WmAx

WmAx

Audioholic Samurai
WMAX..Any thoughts on this? I guess its a good platform for evaluating cartridges and tonearms.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10067309-1.html


http://www.insidebayarea.com/ci_10678760?source=most_emailed
Well, it would be nice to have a multi-mount table for arm evaluation. But for accurate arm evaluation, one would needs to use the same cartridge one each arm(and adjust arm mass with add on mass if needed to get an similar arm mass/cartridge compliance resonant frequency for each compared set) and record the same tracks into an ADC, then synch/level match the recordings and evaluate with ABX software. These last steps are rarely performed, and most evaluations are next to worthless sighted ones.

That table seems way over priced. :) While you do need to spend considerably more to get a high quality mechanical system as compared to a digital/electronic device, I wager there are still points where in excess you are wasting your money compared to a wise lower priced purchase. I think that one can assembly a near perfect turntable system(system meaning turntable, motor and tone arm) for $1500-$2000 range with careful selection and that spending more will probably be a waste of money.

-Chris
 
WmAx

WmAx

Audioholic Samurai
I am very curious about the SQ of this new Guns N' Roses album. Axle Rose has been so insanely OCD about the music being perfect.... that it has been in production for over a decade or so..... but does his OCD end at only the music.... allowing the same crap excuse for a recording to be released as most other bands do today?

-Chris
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Overlord
I am very curious about the SQ of this new Guns N' Roses album. Axle Rose has been so insanely OCD about the music being perfect.... that it has been in production for over a decade or so..... but does his OCD end at only the music.... allowing the same crap excuse for a recording to be released as most other bands do today?

-Chris
I can't answer that question. I guess we'll need to find a guinee pig to purchase it and give us their impression..


OPn another note, do you have Queen's 1st album on vinyl? If so what do you think of its recording quality?
 
jliedeka

jliedeka

Audioholic General
I just got Metallica's Death Magnetic on vinyl. It's pretty good. I've heard it's not as obnoxiously compressed as the CD. Since I haven't heard the CD, I can't comment. It's metal so of course it's compressed.

Jim
 
WmAx

WmAx

Audioholic Samurai
For some reason AH has banned the site. ???

Anyways, for those that want to read it, it's:

www[dot]audaud[dot]com/article.php?ArticleID=5148

The reviewer considers an almost 2k table to be 'entry level' - ?? I guess one must spend 50-100K for one of those super exotic tables to have an 'actual' high end/high performance table? LOL

-Chris
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
But for accurate arm evaluation, one would need to use the same cartridge on each arm ([I/]and adjust arm mass with add on mass if needed to get an similar arm mass/cartridge compliance resonant frequency for each compared set[/I]) and record the same tracks into an ADC, then synch/level match the recordings and evaluate with ABX software. These last steps are rarely performed, and most evaluations are next to worthless sighted ones.
Is that like taping a nickel or quarter to the tonearm when it wouldn't track a record?:D

I had a customer who needed two turntables and cartridges, so he could listen to the test pressings of his album. He called me and said they didn't sound very much alike, so I offered to bring more of the same model cartridge to his house, so they could be compared. It took about 8 tries before finding a second that was close enough. It's not that he bought high end gear but he wanted something that would be likely used by people buying mainstream recordings, at the time, and he was surprised by the variation in sound quality. A couple sounded really bad, so they were returned.

I'm not going to say that one model should have a wide range in sound but I'm also pretty sure it's impossible to make two (or more) cartridges that can be said to sound identical.

If vinyl will make a comeback, either the price will be higher than many will pay or the quality will suffer because mastering for a vinyl record is different from mastering for CD/DVD. The added studio/mastering facility time will really eat into all of those big record company advances.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Overlord
For some reason AH has banned the site. ???

Anyways, for those that want to read it, it's:

www[dot]audaud[dot]com/article.php?ArticleID=5148

The reviewer considers an almost 2k table to be 'entry level' - ?? I guess one must spend 50-100K for one of those super exotic tables to have an 'actual' high end/high performance table? LOL

-Chris
I ignore the guys who spout off on the high end esoteric stuff. I'm quite happy with my $600.00 turntable and I don't feel a need to upgrade from that.
 
WmAx

WmAx

Audioholic Samurai
Is that like taping a nickel or quarter to the tonearm when it wouldn't track a record?:D



I'm not going to say that one model should have a wide range in sound but I'm also pretty sure it's impossible to make two (or more) cartridges that can be said to sound identical.
Well, some FR difference is to be expected between samples, though it should be minor if QC is high. You allude to gear that a common consumer would use - does this mean he was using low cost cartridges? I would not expect QC to be as high on a $60 cartridge, as compared to a much more costly unit. Keep in mind that one can easily employ DSP correction hardware and measure each sample and program a correction curve as compensation. Transparent high quality DSP hardware is readily available today. Behringer makes a couple of very high quality devices suitable for the purpose, that are around only $300 each, such as the DCX2496 and DEQ2496.

Another (cheaper and MOST accurate) way is to use the same cartridge and install it on both tables(take care of the mass issue, of course) and record the output from each one to a high quality sound card. Then level adjust and time synch the recordings with an audio editor. Now use a software ABX program to blind test the samples.

-Chris
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
Well, some FR difference is to be expected between samples, though it should be minor if QC is high. You allude to gear that a common consumer would use - does this mean he was using low cost cartridges? I would not expect QC to be as high on a $60 cartridge, as compared to a much more costly unit.

Another (cheaper and MOST accurate) way is to use the same cartridge and install it on both tables(take care of the mass issue, of course) and record the output from each one to a high quality sound card. Then level adjust and time synch the recordings with an audio editor. Now use a software ABX program to blind test the samples.

-Chris
Most accurate, yes, but harder to do an A/B comparison on the fly. We synched the turntables and switched between them to decide which sounded better. The two cartridges we decided on were actually very close, and we listened to quite a few albums to verify this.

They were about $100 list price, which means they sold for about $60 and unless a comparison is being made, it's usually not going to be noticed as easily, except for the fact that they intentionally had track 1 EQd and placed the same, as a reference. He used a Niles A/B switch and while it would be a bad thing to do if he had one TT in one Phono in with the switch on only TT, since they were both running through it, it was a fair test. While it wasn't meant for purists, it wasn't just a casual test. He has a good number of Grammy Awards for his production work and owns a studio in the San Francisco area. It was interesting to be asked for opinions on slight changes made to the mixes, too.

"Keep in mind that one can easily employ DSP correction hardware and measure each sample and program a correction curve as compensation. Transparent high quality DSP hardware is readily available today. Behringer makes a couple of very high quality devices suitable for the purpose, that are around only $300 each, such as the DCX2496 and DEQ2496."

So much for keeping the signal path short and simple.
 
poutanen

poutanen

Full Audioholic
I ignore the guys who spout off on the high end esoteric stuff. I'm quite happy with my $600.00 turntable and I don't feel a need to upgrade from that.
+1 I'm happy with my used Kenwood KD-3070 Direct Drive :rolleyes:
 
poutanen

poutanen

Full Audioholic
Heard on the radio this morning that the new U2 album is to be released on vinyl. :D
 
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