Vivid: Great or snake oil?

[mtrycrafts]

Nope, I think that YOU owe ME an apology.

However, I know better than to hold my breath for it.

I see little reason to continue to post in this thread, you chased off Dessayfan with your demands for your special brand of "science", and now you had to go get John E. to defend you, and he is ignoring your slander and BS to attack me.

Remember mtry, once you chase of all the newbies and neophytes, all you will have to post to are your camp followers, and that will get boring and dull, all of you agreeing that it all sounds the same.

Jon Risch

Jon, You need professional help, badly Seek it for your family's benefit. You are pathetic.

 

[Audioholics]

at a forum on a web site that has historically been extremely hostile to me personally,

Now, Jon - don't try to involve us in this squabble. We are openly hostile to unsubstantiated claims, not you personally - at least not until someone makes it personal. This thread got off topic quickly, unfortunately, but I assure you the site is not hostile to you in any way. If it were I'd have your name indexed on Google next to a picture of Daffy Duck...

The truth won't matter, science won't matter, I will be shouted down and slandered and denigrated with no real chance to defend myself, and ultimately, some excuse will be found to ban me anyway, the slander will be allowed to stand, and I will be shut out.

That, I have to say, is the most outlandish thing I've heard in a while. You're not a pariah unless you choose to make yourself one (i.e. have you ever been banned?) In the case of this thread, you haven't made any psientific statements.

Now, to address the bigger problem, to which Jon has a point. This has been a very hostile thread.

These are the most "open" forums you will likely find (though that is certainly subjective). To say "science" and "truth" won't matter on this site is laughable - to everyone who posts here.

Here's how I'll help: feel free to come back and address (scientifically or subjectively) any cable topic and you'll find a solid discourse. It may get heated, but it shouldn't get personal. If it does, PM me and I'll step in.

This personal bashing needs to stop from all, regardless of the histories.

I would suggest everyone take a breath and back down - there are plenty of technical "arguments" to be made regarding the differences you have in opinions of cable sonics and physics.

Jon: This is a great place to test any of your scientific theories and measurements/calculations. You certainly would have an abundance of peers to review your findings. Take any topic you like and we'll address it to an extent that you could publish a paper on it, guaranteed. If you can't bring it here and talk about it, that means it's probabaly not measureable (at all) and you would have good reason not to post (here). This is not so much a challenge as an obvious fact. 'Yes' men, good science does not make.

Mrty: You don't need to inform the world about Jon's supposed past - just address his comments here and now, assuming he chooses to continue to post on cable topics (which I hope he does).

This thread could have been a great place to debate 'Vivid' - snake oil or not. Instead it digressed quickly and is much less of a thread than it could have been.

Please argue the "science" not the "person". I dont want to moderate - its a waste of my time.

 

[jneutron]

Again, you make me laugh...

Sorry, but this is news to me. I have not lied about you, certainly not intentionally, and not to my knowledge either.

You have...it may indeed be unintentional, or it may not. That would depend on your ability to remember the past.

You have made claims on CA about me which are incorrect..

Has mtry filled you head with some sort of BS?

Mtry has nothing to do with my post about your behaviour. My post is entirely based on the history of your abusive attitudes.

I don't suppose that you read his false statements about me in this post:
http://www.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=29424#poststop
and several others.

I have read the posts from both you and Mtry. With no apriori knowledge, I am unable to determine the accuracy of either..

If you condone his behavior, and attack me for definding myself, then you are once again over the line and gone, and do not even know it.

I have condoned nothing, nor have I attacked you for defending yourself. You would be best served reading the posts more accurately, rather than shooting from the hip.

If you didn't know any better, well, it won't be the frist time you jumped in just to pile on.

As I stated, my post to you is a standalone...meaning, the factual information contained within does not require the presence of the posts preceding it.

My post was placed to inform the unwary and unknowing, that you present everything you have made up as being factual, you defend your silly little factoids by attacking others, and by touting the "WORLD OF HIGH END AUDIO", and the "inexperience of others" within that world.

While you have some rather excellent information on your website, the garbage that is also there will be indistinguishable from the good.

What does it take with you? There is no possible way of satisfying you, unless I agree with everything you say? I freely admit that I speculate about some of the physcis and science behind audio cable sonics. Yet this is not enough, somehow, I must do more than this, I need to prostrate myself and every other line, proclaim in bold letters whether the last sentence was a theory, or speculation, or a possibility among the realm of science?.

I have explained this several times to you...perhaps you will listen this time?

First, drop the attitude. You have, by your website, and your postings, shown that you have a very rudimentary understanding of electromagnetic field theory, physics, quantum theory, and electron transport. That in itself, is not in any way a failing, either intellectually, or otherwise.

What is at issue is your failing as an individual, to accept that others will know far more than you on the subjects, so you attack the bearers of that message, you attack their motives, their understandings, their experience. This you have done repeatedly to me, and I have seen that behaviour from you towards others.

You yourself fail to provide anywhere near the level of references and citations that you demand of others, you state things as if they were a fact, yet none of what you state is in the text books, or in any readily available journals that I am familair with, and I read a lot. You make claims, yet do not back them up, make statements about other's opinions, and theories and even their speculations (mostly commenting abnout me, as you do seem to have a personal bent, despite many protestations to the contrary) without providing so much as a web reference, a book citation or an article in "Physics Today". For whatever reason, you expect everyone else to believe you automatically, when your claims are NOT mainstream (there are very few actual pure research projects that involve audio), and are not a given, but YOUR personal interpretation of the physcis, as you know them, limited to your experiences with audio. That does not make for a newly minted physical law, accordring to John Escallier.

I have provided you references upon which to learn, by author, title, chapter, page, and paragraph, backing up what I state...and yet, you continue to claim that I have not..

I have done the research, done the building, done the tests, for that which I claim evidence..first case in point: the dual coax cable I designed, fabricated, and tested..and reported at prop, at cable, at AR, at DIY, and here. I have shown the derivation which resulted in my L*C=1034*DC, the ramifications on cable parameteric determination, and how anyone can very easily tailor a coaxial wire to any impedance, any inductance, any capacitance with very well defined constraints..it does not break the laws of physics, is very easy for everyone to use, and is absolutely testable. Second case in point...skin effect test by way of the Hawksford paper garbage..

As for being bent towards dissing you??? Look at your post here...filled with (shall we say) "anomolous statements". You still display only ad hominem attacks..and divert from the reality of the situation..

Let me again state that reality...

You, with your "guru-like" attitude, are by far, the worst thing to happen to high end audio in the last 20 years. You have led many, many people down your particular garden path, with sandbags, dielectric involvement, motor-generator, grain boundary, strand jumping....the list goes on..

You have, singly, been responsible for the stalling of the majority of continued learning in this field.

Vendors hype their product with tidbits pulled from your website, spouting huge amounts of hyperbole..magic, which you help support..

I've got news for you...it ain't magic..and the sooner you embrace the possibility that others can run rings around your understanding on specific topics, the better off you will be.

I do not need clowns explaining to me that I have to join the "world of real physics"...because those clowns cannot even pronounce many of the words I use at work.

I see little point in continuing to post replies here, if you are going to attack me for no reason, or just to defend mtry, at a forum on a web site that has historically been extremely hostile to me personally, I am only going to spin my wheels. The truth won't matter, science won't matter, I will be shouted down and slandered and denigrated with no real chance to defend myself, and ultimately, some excuse will be found to ban me anyway, the slander will be allowed to stand, and I will be shut out..

As is clear, I have not attacked you for no reason....there are very clear and specific reasons your behaviour must be pointed out.

I have not defended Mtry, so stop with that red herring.

Historically, you have always come in here guns abalazing, so your experience of hostility is a direct result of your attitude.

Banning????? In the last 3 years I have frequented the forums, I am aware of only one banning from any forum...and that is Steve Eddy at cables, and you were the person instrumental in that banning...why you choose to deflect that particularly heinous act by claiming you are worried about being banned, is your own demon.

mtry is worse than ever, and you are becoming more like him all the time.

I am unable to form an opinion as to Mtry's historical behaviour, as both of you seem to be referring to things before my time..

As for your statement about me...you have always been comfortable using broad brush strokes against all who dare speak out against your behaviour.

When you are capable of discussing entities in a reasonable and logical fashion without resorting to your historically consistent attacks against others, you will be dealt with civilly.

When you give nice, you will get that in return...I have told you that many, many times....and it is still true.

I have awaited for years now, your conversion to a more civil and reasonable being. I still wait.

It is still my contention that your experience and expertise is invaluable..I have no desire for you to just up and leave in a huff..that is the behaviour of a child.

Cheers, John

 

[Rip Van Woofer]

When I moved this thread to The Steam Vent, I hoped that either (a) y'all would take the hint or (b) the flame war would soon burn itself out.

Even Hawke stepping in hasn't had an effect.

Strong opinions are one thing and not to be discouraged, but the personal attacks and especially Mr. Risch's intemperate and ad hominem rants against people who were not even directly involved in this discussion are quite another. Tact and diplomacy might not be mtrycraft's strong suits, but Mr. Risch's behavior leaves me quite aghast. You have not exactly covered yourself with glory here, Mr. Risch.

I'm closing this thread. I probably should have earlier. Take it offline, guys.