Want another cassette deck...heart set on a Yamaha K1000...

3db

3db

Audioholic Overlord
With direct drive, 0.03%WF, SNR of -103 db, I gotta find one.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
With direct drive, 0.03%WF, SNR of -103 db, I gotta find one.
Wow!
I had no idea the SNR was down to -100dB!
IIRC, my Nak was in the mid -70's
What did they do beyond Dolby C?
Did they get better with Dbx compression system?
 
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3db

3db

Audioholic Overlord
The KX-1200 SNR is as follows
No NR better than 61db,
Dolby B, better than 69 db,
Dolby C, better than 77 db,
dbx, better than 95 db.

The KX800 which I have two off has the same specs as the KX1200 except that its dbx spec says greater than 90 db.

With dbx, there is no audible tape hiss.

There is no arguement from me that NAKs were good machines but they were far from the only game in town. Both my Yamaha models mentioned in this post had a frequency response of 20Hz to 18KHz with normal bias tape. The KX800 went up to 22KHz and the KX1200 went up as high as 23KHz with metal tape.
 
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davidscott

davidscott

Audioholic Samurai
I recall reading once that the more powerful the NR system the more easily the sound of the source is altered. Some listeners back in the day would actually listen through the hiss. Never had a dbx deck but a lot of people claimed they could hear it "breathe" as it manipulated the sound levels. Like I said I only went as far as dolby c and didn't hear any of that. That said I always had a cassette deck in the system until around 2010 or 2o. Can't imagine ever owning one again due mainly to the inconvenience and lack of quality blank tapes today.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
The KX-1200 SNR is as follows
No NR better than 61db,
Dolby B, better than 69 db,
Dolby C, better than 77 db,
dbx, better than 95 db.

The KX800 which I have two off has the same specs as the KX1200 except that its dbx spec says greater than 90 db.

With dbx, there is no audible tape hiss.

There is no arguement from me that NAKs were good machines but they were far from the only game in town. Both my Yamaha models mentioned in this post had a frequency response of 20Hz to 18KHz with normal bias tape. The KX800 went up to 22KHz and the KX1200 went up as high as 23KHz with metal tape.
dbx 2 is problematic with cassette machines. It is true that it is most effective at removing hiss. However dbx works very differently to Dolby.

Cassette tape machines are basically Lo-Fi devices, that need a lot of help to make them acceptable. The problem is that any frequency response errors are doubled. You really can not get even the best tape machines to operate to a good enough spec. However the modulation noise of cassette tape is amplified by dbx and that is a big problem.

Even Dolby C is s problem with tapes made on different machines.

My TEAC professional mastering deck has dbx 2. However I never really got satisfactory results with it, even after absolutely obsessional machine calibration.

To be honest the best overall results come from Dolby B recordings in my view. The only thing that can really be said about cassette machines is that they are better than 8 track!

I also have an off board dbx 2 code encoder, that also has the dbx 2 LP decoder. I do also have an off board Dolby B encoder and decoder. I do have both some Dolby B and dbx 2 encoded commercial pre-recorded tapes. Again dbx 2 is fickle, and I think the Dolby tapes are the better bet, although the dbx 2 at 7.5 ips four track open reel is much better than cassette. I have some dbx 2 LPs, and some of these are stunning. My turntables have a really flat FR.

I have a couple of dbx 1 encode/decoders for my open reel machines. dbx 1 is even more fastidious and requires the machines to be in perfect condition. It gives best results at 15 ips two track. That is the format of almost all my open reel masters from my recordings.

The bottom line is that I do not think it is worth the trouble looking for a dbx 2 cassette deck. Looking for a dbx 2 unit to use with your existing machine is also an option if you want to experiment.

You sound like an ideal candidate for a good open reel machine!
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Overlord
dbx 2 is problematic with cassette machines. It is true that it is most effective at removing hiss. However dbx works very differently to Dolby.

Cassette tape machines are basically Lo-Fi devices, that need a lot of help to make them acceptable. The problem is that any frequency response errors are doubled. You really can not get even the best tape machines to operate to a good enough spec. However the modulation noise of cassette tape is amplified by dbx and that is a big problem.

Even Dolby C is s problem with tapes made on different machines.

My TEAC professional mastering deck has dbx 2. However I never really got satisfactory results with it, even after absolutely obsessional machine calibration.

To be honest the best overall results come from Dolby B recordings in my view. The only thing that can really be said about cassette machines is that they are better than 8 track!

I also have an off board dbx 2 code encoder, that also has the dbx 2 LP decoder. I do also have an off board Dolby B encoder and decoder. I do have both some Dolby B and dbx 2 encoded commercial pre-recorded tapes. Again dbx 2 is fickle, and I think the Dolby tapes are the better bet, although the dbx 2 at 7.5 ips four track open reel is much better than cassette. I have some dbx 2 LPs, and some of these are stunning. My turntables have a really flat FR.

I have a couple of dbx 1 encode/decoders for my open reel machines. dbx 1 is even more fastidious and requires the machines to be in perfect condition. It gives best results at 15 ips two track. That is the format of almost all my open reel masters from my recordings.

The bottom line is that I do not think it is worth the trouble looking for a dbx 2 cassette deck. Looking for a dbx 2 unit to use with your existing machine is also an option if you want to experiment.

You sound like an ideal candidate for a good open reel machine!
Then you should have went with Yamaha and not Teac because all 4 of my dbx2 machines work flawlessly with both Dolby C and dbx. Your bad experience doesn't make it a factual problem. Furthermore, I recorded on 3 out of the 4 dbx2 equipped decks and I can play them across all 4 decks without issue. Maybe Yamaha just implemented correctly as I'm extremely impressed with it.

I've recorded all genres of music with these decks including classical and the results were stellar. If Yamaha specced their machines to record 20 to 20KHz, then they can do it.
 
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TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
Then you should have went with Yamaha and not Teac because all 4 of my dbx2 machines work flawlessly with both Dolby C and dbx. Your bad experience doesn't make it a factual problem. Furthermore, I recorded on 3 out of the 4 dbx2 equipped decks and I can play them across all 4 decks without issue. Maybe Yamaha just implemented correctly as I'm extremely impressed with it.

I've recorded all genres of music with these decks including classical and the results were stellar. If Yamaha specced their machines to record 20 to 20KHz, then they can do it.
My TEAC works fine on the same machine. The problems come with sending the tape to someone with a different machine. That was my situation invariably. Even Dolby C is not reliable for that. Dolby B is tolerant in the extreme.

Nothing is as good as open reel and dbx 1 though at 15 ips. That has a better dynamic range than CD. Until I started my 'museum" I only really used tape machines professionally not for pleasure. So they were workhorses of the pre digital era.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Overlord
My TEAC works fine on the same machine. The problems come with sending the tape to someone with a different machine. That was my situation invariably. Even Dolby C is not reliable for that. Dolby B is tolerant in the extreme.

Nothing is as good as open reel and dbx 1 though at 15 ips. That has a better dynamic range than CD. Until I started my 'museum" I only really used tape machines professionally not for pleasure. So they were workhorses of the pre digital era.
I do have a dual well Pioneer with dbx2 that I bought accidently on Ebay but it needs work. Its far from reference. I learned how to adjust the tape speed so I will perform that calibration. I will also try and align the heads by ear as I have no calibration equipment for that.
 

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