everettT
Audioholic Spartan
I would skip discounts for speakers if your choice is limited to BB Magnolia.
Shady might be spot on with you over driving them, but I've own B&W 800 series (804m) for a long time...the 803 was always the hard hitting, but the power handling even with the 804d3 should be able to handle what you are dishing out....to go thru 2 sets of woofer drivers, amp clipping would be something I would explore as well.I guess I may have to look at a different speaker that can keep up with what I like to watch. My music listening I know never has damaged them it’s been in a movie both times. Last time was during transformers last knight.
I was thinking that clipping might be an issue. I was hoping that a speaker and amp from the same parent company would have worked well together. They even had it wired this way in the show room.
I was suspicious of power conditioners at first as well. I’m fortunate were I was able to get it for 1/5 the price New. I played with it listening to music and when it was in the system it was a real noticeable difference. I’m not the best at describeing things but the best I can do is say it opened everything up and noticed more space in between the instruments. Either way if u have the ability to play around with one I would recommend it.
Based on the results, once the Rotel's low input sensitivity and the 804 D's low impedance dips are factored int, it is quite likely that your prepro/amp combo would clip during peaks and if severe enough it could cause damage to the speakers.View attachment 23067
That’s what I got from the website you suggested. Unfortunately I don’t have a dedicated room and it is all open to kitchen dining area with 9’ ceilings. Also not able to do much with treatments other than thick curtains over the windows.
90% of movies I watch are 4K Blu-ray and music is mainly tidial or Spotify
I did run the audyssey and always have it on.
I try to keep it as cool as I can I have it in a closed cabnit but prop the doors open a little and I have 4 fans in there. 2 going out 1 going in and 1 blowing across. But it still can get a little warm at times
Marantz receiver preouts are usually good to 4vrms from my testing. It is doubtful the preamp is clipping. If it were a Yamaha receiver, that would be a different story.I agree with Shady and TLS Guy. To summarize, you pushed your system too hard because:
1. The speakers are not designed for the kind of spl you need. This is an educated guess only, without knowing your room dimensions, amount of acoustic damping, sitting distance, and to certain extent the media contents you have been mainly listening to (types of movies, music etc.).
If you don't want to provide the into, you can use the online calculator linked below and let us know the results. It won't be very accurate but should be good enough to help troubleshooting.
http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html
2. The RMB1585 has relatively low input sensitivity, 1.9V RCA, 3.8V XLR. The Marantz could therefore be clipping during certain peaks in the media contents you listened to. That would of course result in the Rotel clipping as well.
3. It is hard to know for sure without knowing whether you ran Audyssey and have it on all the time, and the level settings after running Audyssey, but it seems very likely that you are listening at or exceeded "reference" level from your main mic position. For Marantz, the volume scale is 0-98 or -79.5 to +18, so 80 is about "0", and if you had ran Audyssey correctly, that would represent "reference" level (THX standard) at your mic position, and that would likely be too loud for most people.
Note: When you get the speakers fixed, at least temporarily, you may be safer to just drive the speakers with the Marantz SR8012, for most movies and 2 channel jazz/classical music and only use the Rotel for compressed music listening. Do make sure the Marantz SR8012 is kept cool, with an external fan if necessary. Obviously it will help a lot if you can turn the volume down a little, instead of 80-83, try 73 to 76, or if you drive them directly with the SR8012, you could try 75 to 77 but do check for temperature.
If you like those speakers, and they are really nice sounding ones, then you may want to consider changing the crossover settings to 80 Hz, preferably 90 Hz, sell the RMB 1585 and get a 3 channel amp such as the Halo A31, or Anthem MCA 225 that has higher input sensitivity. Note: setting the crossover point higher than 80 Hz should help, but not very much because the speaker's impedance hoovers around 3 to 4 ohms between 80 and 200 Hz. Phase angle looks good, and the Rotel amp can take the heat anyway, it is just the impedance we have to be careful with.
I agree, but he might have been testing the limits.Marantz receiver preouts are usually good to 4vrms from my testing. It is doubtful the preamp is clipping. If it were a Yamaha receiver, that would be a different story.
not of the preouts of the Marantz. The Rotel would clip long before that would happen.I agree, but he might have been testing the limits.
I can't argue with the math, so if you are confident the brand new SR8012 (no bench test data) preouts can do 4 V rms (or even 3 V) unclipped then I withdraw my comments. It was the Rotel's 1.9 V sensitivity that alarmed me a little in the beginning.not of the preouts of the Marantz. The Rotel would clip long before that would happen.
The manufacturers aren't giving you max output voltage unless explicitely stated. It's just a reference voltage at a particular load impedance usually. I've never tested a Denon or Marantz unit that wasn't capable of delivering at least 3Vrms unclipped.I can't argue with the math, so if you are confident the brand new SR8012 (no bench test data) preouts can do 4 V rms (or even 3 V) unclipped then I withdraw my comments. It was the Rotel's 1.9 V sensitivity that alarmed me a little in the beginning.
By the way, like power consumption figures, the so called rated output specs: example: 1.2 V (D&M) for the preouts are not well defined by even the popular brands (or any brands) such as D&M, Pioneer and Yamaha, and I have done measurements myself to know they can do much higher. Is it possible for you to find out exactly how they defined the so called "rated output" or just "output"?
Yamaha does provided a little more specifics for their new models, such as:
1.0 V/470 ohm
2.0 V or more maximum
that's still almost useless, I mean, how useful it is to say "or more"?
would be nice if they would at least say something like 2.0V /1kohm continuous, 4.0V maximum @ X ohm, <0.01% THD, 10-20KHz +/- x dB.
My speaker level is set to 80 out of 98 which I don’t think is that high considering what I thought they should be able to do. I have a feeling that it happens in movie scenes with a lot of lfe signals. I like a lot of sci-fi type action movies or well anything with a lot of soround and explosions.This is very strange. My guess is that it's not the speakers - unless your room is huge and they are just not the correct size for the spl that you are trying to achieve.
It's possible something in the chain is defective.
I have the 805D2 stand-mounts and I can take them up to SPL's well above what's in your screen shot and they don't even flinch. Clean, clear, tight and musical. No distortion, no breakup.
Have you tried contacting Bower & Wilkins directly? They have excellent customer service. I'd give them a call.
Everything in my system is under 4 months old and works great on all my other speakers.This is very strange. My guess is that it's not the speakers - unless your room is huge and they are just not the correct size for the spl that you are trying to achieve.
It's possible something in the chain is defective.
I have the 805D2 stand-mounts and I can take them up to SPL's well above what's in your screen shot and they don't even flinch. Clean, clear, tight and musical. No distortion, no breakup.
Have you tried contacting Bower & Wilkins directly? They have excellent customer service. I'd give them a call.
My sentiments exactly, not about that speaker specifically but in general. A lot of speakers will sound great with movies but few speakers will sound as good as the D3s with music. Very few.So I looked at a few of the speakers that were recommended but I don’t like buying anything I can’t hear first. I was able to demo the large klipsch speakers which sounded awesome while playing Star Trek but when I listened to music I was not impressed at all. Do you think adding a Martin Logan dynamo 1500x or a svs 13 ultra sub with my current svs 16 would help at all with the speaker levels? Unfortunately adding another 16 ultra is out of the question which would obviously be ideal.
Also I thought when a system started having clipping issues usually the tweeters went first an not the sub. Unless I’m way off on this.
That's pretty much standard practice. I've been a hifi consumer since the 70s and every pair of speakers I've bought, I heard them numerous times before I bought...Salk...that's part of the bound of owners I think...that leap of faith.So I looked at a few of the speakers that were recommended but I don’t like buying anything I can’t hear first. I was able to demo the large klipsch speakers which sounded awesome while playing Star Trek but when I listened to music I was not impressed at all. Do you think adding a Martin Logan dynamo 1500x or a svs 13 ultra sub with my current svs 16 would help at all with the speaker levels? Unfortunately adding another 16 ultra is out of the question which would obviously be ideal.
Also I thought when a system started having clipping issues usually the tweeters went first an not the sub. Unless I’m way off on this.
The 805 (matrix to D3) was always a favorite of mine and still is. Incredible sound from such a small box. Yeah the OP has some other issues going on...B&W probably would have no problem getting him new drivers one time, but the 2nd time...they might have some pause.This is very strange. My guess is that it's not the speakers - unless your room is huge and they are just not the correct size for the spl that you are trying to achieve.
It's possible something in the chain is defective.
I have the 805D2 stand-mounts and I can take them up to SPL's well above what's in your screen shot and they don't even flinch. Clean, clear, tight and musical. No distortion, no breakup.
Have you tried contacting Bower & Wilkins directly? They have excellent customer service. I'd give them a call.
I think your Rotel amp needs checking at a competent service center for DC offset before you use it any more.
I can't find reports on your model, but other models with age have developed up to 30 volts DC offset at power without triggering protection. This would cause the trouble you have had. The problem seems to involve the adjustable bias circuit, which can wander out of spec over the years and cause this probblem
My advice is to remove your Rotel power amp from service immediately and have it checked out. Use your receiver's amps.
I think it does need checking out. It needs driving into a 3.5 ohm load, certainly no higher than 4 ohm. It needs to drive high power resistors, (400 watt) and be checked for DC voltage at the speaker terminals.It’s a rotel Rmb-1585 that I bought New in late July but it is definitely still under warranty. I may have them look at it