mike c
Audioholic Warlord
hey Andrew, Warp is overtaking you in building a sub!
are we there yet?
are we there yet?
"Let our rigorous testing and reviews be your guidelines to A/V equipment – not marketing slogans"
ParadigmDawg
Audioholic Overlord
Andrew has school and work to be completed before the build, Warp just had to quit shaggin" women for 2 days to free up time.
hey Andrew, Warp is overtaking you in building a sub!
are we there yet?
mike c
Audioholic Warlord
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N
Nuance AH
Audioholic General
LOL! I don't think he'll ever stop doing that. Women before subwoofers would be his motto, me thinks.
N
Nuance AH
Audioholic General
Andrew is getting there.hey Andrew, Warp is overtaking you in building a sub!
are we there yet?
I look forward to his results.
Warpdrv
Audioholic Ninja
Yeah, guess what.... I didn't get any work done on any subwoofers last night...LOL! I don't think he'll ever stop doing that. Women before subwoofers would be his motto, me thinks.
I was busy...
Warpdrv
Audioholic Ninja
Woot Woot
Well tonight was the night..... dropped in the driver and sealed it up and brought the sub and amp up to my bedroom and ran with it....
Equipment
Paradigm Sig S4's
D-Sonic 500w/channel Ice amp
JL Audio F112
DIY TC-Sounds 15" TC2000 / QSC PLX2 - 2502
Brandon is over here right now, we are going back and forth between the JL F112 and the 15" TC2000..... In comparison, the TC2K is an extremely capable sub.... I am very very impressed. The F112 is also needless to say a very articulate sub, manufactured to be one of the best subs I have heard especially for music.
The ARO single band EQ on the F112 was disabled to keep the playing field equal.
First thoughts, the F112 has a touch better upper bass handling and performance, but they are so very close its hard to tell the difference, I had Brandon fooled a couple of times with the blind testing, where he thought he picked out the F112, but it was the TC. On the other hand the F112 struggles a bit more in the lower hz range compared to the TC, some of the deep tracks we were running the "David Gilmour - Live at Royal Albert" track is "Time" second song in, the bass here is darn near overwhelming and shakes everything in my room.... unbelievable... We were replaying that track multiple times with the F112 hitting 119db and the TC 120db... it seams the TC is amp limited here running at max output with the clip lights just barely coming on - on the QSC PLX2 - 2502. I know it could handle more power - but I can't say I am dissapointed here whatsoever... Amazing to say the least. We also ran through multiple musical tracks from Joe Satriani and others, judging performance I know the JL is awesome with everything I have thrown at it, the TC matches everything easily, and with EQ will be even better down low, not that its lacking, but a little EQ down low, and add in some boost in the upper bass I am thrilled to death. I have never measured my room nor did I feel the need with the JL, but I plan to bring my SMS in here to see whats going on, and add some boost to the low end rumble zone.
Brandon had a serious grin on his face....
In comparison, the F112 has an entrance fee of over $2000.00, and the full build out for the TC was around $650-$700 with the Behringer EP2500 amp and materials. To be fair, the F112 does things not many 12" drivers are capable of doing, and it does it very well, I have no regrets buying this sub, but to me I personally can't hardly the difference, so I could easily sell the JL and get a good chunk of my money back and feel no regrets...
Well tonight was the night..... dropped in the driver and sealed it up and brought the sub and amp up to my bedroom and ran with it....
Equipment
Paradigm Sig S4's
D-Sonic 500w/channel Ice amp
JL Audio F112
DIY TC-Sounds 15" TC2000 / QSC PLX2 - 2502
Brandon is over here right now, we are going back and forth between the JL F112 and the 15" TC2000..... In comparison, the TC2K is an extremely capable sub.... I am very very impressed. The F112 is also needless to say a very articulate sub, manufactured to be one of the best subs I have heard especially for music.
The ARO single band EQ on the F112 was disabled to keep the playing field equal.
First thoughts, the F112 has a touch better upper bass handling and performance, but they are so very close its hard to tell the difference, I had Brandon fooled a couple of times with the blind testing, where he thought he picked out the F112, but it was the TC. On the other hand the F112 struggles a bit more in the lower hz range compared to the TC, some of the deep tracks we were running the "David Gilmour - Live at Royal Albert" track is "Time" second song in, the bass here is darn near overwhelming and shakes everything in my room.... unbelievable... We were replaying that track multiple times with the F112 hitting 119db and the TC 120db... it seams the TC is amp limited here running at max output with the clip lights just barely coming on - on the QSC PLX2 - 2502. I know it could handle more power - but I can't say I am dissapointed here whatsoever... Amazing to say the least. We also ran through multiple musical tracks from Joe Satriani and others, judging performance I know the JL is awesome with everything I have thrown at it, the TC matches everything easily, and with EQ will be even better down low, not that its lacking, but a little EQ down low, and add in some boost in the upper bass I am thrilled to death. I have never measured my room nor did I feel the need with the JL, but I plan to bring my SMS in here to see whats going on, and add some boost to the low end rumble zone.
Brandon had a serious grin on his face....
In comparison, the F112 has an entrance fee of over $2000.00, and the full build out for the TC was around $650-$700 with the Behringer EP2500 amp and materials. To be fair, the F112 does things not many 12" drivers are capable of doing, and it does it very well, I have no regrets buying this sub, but to me I personally can't hardly the difference, so I could easily sell the JL and get a good chunk of my money back and feel no regrets...
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Nuance AH
Audioholic General
It thundered all night, by there was no rain or lightning!
Needless to say, the first sub built a la warpdrv is a monster! In comparison to the JL it seemed to have every bit as much output or more, but it sounded cleaner and less bloated and/or lose. I am no sub connoisseur, but that's how I would describe it.
To get a little more specific, at first I thought the JL was better. However, after switching back and forth the DIY just sounded cleaner, putting out the same SPL with less effort. I think we may have heard a bit of compression from the smaller JL, while the DIY sub begged for more power. This certainly produced a less clean sound concerning the JL, which may may be why I thought it was a little bloated in comparison. I also agree with Patrick that the DIY doesn't have as much upper bass punch, but that could have been due to the room, the lack of EQ, etc. Down the road I'll be going with some hardware to EQ this bad boy, so I'll be able to tune it to my liking.
After we had finished I knew I could be very happy with either subwoofer in my home. However, when weighing in the price difference (even after I purchase my SMS-1) and taking into consideration how much fun this was for me (us), the DIY subwoofer/route is a no brainer. With the aid of warp's SMS EQ I know the 15" TC2000 could easily match or surpass the JL Audio Fathom 112. I honestly didn't know what to expect in comparison, but I left with a big 'ol smile on my face, unable to think about anything but the day I bring that sucker home for the first time. That will be a great day my friends!
Thanks for having me over again, Patrick. Your hospitality is among the best I've ever encountered, and you're a great host to boot. Thanks for everything, brother!
Needless to say, the first sub built a la warpdrv is a monster! In comparison to the JL it seemed to have every bit as much output or more, but it sounded cleaner and less bloated and/or lose. I am no sub connoisseur, but that's how I would describe it.
To get a little more specific, at first I thought the JL was better. However, after switching back and forth the DIY just sounded cleaner, putting out the same SPL with less effort. I think we may have heard a bit of compression from the smaller JL, while the DIY sub begged for more power. This certainly produced a less clean sound concerning the JL, which may may be why I thought it was a little bloated in comparison. I also agree with Patrick that the DIY doesn't have as much upper bass punch, but that could have been due to the room, the lack of EQ, etc. Down the road I'll be going with some hardware to EQ this bad boy, so I'll be able to tune it to my liking.
After we had finished I knew I could be very happy with either subwoofer in my home. However, when weighing in the price difference (even after I purchase my SMS-1) and taking into consideration how much fun this was for me (us), the DIY subwoofer/route is a no brainer. With the aid of warp's SMS EQ I know the 15" TC2000 could easily match or surpass the JL Audio Fathom 112. I honestly didn't know what to expect in comparison, but I left with a big 'ol smile on my face, unable to think about anything but the day I bring that sucker home for the first time. That will be a great day my friends!
Thanks for having me over again, Patrick. Your hospitality is among the best I've ever encountered, and you're a great host to boot. Thanks for everything, brother!
ParadigmDawg
Audioholic Overlord
I think I will go ahead and build a DIY sub, I will call it the 'WARP CRUSHER".
jwenthold99
Full Audioholic
Looks very impressive. I would LOVE to hear what it sounds like Is there a plan that you used for this? I would like to attempt a project like this in the future.
Is there a plan that you used for this? I would like to attempt a project like this in the future.
Warpdrv
Audioholic Ninja
You better hurry up, as my 2nd TC2K is already in build mode, and then comes the 3rd and Dual 18" Maelstroms to consecutively follow....
N
Nuance AH
Audioholic General
lol! Fair enough.
Oooooooh yeah! Your room is gonna boom boom.You better hurry up, as my 2nd TC2K is already in build mode, and then comes the 3rd and Dual 18" Maelstroms to consecutively follow....
Swerd
Audioholic Warlord
Nuance
It's great reading about your DIY sub. The build photos are great. That 15" TC Sounds driver is a beast. Is it easy for one person to carry, or do you need a forklift?
Just one bit of advice: when you take photos, put down that power sander or at least turn it off, it makes your camera shake.
When you're done with the subwoofer, maybe you'll be ready to build some real speakers next, you know, the kind with crossovers in them. I hear there's a guy named Dennis Murphy who has some real good designs.
Rich
It's great reading about your DIY sub. The build photos are great. That 15" TC Sounds driver is a beast. Is it easy for one person to carry, or do you need a forklift?
Just one bit of advice: when you take photos, put down that power sander or at least turn it off, it makes your camera shake
.When you're done with the subwoofer, maybe you'll be ready to build some real speakers next, you know, the kind with crossovers in them. I hear there's a guy named Dennis Murphy who has some real good designs.
Rich
ParadigmDawg
Audioholic Overlord
Mine wont be ready until Christmas. The woofer is on the way but the box is going to lag behind a bit.
You better hurry up, as my 2nd TC2K is already in build mode, and then comes the 3rd and Dual 18" Maelstroms to consecutively follow....
Spkr_Bldr
Full Audioholic
I think it would be really cool to compare your subs to a Rythmic Servo sub. And then compare it to an open baffle sub setup on music.
mike c
Audioholic Warlord
Christmas 2009
ParadigmDawg
Audioholic Overlord
That's not funny!
My little sealed TC3k should do just fine and it's this Christmas!
My little sealed TC3k should do just fine and it's this Christmas!
Christmas 2009
Warpdrv
Audioholic Ninja
Hey Ryan.... thanks for stopping by to post here...
Heheheh Well when you decide to bring those other subs over here, I'll be happy to compare them with ya...
Seriously though, I agree.... I am truly intrigued with the measurements/comparison of different designs of subwoofers... Personally I have more appreciation for the sealed nature of subwoofers... they may require a bit more power and can suffer from compression with lesser quality drivers,nothing a bit more power and EQ down low can't take care of, but none the less I still prefer them over ported. I would imagine that I will be getting some people all boiled over on my judgement call, so I will have to build a well designed ported, with a high quality driver before I can cr@p on the competition as far as design goes..
Now-as far as the rythmik servo goes, a well known and respected audio reviewer/guru lends his comments towards the servo design as being a band aid for drivers that can't cut the mustard down low. Look at the AVTalk output compression curves for the Velo DD series and you’ll see what I mean. Conventional overhung motor is still king for sealed subs, just look at the F113. JL and TCSounds/Audiopulse are the kings of the hill as far as design quality goes.
Remember, in case you didn't know, that the Rythmik driver was originally designed and modified for rythmik by TC-Sounds, and is an early incarnation of the TC-1000 driver, which was/is a phenomenal driver in its own right.
As far as open baffle... you just took me way out in to the deep end where I have no experience, so maybe you could educate me on that one...although I would love someday to incorporate an infinite baffle into my setup, I have a really great space for it in my attic above my great room. I had thought about going that route, but it seems that it never took off for me... heheh maybe there was not enough work involved.... HA...
Patrick
Warpdrv
Audioholic Ninja
Are you getting a TC-3000......?
Thats the next step up from the 2000... <---- hey look I can count...
Anyways... nice driver... I would love to get a handful of those for myself..
Keep us posted... and go sealed, it will blow away the Paradigm Servo .v2, and let me give you a small piece of advice... get a bigger amp then the sub requires if you are going sealed, the 2000's are clearly amp limited, and can take way more, they are not even coming close to full excursion, maybe half and we were getting 120db in this room...
ParadigmDawg
Audioholic Overlord
Yep, the driver is on the way.
It will be sealed and powered or should I say, under powered by a Behringer EP2500 or maybe two of them
My room is about the same size as yours so hopefully this will pressurize it.
It will be sealed and powered or should I say, under powered by a Behringer EP2500 or maybe two of them
My room is about the same size as yours so hopefully this will pressurize it.
Are you getting a TC-3000......?
Thats the next step up from the 2000... <---- hey look I can count...
Anyways... nice driver... I would love to get a handful of those for myself..
Keep us posted... and go sealed, it will blow away the Paradigm Servo .v2, and let me give you a small piece of advice... get a bigger amp then the sub requires if you are going sealed, the 2000's are clearly amp limited, and can take way more, they are not even coming close to full excursion, maybe half and we were getting 120db in this room...
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