Velodyne / SVS / Hsu - or other subwoofer?

[KeLLoGsX]

Hello!
I'm looking into getting a new set of 5.1 speakers for my home cinema. Actually I don't have such a system currently, sold it a couple of years ago but now I'm ready to take it on again.

The room that will be used is about 3300 cubic foot. But it will be openly divided into one dining- and one A/V-part, to confuse it even more the kitchen is right behind the A/V-part whithout much of a divider.

My current pick of speaker system is leaning towards JMLabs: 2 x Sib XXL (front), 1 x Sib XL (center) and 2 x Sib (surround). I have still not decided for sure but my main cocern right now is to find a great sub since it's a pretty important piece. My pricerange is about $700. I recently talked to a local dealer who recommended Velodyne DLS-5000R, but then I have been searching and have found two other interesting brands: SVS SB12-Plus/20-39 PCi and HSU VTF-3 MK3.

No, what do you have to say about these or others that you feel like recommending.

links to subs:

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-3-mk3.html
http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-cyl-pcpow2.cfm
http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-sb12plus.cfm
http://www.velodyne.com/velodyne/products/product.aspx?ID=11&sid=466n938f

//KeLLoGsx

 

[billy p]

In that price range the velos are not as competitive as some of the others you've mentioned. IMO you would have to look at the DD series and they're priced way above your current budget.

Just my 2 cents, Billy p
Albeit, if I had the money the DD15/18 would be my choice!

 

[jinjuku]

The HSU has the ability to go the lowest. The 15" on the Velodyne is enticing. There is no replacement for displacement.

Hard to say w/o doing a comparison though. All things being equal however, you should be get more for your buck @ HSU or SVS since they are an ID company (internet direct). That or they keep more profit. One of the two .

I don't think you can go 'wrong' with any of the subs. I would most likely pick the HSU since it is designed to run at either 18Hz bass extension or 25Hz w/o. I am not sure on the SVS or Velodyne. Are either of them ported and can you get a port plug if they are?

 

[mike c]

nix the sb12 from your choices.

the velo I would hazard a guess to be the loudest (tuned high with a big woofer and enclosure)

the svs having the smallest footprint and the most fans on the net

the hsu being the ugliest .... just kidding ... the hsu will be the most flexible with the tuning options and all.

 

[Buckeye_Nut]

My 2 cents.....

I'd squeeze out an extra $200 and get the PB12-plus because it's a whole lot more subwoofer than all of the above for only a minimal additional cost.

 

[Gimpy Ric]

I've never had the pleasure of hearing or feeling an SVS, but I know they are strong and look good.

But I'm in the HSU Research camp. For $99.00 get the Turbo now, instead of paying $199.00 later. That gives you even more tuning options, and output.

Now, would you like that in Black or Cherry?

 

[Sheep]

The HSU has the ability to go the lowest. The 15" on the Velodyne is enticing. There is no replacement for displacement.

Hard to say w/o doing a comparison though. All things being equal however, you should be get more for your buck @ HSU or SVS since they are an ID company (internet direct). That or they keep more profit. One of the two .

I don't think you can go 'wrong' with any of the subs. I would most likely pick the HSU since it is designed to run at either 18Hz bass extension or 25Hz w/o. I am not sure on the SVS or Velodyne. Are either of them ported and can you get a port plug if they are?

Uh, the 15inch diameter isn't the only displacement. Like a car, you don't measure the displacement by just the bore. That woofer is completely inferior and I would scratch it from the list.

SheepStar

 

[Warpdrv]

Stretch your budget a bit, and get the best sub you can, as you have a medium size room...

B-Stock page on SVS's site has a 16-46PC-Plus for a good price. I think that would be a great sub for that size room...

If you spend just a bit more then your budget, you will be less likely to have upgradeitus down the road...

I bought a Plus/2 for my huge room, and soon after bought a second sub.
Trust us, it will be worth the extra $$

The SB12 plus is a sealed sub, and if your looking for HT use, it only goes down to 25hz, not bad, but not the earth shattering LFE machine you might be looking for...

I agree with the others here... drop the Velodyne and the SVS SB12plus.

HSU makes a great sub that goes plenty deep but is not as pretty as the SVS boxes, but your looking at SVS cylinders, so maybe looks are not that big a deal to you.

 

[jinjuku]

Uh, the 15inch diameter isn't the only displacement. Like a car, you don't measure the displacement by just the bore. That woofer is completely inferior and I would scratch it from the list.

SheepStar

I don't measure displacement in cars by the bore either. I am sure the Velodyne is a competent sub in this grouping. I personally think that HSU is an engineering outfit that is out to give the consumer the better product. I am not sure how much Velodyne sells on: Reputation/Actual quality of product/Marketing. I do know that they have a good reputation and a good following.

The Velodyne has good #'s like the others listed. #'s are just that. Doesn't mean that they are good or bad. That's why you need to demo.

I don't know if I would go as far and say what you said about the Velodyne. I haven't A/B'd any combination of these subs, have you?

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

In that grouping, I would pick the VTF-3 MK3 hands down.

Although you haven't listed it, the PB12-NSD would be my second choice over the others mentioned.

You should check daily the B stock at HSU and SVS for deals. eD A5-300 is also in your price range, as is the Outlaw LFM-1 Plus.

Check out post 1 on this thread. It's probably the most comprehensive rating of home subs to date:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=768150&page=32&pp=60
Official Craigsub rankings thread - AVS Forum

 

[KeLLoGsX]

Great response, thanx! It looks as if it's up to either Hsu or SVS (not SB12). I guess I might be able to stretch my budget regarding SVS and get the Plus but with Hsu I seem to get more value. The only downside to those brands is the extra international shipping cost and tax I'll have to pay since I live in Sweden.

I'll be sure to look over the B-stock items..... if I can find any?

//KeLLoGsX

 

[mike c]

first off, what's the voltage over there?
second, don't compare the SRP's of the internet price with the landed cost of for example the velodyne over there, you have to compare prices as they come to your door...

 

[KeLLoGsX]

first off, what's the voltage over there?
second, don't compare the SRP's of the internet price with the landed cost of for example the velodyne over there, you have to compare prices as they come to your door...

The voltage here is 220V but I reckon both Hsu ad Svs are able to make such modifications.
My best value pick right now is Hsu VTF3-MK3, including shipping and tax I'll be looking at a total cost of about $1150. Compairing that cost to a sub bought here in Sweden would get me these:
Velodyne SPL 800i
Rel T2
Kef HTB2
Audiovector K-Sub Super
Audio Pro Avanti SW 500 DC
Sunfire D10

I haven't checked any of them out yet.

//KeLLoGsX

 

[mike c]

as of the moment, there are no 220v SVS cylinders.
220v models are : PB12NSD, PB12NSD/2, PB10NSD, PB12Plus, PB12Plus/2.

how much would the CHT-15R cost? (the DLS-5000R is the 110v version of the CHT-15R)

 

[KeLLoGsX]

It was wrong of me to compare the others with DLS-5000R (CHT-15R), it should instead be DLS-4000R which is in the same pricerange.
//KeLLoGsX

 

[KeLLoGsX]

This will be my very first sub actually but still I know its importance in a ht system therefor I want to do a thorough research to be able to get the most out of my budget.

I'm going for a trip to one of my local hifi-stores and listen to some subs. What should I be thinking of, what are my main concerns and questions and when should I not listen to the salesman?

//KeLLoGsX

 

[GlocksRock]

If you wanted a SVS cylinder sub, you could get a passive one and use a separate amp.

 

[jinjuku]

This will be my very first sub actually but still I know its importance in a ht system therefor I want to do a thorough research to be able to get the most out of my budget.

I'm going for a trip to one of my local hifi-stores and listen to some subs. What should I be thinking of, what are my main concerns and questions and when should I not listen to the salesman?

//KeLLoGsX

You need to take DVD's and CD's that you are familiar with to demo the subs.

I have a few suggestions movie wise:

Lord of the Rings (1st movie) the Balrog battle, starting from the time that the orcs run away till Gandalf is pulled down from the bridge.

H.E.A.T with the shoot out at the bank heist

Behind Enemy lines, the S.A.M chase scene

Master and Commander: Far Side of the World. Any and all the ship battle scenes.

Aliens, take your pick

Good luck and have fun.

 

[Pyrrho]

If you wanted a SVS cylinder sub, you could get a passive one and use a separate amp.

I think this is an excellent way to go, for a variety of reasons. (I am so convinced that it is a good idea, it is what I have done myself. I have 2 SVS CS Ultras that I power with a separate amp.)

First of all, you don't have the amplifier being so vibrated as one that is built into the cabinet, so the amplifier is less likely to fail. Second, if the amp ever does fail, it is much easier to replace if it is not built in. Third, you can select whatever power you want with it. Fourth, if you have an old amplifier (in a receiver or whatever) that can handle a 4 ohm speaker, you don't have to buy a new amplifier at all. The SVS subwoofers are fairly efficient, and you may be surprised by how much bass you can get from a low powered amp. Remember, it takes a doubling of power to get just a 3 dB increase in volume, so if you had half the power of the installed amp, you would only lose 3 dB in possible volume (forgetting about peaks for a moment, which may mean you are less likely to miss anything, as you are unlikely to be constantly driving the woofer at maximum power), and you lose only 6 dB of maximum volume if you have only 1/4 of the power of the built in amp, and you lose only 9 dB of maximum volume if you have only 1/8 of the power of the built in amp. So even if your extra amplifier is not very high powered, you can still get good results.

Also, if you are using the subwoofer with a Dolby Digital surround system, your receiver/preamp/processor has a dedicated subwoofer output that deals with the crossover for you, so paying for a crossover built into the subwoofer is a waste of your money. So all you need is a power amp with a passive sub.

 

[Pyrrho]

This will be my very first sub actually but still I know its importance in a ht system therefor I want to do a thorough research to be able to get the most out of my budget.

I'm going for a trip to one of my local hifi-stores and listen to some subs. What should I be thinking of, what are my main concerns and questions and when should I not listen to the salesman?

//KeLLoGsX

The things you need to know about a subwoofer are usually hard to find out. What you should know are frequency response (+/- 3 dB) and maximum SPL with a specific rated distortion (10% THD is fairly standard for such things; this should include the speaker distortion, not just the amplifier distortion). Wider frequency response (at the low end) and higher SPL (at same rated THD) being better. With a powered subwoofer, they like to tell you the power output of the built in amplifier. However, that tells you ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about the performance aspects that matter. The reason is this: The amount of power needed is directly related to the efficiency of the woofer, and that can vary considerably. There can be more than a 10 dB difference in efficiency between different woofers, and with two woofers that differ in efficiency by 10 dB, the less efficient woofer needs 10 times the power to provide equal volume with the more efficient woofer. In other words, one subwoofer that has a 100 watt amplifier could play louder than another one that has a 500 watt amplifier. More power does not necessarily mean louder or better or anything else that matters. See above for the list of things that matter.

Salesmen can be honest, but they often are highly motivated to sell you something. The thing they push might be a result of having too many of one model in stock, or of getting a higher commission for one model, or whatever. Also, being human, they can make honest mistakes, and simply be wrong about something, even if they are not trying to sucker you. Beware of them.