3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
If you hate CDs this must be your time to celebrate because optical disc in general is just about dead. With that being said there will be a group that will bemoan the future, cherish and hold on to their CDs, DVDs, and Blu-rays.
Why would anyone want to get rid of their music/movie collections?
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Spartan
Hipster to me might be a guy with a pony tail, or even worse, a bun. Plus possibly an earring or two and a tie-die shirt. And he drives an electric car or perhaps a BMW. I don't fit the bill to any of the above. I just hate CD's unless it's a collectable.
I assume the worst then is someone that drives an EV BMW ?. Seriously though, I agree when it comes to the current BMW's with their ugly as hell front end. I will say my 2017 X5 is the best DD I've ever owned.
 
Squishman

Squishman

Audioholic General
20 years ago, I sold a Badfinger "Ass" CD on ebay for $202. Then several years later they remastered and re-issued it. Around the same time, I also sold a pre-Badfinger The Ivey's CD of "Maybe Tomorrow" I think I got $60 for it. Apple re-issued that too. But that one, I bought on vinyl. Double vinyl. They put the CD bonus tracks on the second 12" 45 rpm record. It is an AAD record, but that's fine. Better than buying a VG+ OP copy for $750! That record is still great. Badfinger rocked well, even as the Iveys.

Oh btw, did anyone else know that the very first Apple CD that had an Apple on the disc (instead of just text) was a Badfinger CD? It was a greatest hits compilation.
 
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Auditor55

Auditor55

Audioholic General
Why would anyone want to get rid of their music/movie collections?
Yeah, man, I keep my CDs mostly for car audio. I rarely spin them in my Blu-ray players. I rarely spin CDs, DVDs, or Blu-rays in my player. I don't purchase CDs anymore as I ripped most of them into files. I listen to music in my car on my iPod. Don't like Bluetooth car audio streamed from my Android phone. I purchase about 1 to 2 Blu-rays a year, and 90% of my content is streamed.
 
NINaudio

NINaudio

Audioholic Samurai
Hipster to me might be a guy with a pony tail, or even worse, a bun. Plus possibly an earring or two and a tie-die shirt. And he drives an electric car or perhaps a BMW. I don't fit the bill to any of the above. I just hate CD's unless it's a collectable.
In NYC, hipsters drink specialty brew coffee, ride single speed bicycles, and buy records instead of CD's. BMW's don't enter the hipster label.
 
Auditor55

Auditor55

Audioholic General
In NYC, hipsters drink specialty brew coffee, ride single speed bicycles, and buy records instead of CD's. BMW's don't enter the hipster label.
What about beards man buns :)? Anyway, the EV BMWs might be more of an LA or West Coast hipster thing.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
Yeah, man, I keep my CDs mostly for car audio. I rarely spin them in my Blu-ray players. I rarely spin CDs, DVDs, or Blu-rays in my player. I don't purchase CDs anymore as I ripped most of them into files. I listen to music in my car on my iPod. Don't like Bluetooth car audio streamed from my Android phone. I purchase about 1 to 2 Blu-rays a year, and 90% of my content is streamed.
I do rip my CDs to my media library but I still buy vinyl, CD, and BluRays. My 4K version of Top Gun Maverick on disk is far better quality than what I got on Netflix. I dont subscribe to a music service because I'm dont paying for yet another streaming service.
 
davidscott

davidscott

Audioholic Spartan
Haven't purchased a cd or lp in over 3 years. I do have a healthy collection of both, so I'm set with my WIIM streamer that I listen to most of the time these days.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
My experience with purchasing new vinyl that its hit or miss these days. I can honestly say that most of my new vinyl purchases have been good with low noise floor and excellent production. The problem is that TLS locks himself into one specific genre of music which is his loss really. The problem with the classical genre is that there is so much poor mastering out there. Im still looking for a good recording of Beethoven's Piano Concerto No 5 having picked up 2 poorly mastered productions on CD.
I don't know where you get that idea. Like in all things there is bad mastering, but in my experience it is not common.

I have not bought any new vinyl for about 20 years now. I have a huge collection of vinyl going back to 1954. Almost all of it is in excellent playing condition. When playing many discs I doubt you would tell it from CD. The fact is digital media is superior. However with the rise of high quality streaming there is less need to purchase hard discs, though I do buy some and ordered one from the UK a couple of days ago from Signum Classics. I am not a fan of downloading CDs from the NET. It is often tricky to get them to play seamlessly. Downloading albums is much more attuned to to the pop culture than the classical music lover.

What I do listen and watch, especially listen and watch is on my subscription sites.

In this I would especially site the Berlin Philharmonic Digital Concert Hall. This started 15 years ago, and I have been a member for 12 of those years when I built my first HTPC. However they have all their concerts archived in AV going back to the Krajan years. Their archive is massive, and all available to members. Their streams are lossless audio and 4K video. I think their 4K video quality is better than any other I know of. They now stream in 7.1.4 Dolby Atmos. There is a week or two delay for the Atmos version to appear. This season they have really got the hang of it. Because Dolby are obtuse about the streaming of Atmos audio the level is about 8 to 10 db lower than the non Atmos stream. Part of this is that the dynamic range of these stream is colossal. Honestly the sound is now really, really close to being in the Hall. This system really is object based, and you localize the instruments really well, not only horizontally, but vertically, and with depth. You can clearly hear the tiered chorus in the choral works. The other benefit is that the bass is even better defined. Also with this approach massed strings sound incredibly natural.
This year we had a bonus. For and extra $15.00 you could purchase two Atmos BDs. All the works are in the archive, and I really can't tell the difference in SQ or PQ between the discs and the stream. I think this is a major achievement.

I think this also speaks to the mastering issue. "Back in the day", the major labels had long career engineers like John Culshaw of Decca for instance.
Now they tend to use jobbers. So there are duds. The minor labels are more often than not engineered by their owners, who tend to be audio enthusiasts.
I have to say, that among the major labels I find that past offerings tend to outclass the newer offerings from the major labels.

So now the major orchestras are engaging career long term engineers. Obviously the BPO come to mind, but the Detroit Symphony now have there own AV mastering sweet and their streams are of very high quality.

High quality AV can also be found on Met Player, from the Metropolitan opera and Medici TV based out of France. I have access to the BBC and their audio quality and mastering takes a back seat to no one.

As regards to your complaint about not being able to find a good recording of the Beethoven 5th Piano Concerto, that is ridiculous. They just abound. There is an excellent recording from our own Minnesota Orchestra on BIS with Osmo Vanska and Yevgeny Sudbin. BIS-SACD-1758. It is a hybrid multichannel SACD and will play on any player.

If you are still having audio quality issues, then your speakers are not as good as you think they are. Not only must speakers have good measurements especially FR, but they need a lot of mid band resources, and wide dispersion, and need to be able to cast a sound stage behind the speakers.

Luckily I don't have to design for rock, but engineers who do seem to like my speakers, but that was never a consideration to please them.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
I don't know where you get that idea. Like in all things there is bad mastering, but in my experience it is not common.

I have not bought any new vinyl for about 20 years now. I have a huge collection of vinyl going back to 1954. Almost all of it is in excellent playing condition. When playing many discs I doubt you would tell it from CD. The fact is digital media is superior. However with the rise of high quality streaming there is less need to purchase hard discs, though I do buy some and ordered one from the UK a couple of days ago from Signum Classics. I am not a fan of downloading CDs from the NET. It is often tricky to get them to play seamlessly. Downloading albums is much more attuned to to the pop culture than the classical music lover.

What I do listen and watch, especially listen and watch is on my subscription sites.

In this I would especially site the Berlin Philharmonic Digital Concert Hall. This started 15 years ago, and I have been a member for 12 of those years when I built my first HTPC. However they have all their concerts archived in AV going back to the Krajan years. Their archive is massive, and all available to members. Their streams are lossless audio and 4K video. I think their 4K video quality is better than any other I know of. They now stream in 7.1.4 Dolby Atmos. There is a week or two delay for the Atmos version to appear. This season they have really got the hang of it. Because Dolby are obtuse about the streaming of Atmos audio the level is about 8 to 10 db lower than the non Atmos stream. Part of this is that the dynamic range of these stream is colossal. Honestly the sound is now really, really close to being in the Hall. This system really is object based, and you localize the instruments really well, not only horizontally, but vertically, and with depth. You can clearly hear the tiered chorus in the choral works. The other benefit is that the bass is even better defined. Also with this approach massed strings sound incredibly natural.
This year we had a bonus. For and extra $15.00 you could purchase two Atmos BDs. All the works are in the archive, and I really can't tell the difference in SQ or PQ between the discs and the stream. I think this is a major achievement.

I think this also speaks to the mastering issue. "Back in the day", the major labels had long career engineers like John Culshaw of Decca for instance.
Now they tend to use jobbers. So there are duds. The minor labels are more often than not engineered by their owners, who tend to be audio enthusiasts.
I have to say, that among the major labels I find that past offerings tend to outclass the newer offerings from the major labels.

So now the major orchestras are engaging career long term engineers. Obviously the BPO come to mind, but the Detroit Symphony now have there own AV mastering sweet and their streams are of very high quality.

High quality AV can also be found on Met Player, from the Metropolitan opera and Medici TV based out of France. I have access to the BBC and their audio quality and mastering takes a back seat to no one.

As regards to your complaint about not being able to find a good recording of the Beethoven 5th Piano Concerto, that is ridiculous. They just abound. There is an excellent recording from our own Minnesota Orchestra on BIS with Osmo Vanska and Yevgeny Sudbin. BIS-SACD-1758. It is a hybrid multichannel SACD and will play on any player.

If you are still having audio quality issues, then your speakers are not as good as you think they are. Not only must speakers have good measurements especially FR, but they need a lot of mid band resources, and wide dispersion, and need to be able to cast a sound stage behind the speakers.

Luckily I don't have to design for rock, but engineers who do seem to like my speakers, but that was never a consideration to please them.
Wow TLS. Leave it to you F things up in interpreting my message. Can you wrap your mind around the fact of being once bitten, twice shy? I bought two CDs of Beethoven's 5th piano concerto and both were of poor quality. Now I'm shy about attempting a 3rd time. The fact that you argue against the fact that there is a lot of poor recording/mastering of classical music is really quite asinine. It exists and in spades. Perhaps I don't know where to look for the better recordings. The good recordings I do have in classical music really do shine on my system. My speakers are very revealing and don't hide poor recording/mastering of an album regardless of genre.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Wow TLS. Leave it to you F things up in interpreting my message. Can you wrap your mind around the fact of being once bitten, twice shy? I bought two CDs of Beethoven's 5th piano concerto and both were of poor quality. Now I'm shy about attempting a 3rd time. The fact that you argue against the fact that there is a lot of poor recording/mastering of classical music is really quite asinine. It exists and in spades. Perhaps I don't know where to look for the better recordings. The good recordings I do have in classical music really do shine on my system. My speakers are very revealing and don't hide poor recording/mastering of an album regardless of genre.
Your experience and mine then are very different. I doubt I have a handful of poorly mastered recordings in my whole collection.

So, what are these recordings you find to be poorly mastered? What is their provenance? Poor recording/mastering of classical music does not exist in spades. If that is your experience, then it is not the recordings. What are these and what labels are they on?

If what you say is true, then I would have a boat load of poor recordings and I don't. A few were recorded and mastered by myself and they also play fine, both LPs and CDs.
 
Eppie

Eppie

Audioholic Ninja
@TLS Guy - I installed the Berlin Philharmonic app on my NVidia Shield Pro but have not subscribed to the service yet as I wanted to first hear how the ATMOS streams sounded. I tried a few of the demo recordings but none were in ATMOS, or at least did not register as ATMOS on the Shield. You mentioned that the ATMOS versions take a week or two to appear. Does that mean that the demo tracks on the main page are all stereo or non-ATMOS surround? Is that something you could verify for me?
 
Eppie

Eppie

Audioholic Ninja
I just bought a German-pressed White Album. One of the most superior sounding pressings ever made based on some research I looked into. Very nice price and very reasonable shipping cost from Germany. In VG+ condition. He posted clear photos. I did not even detect spindle trails on the label. Cover is also VG+ with poster and photos.
I still have my copy of the White Album on white vinyl. One of my prize pressings but not worth particularly much as they made quite a few of them. Pretty decent sounding release for the time. One of my favorite Beatles albums.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
@TLS Guy - I installed the Berlin Philharmonic app on my NVidia Shield Pro but have not subscribed to the service yet as I wanted to first hear how the ATMOS streams sounded. I tried a few of the demo recordings but none were in ATMOS, or at least did not register as ATMOS on the Shield. You mentioned that the ATMOS versions take a week or two to appear. Does that mean that the demo tracks on the main page are all stereo or non-ATMOS surround? Is that something you could verify for me?
I can't find those Demo streams. I think it is because the website recognizes all my computers right away and knows I am a member. Nvidia Shield Pro is not on their list of supported devices. That does not mean it isn't, so you will have to ask BPO.

One way you will know is by the round spoked wheel in the lower right of the screen under the item/time bar. If you don't see that, then you can't get Atmos.

To get Atmos you have to click on the icon. Then a screen appears, for Stereo and Immersive audio. For some reason you have to click on stereo first, and then the immersive audio underneath.

I use the LG app on the TV and eARC, as Atmos from the BPO is not supported in Windows.

I am glad to say it works fine and there is no difference between the stream and the BD Atmos discs. The level of the Atmos stream is lower than the stereo stream by 8 to 10db. So your rig needs a good SNR. That is Dolby's fault and not the BPO's
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Wow TLS. Leave it to you F things up in interpreting my message. Can you wrap your mind around the fact of being once bitten, twice shy? I bought two CDs of Beethoven's 5th piano concerto and both were of poor quality. Now I'm shy about attempting a 3rd time. The fact that you argue against the fact that there is a lot of poor recording/mastering of classical music is really quite asinine. It exists and in spades. Perhaps I don't know where to look for the better recordings. The good recordings I do have in classical music really do shine on my system. My speakers are very revealing and don't hide poor recording/mastering of an album regardless of genre.
I played that recording I recommended in the AV room last night and it sounded superb. It sounded just like Orchestra Hall Minneapolis.

I have it playing now in stereo in my family room in stereo, 2.2. I am playing them on my three way speakers ported with KEF B139 bass, Dynaudio D76 high power dome midrange and a planar ribbon tweeter. Crossovers at 400 Hz and 4KHz. This would be my rig closest to yours, although the speakers would be a lot more potent.

The paradox is that rigs for classical music require much more power reserves than speakers for program in the popular domain. Not only that but the frequency bands where power is required are significantly different. The reason is that the dynamic range of that type of classical program is so high. So speakers and amps easily get run out of gas.

There are major reasons why classical music aficionados generally opt for more potent rigs. This is confirmed in my conversations with dealers I am good friends with.

I can be certain that unless you are shopping items from heavily discounted budget labels, yourissue is NOT due to poor mastering.

Frankly the last pictures of you speakers would leave me to believe they would have significant distortion on a lot of classical material at power.

There is a good reason all my speakers are capable of linear high output and supplied by powerful amps.
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Spartan
@TLS Guy - I installed the Berlin Philharmonic app on my NVidia Shield Pro but have not subscribed to the service yet as I wanted to first hear how the ATMOS streams sounded. I tried a few of the demo recordings but none were in ATMOS, or at least did not register as ATMOS on the Shield. You mentioned that the ATMOS versions take a week or two to appear. Does that mean that the demo tracks on the main page are all stereo or non-ATMOS surround? Is that something you could verify for me?
It should work as Android 9 is the minimum and I believe the Shield Pro is 11.0. Try a free trial subscription for a week and see if it works. The BPO Atmos tracks are nice. At least, they are using my Apple TV 4K or LG TV. Oh, and they also work on the Fire Cube Gen 3.
 
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3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
I played that recording I recommended in the AV room last night and it sounded superb. It sounded just like Orchestra Hall Minneapolis.

I have it playing now in stereo in my family room in stereo, 2.2. I am playing them on my three way speakers ported with KEF B139 bass, Dynaudio D76 high power dome midrange and a planar ribbon tweeter. Crossovers at 400 Hz and 4KHz. This would be my rig closest to yours, although the speakers would be a lot more potent.

The paradox is that rigs for classical music require much more power reserves than speakers for program in the popular domain. Not only that but the frequency bands where power is required are significantly different. The reason is that the dynamic range of that type of classical program is so high. So speakers and amps easily get run out of gas.

There are major reasons why classical music aficionados generally opt for more potent rigs. This is confirmed in my conversations with dealers I am good friends with.

I can be certain that unless you are shopping items from heavily discounted budget labels, yourissue is NOT due to poor mastering.

Frankly the last pictures of you speakers would leave me to believe they would have significant distortion on a lot of classical material at power.

There is a good reason all my speakers are capable of linear high output and supplied by powerful amps.
What speakers are those TLS? Have you looked at the specs for my speakers or is this another broadside generalization on your part just to brag up your system?? Like I said before , good classical recordings sound really good through my systems, mediocre ones sound mediocre and bad ones sound bad. If good recordings sound good, it cant be the system its played through. Please dont comment about popular music as this is a genre you know nothing about.
 
Eppie

Eppie

Audioholic Ninja
I can't find those Demo streams. I think it is because the website recognizes all my computers right away and knows I am a member. Nvidia Shield Pro is not on their list of supported devices. That does not mean it isn't, so you will have to ask BPO.

One way you will know is by the round spoked wheel in the lower right of the screen under the item/time bar. If you don't see that, then you can't get Atmos.

To get Atmos you have to click on the icon. Then a screen appears, for Stereo and Immersive audio. For some reason you have to click on stereo first, and then the immersive audio underneath.

I use the LG app on the TV and eARC, as Atmos from the BPO is not supported in Windows.

I am glad to say it works fine and there is no difference between the stream and the BD Atmos discs. The level of the Atmos stream is lower than the stereo stream by 8 to 10db. So your rig needs a good SNR. That is Dolby's fault and not the BPO's
Thanks for the info. There is a dedicated BPO app for the Shield so I'll give it another go.
 

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