Truthslayer

Truthslayer

Full Audioholic
For the difference in price the 3500 is a no brainer. I'd love to see Truthslayer do a dbt and consistently pick out the difference between the 2 because I don't think it's possible. Folks who make those claims tend to avoid proving them with double blind testing.
Pogre, my main concern would be in regards to reliability (longevity). (3500 )
Now weather there would be an audible difference or not, I couldn't say one way or another. But sorry to say, the way the transformer is placed directly under the main board, can't be a good thing. And you can disagree if you like, but the heat sinks on the 3500 is also a joke. And that's my opinion, you don't have to agree with it. However I thought it was worth discussing, to give the OP something to think about.

Now as far as your statement regarding a dbt, and picking the difference out consistently. I will never understand why some people think you need to prove what you may or not hear. If someone might be able to hear a difference or not, why should that matter to anyone else. It doesn't effect you. You never hear people say (the one's who might be able to hear a difference on something) to the ones who can't hear a difference, " I don't believe you can't hear a difference"
Those kind of statements are what causes people to not even want to get into discussions about different products. For those who can't ever seem to hear a difference in different products, Great for them. It should make this hobby much cheaper for them. That's why I never dog anyone out for their choice of equipment, if it makes them happy and sounds good them. Well, that's all that counts.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Spartan
Pogre, my main concern would be in regards to reliability (longevity). (3500 )
Now weather there would be an audible difference or not, I couldn't say one way or another. But sorry to say, the way the transformer is placed directly under the main board, can't be a good thing. And you can disagree if you like, but the heat sinks on the 3500 is also a joke. And that's my opinion, you don't have to agree with it. However I thought it was worth discussing, to give the OP something to think about.
Now as far as your statement regarding a dbt, and picking the difference out consistently. I will never understand why some people think you need to prove what you may or not hear. If someone might be able to hear a difference or not, why should that matter to anyone else. It doesn't effect you. You never hear people say (the one's who might be able to hear a difference on something) to the ones who can't hear a difference, " I don't believe you can't hear a difference"
Those kind of statements are what causes people to not even want to get into discussions about different products. For those who can't ever seem to hear a difference in different products, Great for them. It should make this hobby much cheaper for them. That's why I never dog anyone out for their choice of equipment, if it makes them happy and sounds good them. Well, that's all that counts.
I just think it's absurd to suggest spending almost $600 more for the same model, one year older because of transformer layout and theoretical inaudible noise. You brought that up. Can you hear it? If you can't then I don't see why it's even relevant and I think to use it in a statement like that to influence someone to spend twice as much money for almost the same thing deserves an objective look, not an unproven opinion.

As for reliability issues the 3500 hasn't been out long enough to really know one way or the other. Denon has a good track record tho so I would expect it to last a while. Your post is the first I've seen anyone say anything about noise and reliability with this unit.
 
Truthslayer

Truthslayer

Full Audioholic
I just think it's absurd to suggest spending almost $600 more for the same model, one year older because of transformer layout and theoretical inaudible noise. You brought that up. Can you hear it? If you can't then I don't see why it's even relevant and I think to use it in a statement like that to influence someone to spend twice as much money for almost the same thing deserves an objective look, not an unproven opinion.

As for reliability issues the 3500 hasn't been out long enough to really know one way or the other. Denon has a good track record tho so I would expect it to last a while. Your post is the first I've seen anyone say anything about noise and reliability with this unit.
Well I never suggested he spend $600 more, ( that was not my intention) rather I wouldn't touch the 3500. I would be willing to wager denon appears to think there was a possible issue with the layout and heat sinks. Which is why they changed it on the 3600. And just because no one has posted issues on this forum, does not mean there aren't any. There are reviews of people who are not happy, might not be a lot, but they are there. To me, ( and you can disagree all you want ) it doesn't look like something I would be willing to run for long periods. I just think it's something people should be aware of, and give them something to think about.
 
M

MTSound

Audioholic Intern
Alright how about throwing the x4500 into the mix since they can be had for about $1000


Is it worth the extra over the deal on the x3500?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Spartan
Alright how about throwing the x4500 into the mix since they can be had for about $1000


Is it worth the extra over the deal on the x3500?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Not being completely familiar with the internals *ahem* of the 4500, it is the next step up from the 3500 and I would pick it over the 3600 at the same price point.
 
Truthslayer

Truthslayer

Full Audioholic
Not being completely familiar with the internals *ahem* of the 4500, it is the next step up from the 3500 and I would pick it over the 3600 at the same price point.
Agreed. Guts look like the 3600 and better than the 3500. :)
Now that i think about it. The 4500 may be a 2018 model, where as i think the 3600 is a 2019 model. So I would read their features and go from there.
 
M

MTSound

Audioholic Intern
Agreed. Guts look like the 3600 and better than the 3500. :)
Now that i think about it. The 4500 may be a 2018 model, where as i think the 3600 is a 2019 model. So I would read their features and go from there.
4500 still current model and has the imax upgrade. But the 3500 is a heck of a deal at 549.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Truthslayer

Truthslayer

Full Audioholic
4500 still current model and has the imax upgrade. But the 3500 is a heck of a deal at 549.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
That's the bad thing about this hobby, so many damned choices. I say do what your gut and budget says.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Spartan
Agreed. Guts look like the 3600 and better than the 3500. :)
Now that i think about it. The 4500 may be a 2018 model, where as i think the 3600 is a 2019 model. So I would read their features and go from there.
I think we were going at it from different angles. I don't dispute that the 3600 looks like it has better heat sinks at all and repositioning the transformers to cut down on heat makes sense. At the same price I absolutely would pick the 3600 over the 35, but right now we're talking a difference of well over 500 bucks (between those 2).

Happy we could come to consensus on the 4500 tho. If op has the budget that's where I'd put it (or go with the 3500 on a smaller budget).
 
Stevor

Stevor

Audiophyte
Just to muddy the discussion even more the price for the 3600x has dropped to $899 and worth every penny IMHO though I must admit I’m using it mainly as a pre/pro at this time I’m only using the rear surround amps of it, all the others are dedicated amps.
 
M

MTSound

Audioholic Intern
Just to muddy the discussion even more the price for the 3600x has dropped to $899 and worth every penny IMHO though I must admit I’m using it mainly as a pre/pro at this time I’m only using the rear surround amps of it, all the others are dedicated amps.
Just curious where you found it at that price? I am also seeing the Marantz sr6013 for 899


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Truthslayer

Truthslayer

Full Audioholic
Just to muddy the discussion even more the price for the 3600x has dropped to $899 and worth every penny IMHO though I must admit I’m using it mainly as a pre/pro at this time I’m only using the rear surround amps of it, all the others are dedicated amps.
Nothing wrong with muddying the discussion. A good debate is always healthy in my opinion. Glad to hear your enjoying your 3600.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Spartan
Just curious where you found it at that price? I am also seeing the Marantz sr6013 for 899


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That's another good unit. That's what I paid for my SR6011 at that year's end and haven't had any troubles with it.
 
Stevor

Stevor

Audiophyte
Just curious where you found it at that price? I am also seeing the Marantz sr6013 for 899


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Amazon! I had an Onkyo RZ 810 which was a great amp but the processing left more than a bit to be desired with ATMOS the delay was unbearable and I could never find an adjustment for that flaw. This one is quirky as well but overall stellar.
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Samurai
I can’t understand why they still put component video connectors on AVRs. :)
 
C

CajunLB

Junior Audioholic
The 3600 also has 2 more channels of amplification if I understand correctly. That may account for some of the layout differences as well. The 4500 and 3600 look very similar to each other in the layout pictures on Accessories4less. I’m interested in this discussion also because I’m purchasing one of them in the near future and I am not seeing much difference at all except for a trivial amount of power.
 
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