warm or bright receivers.

[markw]

Nah. It's the little Asian girl that supplies Alton with his gadgets

.....Mark, is that the little Italian girl?....a guy asked me one time if I thought she had a pretty face, but with the way she bends over a lot with them low-cut tops, who would know?....that tall blond-headed girl has some sizable dinners also....what?....yeah, I go to Church and am 56, but I ain't dead yet....

in Bed, Bath and Beyond. I wish...

 

[hopjohn]

hello once again,
I read so much about how one receiver sounds bright and another sounds warm or less bright.
could someone tell me if this is a verifiable fact, or is it just personal opinions???

Sorry to interupt the debate, and pardon my pessimism on the subject but I'm guessing Frank would prefer a quick and dirty answer. So here it is...listen, learn what it is you like, and buy it...warm, bright or otherwise. After all the forum members here won't be listening to it, just you. Sorry to be blunt, but I doubt long winded discussions/disgreements on damping factor are going to benefit you in the ways that you'd hoped for when you posted your questions.

Have I ever heard differences in amps and receivers with settings set to flat or as close to flat as was possible?, yes I have.

Would I describe these as bright or warm? no I would not.

I would descibe one amp as having the ability to reproduce lower frequencies at higher levels than the other. Were they both flat/ neutral/ transparent?, Yes, but one had a greater frequency response than the other at the low end. This can and often does change the perceived characteristics of higher frequencies (usually in the mid-range) due to room modes and other measurable changes caused by the greater prescense of these lower frequencies interacting with the room.

Will these reasons always hold true amp to receiver to receiver, I can't say because as I said before the room, source, cables etc. will play their role, and change the entire scenario.

I used to think there were differences in the same way as you do, but learned that there were reasons beyond simply different brands and model#'s.

The primary thing to undestand from my first post is that using blanket statements that reciever x or that receiver y is bright or warm is absurd. Now it may sound that way in Joe's room and Bob's, but not in Geroge's or Bill's. So do you wanna go with what they say or would you rather hear receiver x or y in your own room and then decide?

 

[Snap]

My .02 cents.

wow I got lost in this thread......

Not sure who said what....but here is my .02 cents.....

Some people like Ford, some like Chevy. Go.....listen..pick what is best for YOU...buy.....and enjoy!

 

[mtrycrafts]

Some people like Ford, some like Chevy. Go.....listen..pick what is best for YOU...buy.....and enjoy!

Yes, but when claims are made for one over the other, it is testable and someone may not be correct

 

[thxgoon]

Just as soon as that fencepost contradicts what is know to be real, factual and testable.

Wow, mtry. You are so smart. Do you actually own a sound system?

 

[toquemon]

I trully miss the discussions between Mtry and AVphile...

Well, i've owned middle class Onkyo, Yamaha, Harman Kardon and Linn and i can tell you that i can hear a very subtle difference between them that i wouldn't be able to reveal in a DBT, for sure. The differences are very, very small. Yamaha supposed to be bright and Harman Kardon supposed to be warm, but, that's a lie. They all sound almost the same.

The main difference comes when you try some "difficult" speakers (low impedance, low sensitivity). That's when your amp can show what is been made off.

The principal difference that you can count on to decide if some receiver is bright of warm or whatever, is the interaction it has with the loudspeakers. The speakers are the key. Almost all metal dome tweeter will sound bright, almost all horns will sound very-bright; almost all silk dome tweeters will sound warm.

 

[Tempest]

I'm going to jump in here in support of the post above:

All things being equal, if for example a Pioneer, Denon and Sony AVR all had the exact same specs that were 'true', it would be very difficult/impossible to hear and measure a difference. However, as we do see in unbiased reviews from time to time, the specs listed by some companies are not true. So here we go: Amp #1 sounds brighter/thinner than Amp #2 because the specs for Amp #1 are not 'true' and it is incapable of powering speakers they should be able to power...resulting in a bright/thin sound.

This kind of thing happens in all walks of life. Several years ago, Consumer Reports slammed a popular gas company for formulating their gas to give a higher octane reading when tested than what was truly present.

Now what would be really useful is if mtrycrafts got out some of his toys and started reporting to us data concerning companies that fudge their specs. I'm not being sarcastic...

 

[mtrycrafts]

Wow, mtry. You are so smart. Do you actually own a sound system?

And if I didn't, so what? Is this a private forum??? With prerequisites of owning an audio system?
How about a couple of boom-boxes? Will that do???

 

[mtrycrafts]

The main difference comes when you try some "difficult" speakers (low impedance, low sensitivity). That's when your amp can show what is been made off.

If a speaker load is such that an amp will be driven beyond its design capability, one needs different amps.

 

[mtrycrafts]

All things being equal, if for example a Pioneer, Denon and Sony AVR all had the exact same specs that were 'true', it would be very difficult/impossible to hear and measure a difference.

Why do you think this is a necessary priory? The don't have to measure exactly the same. I am sure same models do not measure exactly the same, if you have enough decimal places in the measuring tool Most of the measurements are below the threshold of detection already. So it matters not if one is .04 and another is .01. If the component is not driven beyond its design limits, that is the key to comparing components.


However, as we do see in unbiased reviews from time to time, the specs listed by some companies are not true.

Maybe a different THD is used for power ratings? So, it is somewhat a biased rating when the two conditions are not the same.


So here we go: Amp #1 sounds brighter/thinner than Amp #2 because the specs for Amp #1 are not 'true' and it is incapable of powering speakers they should be able to power...resulting in a bright/thin sound.

Bright, thin is a frequency response issue. They are flat enough to be below the thresholds of detection. Bogus issue.

Several years ago, Consumer Reports slammed a popular gas company for formulating their gas to give a higher octane reading when tested than what was truly present.


Or, was it that the company just used a non standard method to calculate it. Since I subscribe to CR, I don't recall this issue. Please cite it.


Now what would be really useful is if mtrycrafts got out some of his toys and started reporting to us data concerning companies that fudge their specs. I'm not being sarcastic...

Ah, reinventing the wheel??? Aren't there enough mags printing numbers?

 

[Tempest]

Removed my me. Apologies.

 

[Tempest]

Removed my me. Apologies.

 

[WmAx]

There is no convincing you of anything because it isn't about audio or data. Have you ever posted any of your DBT tests here? I don’t mean someone else’s data…YOUR data. It really think it is time for you to put out or shut up. Until that happens, you appear to be nothing but a passive-aggressive on a senseless mission.

What's all this about? From what I can tell, mtrycrafts only tries to help and inform others of the known relevant parameters and issues concerning audio reproduction. By known, I mean what has been proven to be relevant and in real existance, not what is imagined/speculated by an audiophile without substantion.

-Chris

 

[thxgoon]

And if I didn't, so what? Is this a private forum??? With prerequisites of owning an audio system?
How about a couple of boom-boxes? Will that do???

No, it's just obvious that you have no idea what you're are talking about. You're like that kid that didn't quite make the debate team in high school. You'll pick a fight based on logic alone in any arena, even if you make no sense. Which you don't. Do us all a favor, from what I've read of others responding to your posts. Go away. Thanks.

 

[Tempest]

What's all this about? From what I can tell, mtrycrafts only tries to help and inform others of the known relevant parameters and issues concerning audio reproduction.

-Chris

I don't think so! Beside, I think most sentient individuals realize that what looks good on paper is not what always works. I stand by my opinion in spite of removing it. He is argumentative with no real purpose and certainly doesn't need your support. His self-important, snotty attitude is more than enough. His use of after putting down people opinions is proof enough of that.