Want another cassette deck...heart set on a Yamaha K1000...

[Tankini]

Then you should have went with Yamaha and not Teac because all 4 of my dbx2 machines work flawlessly with both Dolby C and dbx. Your bad experience doesn't make it a factual problem. Furthermore, I recorded on 3 out of the 4 dbx2 equipped decks and I can play them across all 4 decks without issue. Maybe Yamaha just implemented correctly as I'm extremely impressed with it.

I've recorded all genres of music with these decks including classical and the results were stellar. If Yamaha specced their machines to record 20 to 20KHz, then they can do it.

Getting my learning on. Wow! What a great thread!! I'm gonna tag alone some here. Thanks for sharing!

 

[highfigh]

Anyone using the VHS hi fi medium for recording? Supposed to have better specs than any cassette deck and I bet a lot of us might still have one laying around somewhere. I have a 2013 Toshiba and I'm thinking that I might have to set it up just to see if it meets the hype.

The sound from HVS or Beta HiFi is very good, but it's not noise-free. Go ahead- it may need belts, though- it's old enough. I would recommend removing the cover before you try to play a tape, to make sure the take-up reel is working- if not, your Toshiba is going to 'eat the tape'.

 

[davidscott]

The sound from HVS or Beta HiFi is very good, but it's not noise-free. Go ahead- it may need belts, though- it's old enough. I would recommend removing the cover before you try to play a tape, to make sure the take-up reel is working- if not, your Toshiba is going to 'eat the tape'.

Thanks, since don't have anything to record, I'll probably just use it as a backup DVD player. Curious, is the HVS HiFi better than a top off the line cassette deck in your opinion?

 

[highfigh]

Thanks, since don't have anything to record, I'll probably just use it as a backup DVD player. Curious, is the HVS HiFi better than a top off the line cassette deck in your opinion?

The slow speed of cassette tape is the main reason they don't perform well in the high frequencies. I have seen many that were exceptional (meaning, they could record/play the range of human hearing or better at -20dB VU, but none couold do it at 0VU. One issue with VHS is the way the tape path stresses the bottom edge of the tape, which happens to be where the synch signal is recorded and needs to be constant. If it has stretched too much, dropouts and tearing of the image occurs. I would assume it messes up the HiFi audio since that's encoded by the video head drum.

 

[Tankini]

The slow speed of cassette tape is the main reason they don't perform well in the high frequencies. I have seen many that were exceptional (meaning, they could record/play the range of human hearing or better at -20dB VU, but none couold do it at 0VU. One issue with VHS is the way the tape path stresses the bottom edge of the tape, which happens to be where the synch signal is recorded and needs to be constant. If it has stretched too much, dropouts and tearing of the image occurs. I would assume it messes up the HiFi audio since that's encoded by the video head drum.

Good post! Thanks for your input on tape players. Always wondered why some of my VHS tape looked wobbly at the bottom of it.

My thoughts were maybe wasn't wound back tight enough. After many plays looked like well, like you stated. Many VHS tapes Memorex as an example would state, won't tear or stretch on packaging.

Anyone knows the life span of VHS tapes? I can research it, still have VHS home shot movie's + recorded movies.

 

[TLS Guy]

Thanks, since don't have anything to record, I'll probably just use it as a backup DVD player. Curious, is the HVS HiFi better than a top off the line cassette deck in your opinion?

The VHS decks with the audio heads spinning at right angles across the video tracks, that use a multiplex system as way better than any cassette deck and actually can compete with digital media.

 

[TLS Guy]

Good post! Thanks for your input on tape players. Always wondered why some of my VHS tape looked wobbly at the bottom of it.

My thoughts were maybe wasn't wound back tight enough. After many plays looked like well, like you stated. Many VHS tapes Memorex as an example would state, won't tear or stretch on packaging.

Anyone knows the life span of VHS tapes? I can research it, still have VHS home shot movie's + recorded movies.

Depends entirely on the brand, and comes down to the binder (glue) they used to adhere the magnetic particles to the tape.

 

[highfigh]

The VHS decks with the audio heads spinning at right angles across the video tracks, that use a multiplex system as way better than any cassette deck and actually can compete with digital media.

The tracks are angled and interleaved with the video, not at a right angle, which would be almost impossible and would require a second head drum- the HiFi audio, being FM and requiring much higher frequency range than linear analog recording could ever provide, works conveniently with the rotating video head drum and tape. However, Dynamic range for HiFi video recorders was stated as >80dB, about 16dB less than PCM in 16 bit mode.

If that reads like a sales pitch, it was- I sold video recorders and cameras, as well as audio. The 80dB spec is from the manual for a Sony SL-2700.

 

[highfigh]

Good post! Thanks for your input on tape players. Always wondered why some of my VHS tape looked wobbly at the bottom of it.

My thoughts were maybe wasn't wound back tight enough. After many plays looked like well, like you stated. Many VHS tapes Memorex as an example would state, won't tear or stretch on packaging.

Anyone knows the life span of VHS tapes? I can research it, still have VHS home shot movie's + recorded movies.

The backing is usually polyester and can stretch, more or less depending on temperatur, condition of the transport mechanism and format.

Tapes of any kind should be rewound- the leader covers the tape and reduces oxidation.

 

[Tankini]

The backing is usually polyester and can stretch, more or less depending on temperatur, condition of the transport mechanism and format.

Tapes of any kind should be rewound- the leader covers the tape and reduces oxidation.

+ after a few views tape took up more space in the tape cartridge makes sense thanks.

 

[TLS Guy]

The tracks are angled and interleaved with the video, not at a right angle, which would be almost impossible and would require a second head drum- the HiFi audio, being FM and requiring much higher frequency range than linear analog recording could ever provide, works conveniently with the rotating video head drum and tape. However, Dynamic range for HiFi video recorders was stated as >80dB, about 16dB less than PCM in 16 bit mode.

If that reads like a sales pitch, it was- I sold video recorders and cameras, as well as audio. The 80dB spec is from the manual for a Sony SL-2700.

I over simplified it. It is actually more complicated than that. The video was typical helical scan like the ampex system. The audio was carried as an FM multiplex signal with the audio heads 90 degrees out of azimuth with the video heads and recorded at a different depth of the tape oxide layer. It was very close to CD quality, it had about 20 db less headroom, but full audio bandwidth.

 

[davidscott]

Well, this has been very informative. I guess if I ever want to get back into tape recording, I will at least try my VHS HiFi before buying a used cassette deck. I do have a couple of unopened TDK high def or something tapes lying around. Thanks guys.

 

[highfigh]

Well, this has been very informative. I guess if I ever want to get back into tape recording, I will at least try my VHS HiFi before buying a used cassette deck. I do have a couple of unopened TDK high def or something tapes lying around. Thanks guys.

Or, you could look for one of these- Elcasette, which had 1/4" tape, the cassette had most of the bulk of a Beta tape and aside from being playable in machines made by other companies that were involvled in this format, it wasn't compatible with ANYTHING else.

They became conversation pieces.

 

[Eppie]

How was dynamic range affected by tape speed? Most VHS machines recorded at SP or LP speeds (2hrs at SP and 6 hrs at LP for standard tapes). It made a noticeable difference in video quality but the "audio" VHS tapes that I made still sounded excellent at LP speeds.

It's not a format I recommend though. The sound quality is excellent but the tape format is bulky, seek time and FF/RW time is slow, they are susceptible to magnetic degradation and the heads do require cleaning as the tape particles rub off and stick to both the pinch rollers and record/play heads (although in small amounts). You'll also have a hard time finding someone to service the machine if it ever needs cleaning or repair. I only keep mine around as we have a few family tapes that need to be digitized and I used to collect anime on VHS. I will be selling those tapes off to collectors (yes, there are people that still collect anime tapes).

 

[davidscott]

Or, you could look for one of these- Elcasette, which had 1/4" tape, the cassette had most of the bulk of a Beta tape and aside from being playable in machines made by other companies that were involvled in this format, it wasn't compatible with ANYTHING else.

They became conversation pieces.

View attachment 71525

Sadly, I'm old enough to remember the El cassette. Back then I was rocking a Teac mid-range 2 head cassette deck. Later upgraded to a mid-range AIWA with Dolby C. I'm glad I got out.

 

[highfigh]

How was dynamic range affected by tape speed? Most VHS machines recorded at SP or LP speeds (2hrs at SP and 6 hrs at LP for standard tapes). It made a noticeable difference in video quality but the "audio" VHS tapes that I made still sounded excellent at LP speeds.

It's not a format I recommend though. The sound quality is excellent but the tape format is bulky, seek time and FF/RW time is slow, they are susceptible to magnetic degradation and the heads do require cleaning as the tape particles rub off and stick to both the pinch rollers and record/play heads (although in small amounts). You'll also have a hard time finding someone to service the machine if it ever needs cleaning or repair. I only keep mine around as we have a few family tapes that need to be digitized and I used to collect anime on VHS. I will be selling those tapes off to collectors (yes, there are people that still collect anime tapes).

Video needs high speed in order to look good, the HiFi audio was FM, so it didn't matter since FM/20Hz-20KHz is a piece of cake for a video recorder that's capable of much hihger frequencies.

It's hard to find people to service just about everything, at this point. The ones who did it are aging out or dying and young people aren't interested to the point where they'll go to school to learn it as a career.