warm or bright receivers.

[newtoitall]

hello once again,

I read so much about how one receiver sounds bright and another sounds warm or less bright.
could someone tell me if this is a verifiable fact, or is it just personal opinions???

If it is fact, could I get a list of what receivers are considered bright and what ones are considered warm.

thanks,
Frank

 

[mtrycrafts]

hello once again,

I read so much about how one receiver sounds bright and another sounds warm or less bright.
could someone tell me if this is a verifiable fact, or is it just personal opinions???

If it is fact, could I get a list of what receivers are considered bright and what ones are considered warm.

thanks,
Frank

No, it is not fact. Yes, it can be verified through DBT listening and frequency response measurements. And, inmagination has lots to do 2with perceptiosn in audio

 

[hopjohn]

The idea is to have a receiver that does NOT alter the source. The warm, bright receiver misconception thing keeps getting tossed out there. The fact is the source, room, speakers, and possibly even (poorly designed) interconnects have more to do with making something sound bright or warm. Receivers and amps are designed to remain neutral, and with few exceptions do.

 

[Tempest]

No, it is not fact. Yes, it can be verified through DBT listening and frequency response measurements. And, inmagination has lots to do 2with perceptiosn in audio

I have no idea why you are at this forum. Do you actually enjoy listening to music and have any opinions about what you musically like from your audio equipment? It is about music…you know…that stuff that moves people and enriches their lives. People are here because they love music and want to share their thoughts and ideas.

Every time I see one of your posts, I see you (in my delusional brain) sitting in a sound-proof room. You have a single micro phone perfectly placed in a different room that contains your audio hardware. The mic feeds what 'it' hears to an SPL gadget and you watch the music.

 

[markw]

Anyhow, back to the subject at hand.

I'd throw my hat in the ring with hojohn and mtry, who basically said the same thing.

Lok toi your speakers for any brightness problems, and then the room. ..and don't forget the source software as well.

remember, one man's bright is another man's detailed. ..and someone else's warn may be yet another persons muddy.

 

[droeses58]

While it may [or may not] be true that a amplifier may not change sound from one to another there most certainly are other anomalies that change the sound. I can certainly here differences in sound between my pioneer, h/k and outlaw.

So if it isn't the amp sounding different between my equipment, what is it?

 

[mtrycrafts]

I can certainly here differences in sound between my pioneer, h/k and outlaw.

So if it isn't the amp sounding different between my equipment, what is it?

One thing is for sure, you most likely didn't come to this conclusion through unbiased component comparisons.

Actually, most likely what you perceive is an unreliable perception, biase and brain not liking a no difference, hence they fill in and imagine things. Just human nature.

 

[mtrycrafts]

.....Mrtycrafts, you tickle me, buddy....I'm CONVINCED you would argue with a fencepost while you waved your spl meter and reading material in the air.....

Just as soon as that fencepost contradicts what is know to be real, factual and testable.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I have no idea why you are at this forum.

Do I get under your skin? A threat to your beliefs? Does it really matter? Why are you here?



Do you actually enjoy listening to music and have any opinions about what you musically like from your audio equipment?


Irrelevant what I enjoy or like. It only has meaning to me, no one else.


It is about music…you know…that stuff that moves people and enriches their lives.



From what I read, it seems that it is about components, not the music. That is just an excuse.


People are here because they love music and want to share their thoughts and ideas.


Good. I am sharing mine. You just don't happen to like it. Not important in the big picture, really.

Every time I see one of your posts, I see you (in my delusional brain) sitting in a sound-proof room. You have a single micro phone perfectly placed in a different room that contains your audio hardware. The mic feeds what 'it' hears to an SPL gadget and you watch the music.


Why do you even bother reading my posts? Stop torturing yourself.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Irrelevant what I enjoy or like. It only has meaning to me, no one else.

You are wrong. If you took a more personable approach to posting, you'd develop some trust, and more importantly - respect in people if you'd open up and give your own perspectives on things, and not what's been documented by others.

Why be afraid to list your equipment? Why be afraid to tell what you enjoy, and dislike about this great hobby?

Sometimes you are so far out in left field regarding a topic, many do ignore your posts. You have many good things to say, you just have issues saying them in a friendly manner, and have very little personality in your posts. You may disagree with me on this, but communication is paramount to getting a point across.

You're approaching 2400 posts, and I'm not sure 3 guys here know what equipment you own (I'd guess Bryston, but who knows?), what really drives you about this hobby (are you an installer?), and what your wife looks like. (JK on the third one, but I'm betting she's hot - just a hunch. Hot chix dig smart guys )

You may wish to be annonymous your entire life, but for once try to open up about what you enjoy about this hobby, and I guarantee you'll have a wider audience listening.

 

[mtrycrafts]

You are wrong. If you took a more personable approach to posting, you'd develop some trust, and more importantly - respect in people if you'd open up and give your own perspectives on things, and not what's been documented by others.

Why be afraid to list your equipment? Why be afraid to tell what you enjoy, and dislike about this great hobby?

Sometimes you are so far out in left field regarding a topic, many do ignore your posts. You have many good things to say, you just have issues saying them in a friendly manner, and have very little personality in your posts. You may disagree with me on this, but communication is paramount to getting a point across.

You're approaching 2400 posts, and I'm not sure 3 guys here know what equipment you own (I'd guess Bryston, but who knows?), what really drives you about this hobby (are you an installer?), and what your wife looks like. (JK on the third one, but I'm betting she's hot - just a hunch. Hot chix dig smart guys )

You may wish to be annonymous your entire life, but for once try to open up about what you enjoy about this hobby, and I guarantee you'll have a wider audience listening.

I don't have Bryston. Just accept I have two boomboxes No, I don't install as a profession but if frends ask for help, who am I to refuse
Everything else is irrelevant. It is about the ideas being passed back and forth. But thanks for the suggestions anyhow

 

[MDS]

Mtrycrafts,
You know I tend to agree with you most of the time but do you have to quote every single statement of someone's post and counter with 'biased, human perception, not proven', etc?

On this particular topic, wouldn't it be more helpful to just point out some of the things that can lead to the perception of brightness? Like the speakers or a room with lots of hard surfaces (empty walls, tile or wood floor), improper calibration, etc.

It is generally true that modern electronics are transparent, but that's not the end of the story. A receiver or amp may not be 'bright' but there are a multitude of other factors that affect what we hear. How about discussing those other things too? Guide people to see the big picture.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

I don't have Bryston. Just accept I have two boomboxes

OK, fair enough. You know, there's a pretty big following for the old boomboxes. If you're as old as I am, you'll remember there were a few that sounded pretty good back in the day. Do these bring back memories - anyone? (pics courtesy of Pocket Calculator Show)

Marty, are either of these you?

 

[Tempest]

mtrycrafts,

You don't trust your own ears/brain...the very things you use when listening to music. That concept alone puts you on a different planet from most of us.

Most humans choose their possessions based at least partially on data if they are savvy, but ultimately, choices like the car they drive, the sofa they sit in and the shoes they wear are based on 'how it feels'. Do you have measuring gadgets for those kinds of purchases as well?

A few years ago I walked into an listening room at an audio dealer I had never been to. The room was rather dark and the system was playing a CD of English madrigals for soprano and lute. I got chills over my entire body and it wasn't based on what the audio hardware looked like or its price. The only delusion I experienced there was looking around the room for the two artists playing the music. That kind of reaction can’t be measured with a rat shack gizmo.

Music is another form of human communication. The quest for great audio equipment is to get as close to 'the real deal' as possible. It’s crazy enough that we use electronics to bring music into our home. Using more electronics to confirm what we hear and prefer is one sad concept.

 

[tbewick]

I don't think receivers sound very different. Speakers certainly do. A lot of the perceived differences in the sound of audio equipment, I feel, is the result of the placebo effect. Maybe one exception are tube amps, which I have read have the effect of increasing the warmth of the sound.

Deadening your room acoustically is the best option if you prefer a less lively sound.

Another way of adjusting the warm or brightness of your system is to use treble controls/equalisers. If you want to improve the warmth of the sound from your amplifier, then increase the bass control. If you want to increase the brightness of the sound, boost the treble control.

 

[shokhead]

hello once again,

I read so much about how one receiver sounds bright and another sounds warm or less bright.
could someone tell me if this is a verifiable fact, or is it just personal opinions???

If it is fact, could I get a list of what receivers are considered bright and what ones are considered warm.

thanks,
Frank

Bright all the time,for cd's,movies,radio,tv shows. My Denon is bright,or is it my B&W speakers. Both have been talked about over the years as bright. I know why my stuff sounds bright. Its me,my hearing is bad. Some cd's sound bright and others dont. Could be any of the above,me or the cd mix. Movies never do. - on the treble helps. I would thing i would blame speakers and room setup for bright problems first.

 

[newtoitall]

While I do greatly appreciate the time all have given to answer my questions, I find myself ever more confused about what is the right sound for a receiver, speaker, dvd-cd player or even the wireing that makes up a sound system.

A few people talk about all the facts that have been gleaned from their meters or sound analizing devices. It is my opinion that these devices can,t perceive all the information put forth by the audio components we use.

I enjoy playing a guitar, I've played many models over the years and all sounded very different. All were made of wood, all had 6 new strings, all were of the dreadnaught style and all were tuned the same. So why is there such a variety of sounds? Some differences can be explaned by the type of wood or glue used, or the type of finnish applied in the process, I don't know,I am not a Luthier, but I truly don't believe a few manufacturing differences could possibly explain so many differences in the tones that different guitars can produce.
I believe that our ears are much more sensitive than we give them credit for, and I don't think a meter can discern all the nuances that our ears can perceive. Perhaps this is why there are so many differences in opinions about audio products.

Given the above thoughts, would it be possible to get a few opinions on what receivers are considered bright and what are not so bright.

Thank you again for your time.
Frank

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

This forum always talks about bright vs warm receivers. Here's a thread:
http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/1/13443.html

 

[RMK!]

mtrycrafts,

You don't trust your own ears/brain...the very things you use when listening to music. That concept alone puts you on a different planet from most of us.

Most humans choose their possessions based at least partially on data if they are savvy, but ultimately, choices like the car they drive, the sofa they sit in and the shoes they wear are based on 'how it feels'. Do you have measuring gadgets for those kinds of purchases as well?

A few years ago I walked into an listening room at an audio dealer I had never been to. The room was rather dark and the system was playing a CD of English madrigals for soprano and lute. I got chills over my entire body and it wasn't based on what the audio hardware looked like or its price. The only delusion I experienced there was looking around the room for the two artists playing the music. That kind of reaction can’t be measured with a rat shack gizmo.

Music is another form of human communication. The quest for great audio equipment is to get as close to 'the real deal' as possible. It’s crazy enough that we use electronics to bring music into our home. Using more electronics to confirm what we hear and prefer is one sad concept.

To all, good job articulating your positions. There are folks here who are engineers (or at least wannabe engineers). They love the science, tweaking and measuring aspects of the hobby and the actual listening/watching seems secondary. I used to (in a previous life) build sailboats and I knew boat builders who had never been sailing. For them, the fun was in the building.

So I disagree with your “one sad concept” conclusion. Different strokes

Oh, and to the OP; Denon = medium bright, Marantz = not so bright and Pioneer = very bright... Sorry for the sarcasm but these Rorschach Test questions crack me up.

 

[WmAx]

I enjoy playing a guitar, I've played many models over the years and all sounded very different. All were made of wood, all had 6 new strings, all were of the dreadnaught style and all were tuned the same. So why is there such a variety of sounds?

The sound itself is easily analysed by studying a spectrograph derived from a high resolution FFT analysis. This will reveal the entire spectrum/harmonics and relative amplitudes. No mysteries.

I believe that our ears are much more sensitive than we give them credit for, and I don't think a meter can discern all the nuances that our ears can perceive. Perhaps this is why there are so many differences in opinions about audio products.

Given the above thoughts, would it be possible to get a few opinions on what receivers are considered bright and what are not so bright.

Thank you again for your time.
Frank

It might be interesting for you to read about what happens typically, as an example, when people with big claims of audiblity of amplifiers are put under the test to prove their positive claims. Read a very famous double blind test report of a low cost Yamaha integrated amplifier vs. mega-dollar hi-end monoblocks. The obvious differences in sound disappeared when the knowledge of the product I.D.s were hidden as to remove psychological bias:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=g:thl248767154d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=501fl6$ac3@oxy.rust.net&rnum=1

-Chris