What do we know about Underwood mods for universal players?

B

Bassman2

Audioholic
I'm specifically looking at the mods for the Denon DVD 1930ci and wondering how much of an improvement it is and if anybody else does it cheaper? It seems to me that someone could put the parts in a plastic bag and sell it as a DIY kit for a fraction of the price. Since I can't be the only one who's thought of it, is there anything out there like that too? And what's your review of these, or other, mods? thanks. B2
 
WmAx

WmAx

Audioholic Samurai
I'm specifically looking at the mods for the Denon DVD 1930ci and wondering how much of an improvement it is and if anybody else does it cheaper? It seems to me that someone could put the parts in a plastic bag and sell it as a DIY kit for a fraction of the price. Since I can't be the only one who's thought of it, is there anything out there like that too? And what's your review of these, or other, mods? thanks. B2
Sounds like sssssssss...s...s...snake oil...

Mods like this are unsubstantiated. If anything, one may degrade performance if an error is made during the modification. What is potentially gained? Nothing that is actually audible, of which I am aware. However, it is likely an effective placebo.

-Chris
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
I'm specifically looking at the mods for the Denon DVD 1930ci and wondering how much of an improvement it is and if anybody else does it cheaper? It seems to me that someone could put the parts in a plastic bag and sell it as a DIY kit for a fraction of the price. Since I can't be the only one who's thought of it, is there anything out there like that too? And what's your review of these, or other, mods? thanks. B2
My question would be is what does the modifier, the seller or designer of that mod knows that, in this case Denon, doesn't?
 
krabapple

krabapple

Banned
Do these modifiers even offer before-and-after bench test measurement results?
 
highfihoney

highfihoney

Audioholic Samurai
Weather custom mods are snake oil or not i cant say but i am confused why anybody would want to mod anything,instead of spending cash on a mod just buy the best player you can & be done with it.
 
avaserfi

avaserfi

Audioholic Ninja
Weather custom mods are snake oil or not i cant say but i am confused why anybody would want to mod anything,instead of spending cash on a mod just buy the best player you can & be done with it.
Amen to that one. Those mods are not cheap, it really would be worth just buying a better quality product.
 
stratman

stratman

Audioholic Ninja
Weather custom mods are snake oil or not i cant say but i am confused why anybody would want to mod anything,instead of spending cash on a mod just buy the best player you can & be done with it.
That should be the end of the discussion. Just buy the best player you can afford.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
Do these modifiers even offer before-and-after bench test measurement results?
I have not seen one yet, but they just default to ones ears to try. LOL :D
Just like some cable companies I have called for data. They refer me to the store to give them a listen. :D
 
Tom Andry

Tom Andry

Speaker of the House
Here's a review we did. I don't think we have any more reviews like this planned anytime soon. It isn't on the model you're interested in but it is of a Underwood modded player.
 
krabapple

krabapple

Banned
Here's a review we did. I don't think we have any more reviews like this planned anytime soon. It isn't on the model you're interested in but it is of a Underwood modded player.
Useless. When oh when will you guys accept the scientific commonplace that a *sighted* listening comparison such as conducted in these reviews is irredeemably prone to error, such that ALL of the 'improvements to sound' quoted in your review might well be imaginary?
 
B

Bassman2

Audioholic
Well for one if there is a difference in higher priced models you could mod it with those components, right? So either mods could work or a lot of people got ripped off buying the DVD 999 instead of the DVD 222.

I was also mostly interested in the Idea of DIY kits being available. I mean paying $900 for $5 worth of parts just rubs me the wrong way anyhoo.
 
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I

indcrimdefense

Audioholic
there are few if any components discussed or reviewed on audioholics which are manufactured from a price is no object standpoint, & certainly not from major companies such as denon. this is not a criticism of denon, or any other large manufacturer, but some if not many parts used in any component are used for their cost to the manufacturer, & in the end how this affects the mfr's profit margin. in other words, in producing virtually any component, some compromises are made in order to be able to bring the component to market at a designated price point, w/ a designated profit margin. again, this is not a criticism, it's simply a matter of economics. in virtually any component, there are parts which can be upgraded. from experience in other fields (cars, golf clubs) such modifications can make a performance difference, or if done incorrectly or by someone who lacks the requisite skill can actually decrease performance or flat ruin whatever is being modified. certain smaller audio manufacturers do offer "modified" components straight from the factory with the full warranty. one example i can think of is a cary cinema 2 amplifier, which can be ordered with the larger 1400va power transformer from the cinema 5 over the standard 800va power transformer.
i lack the scientific and technical expertise to know whether changing from one resistor or capacitor or whatever will make a sonic improvement, but this does not mean that persons with this technical expertise do not exist. components are upgraded by the manufacturer all the time, often times by changing and or improving the quality of parts used in making the component. in other industries there are entire fields dedicated to modifying "stock" items from the manufacturer, & some of these are done w/ the full support of the manufacturer, for example amg & mercedes, saleen & ford.

what i do know from modifying non-audio items is that it is essential to find someone who has the requisite expertise to perform the modifications or more than likely you may as well burn your money. i have had drivers reshafted which made a significant improvement over the shaft which came from the factory, & i have had drivers reshafted which made the club for all intensive purposes unhittable. second, modifying items is almost never a best bang for your buck situation. some of the shafts i have purchased cost far more than the original club, but in the end at times the performance benefits were worth it. i drive a 350Z, & have a friend who has a highly modified 350Z which does have considerable performance & driving advantages over my car, but all of his mods have set him back over 10-15K. while it's a hell of alota fun to drive, the cost to performance increase is not worth it me, but it's worth it to him. however my nike driver which i picked up on sale for like $100 & then installed a $300+ shaft in was worth it me, as the performance increase was worth it (only slightly longer distance, but with better trajectory - which was a big improvement playing on windy days, a tighter shot dispersion & when it hooks it does not hook as much). however it also took trying 3 different shafts to get the right one, thank god my brother is a club maker. third, almost always your voiding the warranty, so may want to try & save some money & buy one used & then send in for modifications. some modifiers also offer some sort of warranty, but often it is limited timewise compared to the warranty from the factory.

as for not being able to hear differences between components, let's just say we can agree to disagree.
 
V

vman71

Audioholic Intern
I will be modding my Denon DVD-1930ci next week. Right now it is just a stock unit. I will be soldering in and installing one component.

I will be writing and posting a detailed and honest review of the one single mod. I have chosen to only do this one single mod to completely isolate the effects.

From experience in modding speaker xovers and components, all I can tell you is that it is the best thing that you can do. Now, it's easy for me to say this because I do the mods myself, which saves alot on the costs to mod.

Hands down, modding speaker xovers and components will give you more improvement than those expensive IC's, PC's and speaker cable (that are way too expensive and don't do a whole lot if anything at all).
 
highfihoney

highfihoney

Audioholic Samurai
One thing i know for sure about mods is that the cost of the mods is totally down the toilet at resale time,in most cases the mod adds no value to the unit & in some cases kills the resale value all together.
 
V

vman71

Audioholic Intern
The value of doing a mod is/should be for the person paying for the mod(s) to enjoy the benefits of them and not what value it's going to add at resale time. It's a sunk cost that if chosen wisely (mod(s) & price), will benefit you with either audio, video or both audio & video improvement.

As an example, I've modded all my speaker crossovers and have been enjoying the sonic improvements for about two years now. I have no plans to sell my speakers anytime in the near future. It cost me time and money, however the sonic benefits more than justify the cost.

A person needs to be smart about doing mods.
 
V

vman71

Audioholic Intern
The value of doing a mod is/should be for the person paying for the mod(s) to enjoy the benefits of them and not what value it's going to add at resale time. It's a sunk cost that if chosen wisely (mod(s) & price), will benefit you with either audio, video or both audio & video improvement.

As an example, I've modded all my speaker crossovers and have been enjoying the sonic improvements for about two years now. I have no plans to sell my speakers anytime in the near future. It cost me time and money, however the sonic benefits more than justify the cost.

A person needs to be smart about doing mods.
Another, maybe better example would be:
I just bought a K&N air filter for my car. Sure, it was 5 times the cost of a plain air filter. However, now my car is getting 2mpg more per gallon. You do the math.....it will easily more than pay for itself. I bought it to enjoy the benefits of it and not to see what it was going to do the resale price of my car.
 
highfihoney

highfihoney

Audioholic Samurai
Im as subjective as you can get when it comes to audio but i'll never understand why so many people like to equate automobiles with audio equipment,i run k&n filters in all my harley's & the mustang that i own but i fail to see the connection.

If it sounds better after the mod is done thats great but to throw any thoughts of resale value out the window,no matter how noble prefering great sound over cash spent sounds is not wise choice in this hobby of ours.

People who do not think about resale value are my favorite sellers when its time for me to buy gear.
 
D

dem beats

Senior Audioholic
Im as subjective as you can get when it comes to audio but i'll never understand why so many people like to equate automobiles with audio equipment,i run k&n filters in all my harley's & the mustang that i own but i fail to see the connection.

If it sounds better after the mod is done thats great but to throw any thoughts of resale value out the window,no matter how noble prefering great sound over cash spent sounds is not wise choice in this hobby of ours.

People who do not think about resale value are my favorite sellers when its time for me to buy gear.
You sneaky vulture!

J/K

I think most people never think of selling their gear if they get into mods. It's just like the DIY guy. His blood sweat and tears go into it. even if he upgrades.. it will go somewhere close so he can see it.

I have a budy who will only sell his car to friends at a fair price everyone else he jacks the price up 5K... as he has done so much to it. it's a super duper rice race car, and he loved that little Subaru, and wants to see someone else love it like he did, even thoguh he's moving on from it.

I am more along your line of thought HighFi, but just playing devils advocate.
 
V

vman71

Audioholic Intern
Im as subjective as you can get when it comes to audio but i'll never understand why so many people like to equate automobiles with audio equipment,i run k&n filters in all my harley's & the mustang that i own but i fail to see the connection.

If it sounds better after the mod is done thats great but to throw any thoughts of resale value out the window,no matter how noble prefering great sound over cash spent sounds is not wise choice in this hobby of ours.

People who do not think about resale value are my favorite sellers when its time for me to buy gear.
The connection is that when you mod something (e.g., cars, audio gear) you do it to improve the performance (hopefully while you own it).

With many other more important priorities than audio (family, wife, kids), I don't have the luxury to turn audio gear over as often as some. So I try to buy things that I can keep for a while.

I too think about resale, that is why I'm very careful about what I buy, what I pay for it, what I chose to mod, and how much I put into modding it. It's not rocket science, it common sense and good decision making/judgement.
 
highfihoney

highfihoney

Audioholic Samurai
Im not trying to belittle your modding of your units,even though i firmly believe that paying for mods is taking a step backwards instead of just buying a better player, i also believe that if a person has the skills to do their own mods then it adds to the fun in listening.

To the average person who has no modding skills it does not make sense to me to pay for the mod,these "upgrades" or tweaks are not cheap & when the cost of the upgrade is added into the cost of the player the total cost would have been better applied to jumping up to the next level player without mods.

If i come off as being crass about mods its only because ive been in this hobby for a long time & ive seen many a hobbiest spend copious amounts of cash on mods & tweaks only to sell off the gear & loose a fat wad.
 

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