same on vinyl and on CD.

 

[Bucknekked]

Sidebar: First, The Cecil E. Watts device was advertised as being the result of the life-long work of Cecil Watts. After reading that I thought the guy needed to get a date. Second, I used a Discwasher back in the 70's/80's and it worked; however, the one offered today does not work and in fact leaves a residue on records which does nothing to improve the sound. Finally, I succumbed to the vinyl resurgence about three years ago, thinking, maybe in the time since I abandoned LPs for CDs back in the late 80's, vinyl had indeed improved; and, on that assumption, I proceeded to buy a few handfuls of new LPs from my favorite Jazz artists, as well as a new turntable with a plethora of features to assure the best performance from the cartridge. Boy, was I mislead. Vinyl has not improved. Overall, it is worse, with more snap, crackle, and pop, as well as sounding digital. At any rate, I am not a big fan of new music recorded to LPs. The detour I took to "re-discover" vinyl was a bust. But, now all is well, as I am back to multi-channel SACD pleasure, which actually does deliver the best sound I've heard so far. And, one more thing, I'm not at all interested in preaching to those who have a bond with LPs that they've been brainwashed. I get it that some OCD folks do indeed enjoy fiddling with it; but, for me, there's just too many problems with LPs for it not to be a distraction to my music listening pleasure.

Sterling
I think we are on the same wavelength on this topic. I have tried to love LPs again. I have a nice Pro-Ject turntable with a good cartridge on it. My albums are all brand new (no old junk from a bin). They are all clean and stored vertically in their dust jackets. Every now and again I will fire one up and give it a listen. I like the experience of vinyl. And using a turntable brings back certain great memories.

However, I learned to hate vinyl LPs for a lot of the reasons CD's took over the world. There's no escaping that or those memories. So, while I nod my head when people talk about vinyl, I do not wish to go back to spinning plastic and carving it with a needle to hear some tunes. I've made my peace with my choices. I love the sound my music room makes. However anyone else wants to do it is just fine by me.

 

[Mikado463]

I'd use an old turntable, or buy one cheap from Goodwill type store, no use in risking wood glue mess all over a good turntable!

agreed and the one friend who has done this procedure many times has done just that

 

[KenM10759]

Sometimes you get a surprise when poring through your old LP's for something to play on your new turntable. How about finding a mint condition poster alongside the pristine vinyl of my copy of The Who "Face Dances" album? I'm not going to find that in my CD's or streaming. I might have it mounted and framed for display. It's so nice. I've had it for over 30 years, never noticed there was a poster in there.

 

[Gmoney]

Sometimes you get a surprise when poring through your old LP's for something to play on your new turntable. How about finding a mint condition poster alongside the pristine vinyl of my copy of The Who "Face Dances" album? I'm not going to find that in my CD's or streaming. I might have it mounted and framed for display. It's so nice. I've had it for over 30 years, never noticed there was a poster in there.

That’s the reason I still spin my Vinyl, I have LP’s that go all the way back to 1972. Can’t find some of the tunes on CD or streaming.

 

[afterlife2]

Sometimes you get a surprise when poring through your old LP's for something to play on your new turntable. How about finding a mint condition poster alongside the pristine vinyl of my copy of The Who "Face Dances" album? I'm not going to find that in my CD's or streaming. I might have it mounted and framed for display. It's so nice. I've had it for over 30 years, never noticed there was a poster in there.

I just bought the Who greatest hits on cd the other day.

 

[highfigh]

Oops, that vinyl and CD sound different. Most of them do but thats because of different mastering, not because of the medium. MOJO sounded the same on vinyl and on CD.

If they sound the same, it's because they didn't use all of the frequency spectrum. I liked listening to that but if you listen again, you'll notice that the tracks closer to the end of the LP sides, the dynamics and frequency response are limited- this is because the inner part of the groove can't produce the same sound as the outer area. The surface passes at about 100 inches/minute at the beginning and only about 40 inches/minute at the end.

FWIW- I started listening with ear buds and started over by streaming through my Yamaha MusicCast, which sounds very good, IMO. I would think that the similarity of the LP and CD is intentional- Petty used to insist that his LPs not cost too much for people to buy and that didn't sit well with the record company and they had a lawsuit over a one dollar price difference. Making one format sound better than the other would have made one 'better', to many. The Petty recordings were very well produced and with Howie Epstein (RIP) as a co-producer, I think they taught each other a lot about getting the sound they wanted. Howie produced a good amount of music for others, some earning Grammy awards.

Tom Petty once battled his record label over $1 and changed the music industry for good

Tom Petty's willingness to stand up to his record label set an important precedent.

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