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mudrummer99

Senior Audioholic
Just wanted to post my 2 cents on this topic.

First off I would like to say that there is a significant difference between opposing the war and supporting our troops, politicians (R and D) would like you to believe they are one in the same. I personally do not believe that Bush's reasoning for going into Iraq was well founded (Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 and has never been directly connected with a terrorist attack on the U.S., Hussein was an evil man, but he wasn't stupid) but was more of an opportunistic agenda movement. That being said I have several friends over in Iraq right and now and have lost a couple more. I am not for an all out removal of our military forces, not because I believe we should finish what we started but because if we don't make sure that there is a stable government in this area we will be back over there again in 10-15 years doing the same thing and costing more lives in the process.

Will this war be "won", probably not. No matter what we do over there and how long we are there, we will eventually become a non-presence there and then they are on their own. This area of the world is very unstable. It has been for hundreds of years. There is very little to nothing we can do to change this fact.

Now to respond to the OP's post. Should Pelosi say these things, of course she shouldn't. Is the war a "failure", no we are obviously making headway towards the goal that was set fourth 6 or so years ago. Did we grossly underestimate the effort it was going to take to succeed in this situation, most certainly. The war itself is not the problem, as many of the posters have alluded to, it is the people behind the scenes that seem to cause the issues.

Politicians, IMO, are the problem with the Iraq war. We are there, we have lost many men and women fighting for another countries sovereignty. We have spent billions upon billions of dollars in this effort. What has this brought us? Our economy is starting to fail due to remarkably inept spending practices. Lowering taxes is the buzzword of the moment (as it always seems to be come election time). One huge problem with lowering taxes, where is the money coming from to fund all of this extra spending? We are still spending and spending to support this effort (and don't take this as we should cut spending for our troops, I think that would be the worst possible thing to do at this point) and politicians just want to look good by putting money back into the pockets of Americans. Unfortunately Joe Sixpack agrees. The same Joe Sixpack that is all about war and thinks we should keep sending more and more troops over. The same Joe Sixpack that thinks we should bring all the troops home. Politicians are failing us, not the war, and most certainly not the troops. But by saying the right things these people continue to run our country. A quick side note on this point, taxes are the money we use to run our country, without taxes our government would fail the way it is set up now. Can a government run without monetary support of it's people, yes, but not the way ours is set up right now.

Unfortunately over the past few years this war has become a political device more than anything else. Democrats are using it as an example of Republican failure and Republicans are using the Democrats lack of support as being "unpatriotic" There are several different permutation of this, but in general most of it boils down to this. This is DISGUSTING, war is not an instrument to get your party elected. There are a few politicians out there that do not allign with their parties beliefs, and are quickly dismissed by their opponents within that party as really being a "opposite party member".

I think this is more like a nickels worth, but I'll stop there for now. I just want to end by saying, support our troops, finish the war, and move onto more important things, like fixing our own country. Whatever it takes to make that happen, do it.
 
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rnatalli

Audioholic Ninja
While I generally think there is not much hope for them as a whole, I do think we can at the very least keep them in check and make impossible for them to ever pull off a 9/11 attack again.
We have lost in excess of 3k troops already and a trillion dollars. In 9/11, we lost 3k civilians and a couple of buildings. We're keeping a couple of countries in check, but what about all the others?
 
jonnythan

jonnythan

Audioholic Ninja
Then explain to me why it's so easy to rally behind other supposed facts that are in opposition to our involvement in the war, 9/11, Iraq, terrorists, etc.
Which "supposed facts" do I believe that you feel are unsupported?


Make no mistake about it - our involvement in Iraq is solidified. We simply cannot pack up and leave at this point, and we cannot under any circumstances allow our soldiers to believe they are dying for a lost cause. We committed ourselves to it, so it is our duty and honor as a nation to rally behind our troops and the decisions that have been made, and see it through to the end. Period.
I certainly agree with you there.
 
jeffsg4mac

jeffsg4mac

Republican Poster Boy
We have lost in excess of 3k troops already and a trillion dollars. In 9/11, we lost 3k civilians and a couple of buildings. We're keeping a couple of countries in check, but what about all the others?
One at a time my friend. Take the biggies down first.
 
jonnythan

jonnythan

Audioholic Ninja
It wasn't directed at you specifically, just the opposition in general. ;)
Well, like I said, most Americans are dolts. They have no problem rallying behind "facts" they've heard that seem like they can be true, whether they're supported by evidence or not ;0
 
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rnatalli

Audioholic Ninja
As we're having a very good and civil discussion, a solution occurred to me. Let's make all politicians into Audioholics :D
 
M

mudrummer99

Senior Audioholic
Just remember 78% of facts are made up on the spot ;)
 
jeffsg4mac

jeffsg4mac

Republican Poster Boy
Take one down and two pop up. We're running out of money already and we've barely made any progress.
I wouldn't say barely any progress. We have made some good gains. Just ask the people in Afghanistan how they like life now that they are no longer under the taliban. Same for the majority of the Iraqis.

We all know very well the biggest threat is Iran and they will have to be dealt with before all this is over.
 
Halon451

Halon451

Audioholic Samurai
We all know very well the biggest threat is Iran and they will have to be dealt with before all this is over.
Abso-freakin'-lutely. God help us all if we get someone in office who is not prepared to handle that challenge. :(
 
Rickster71

Rickster71

Audioholic Spartan
In regards to the cheaper solution, to war in Iraq:

When 9/11 happened, and it was determined who the perpetrators were.
I have to admit, I was in favor of mass deportation.
It's cheaper, we would be safe, and it would send a message
to the countries that harbor terrorists. To clean up their acts;
or they will no longer reap the benefits of living here.
I'll bet the "Hand Wringers" won't like that solution either.:)
IMHO
 
jonnythan

jonnythan

Audioholic Ninja
Mass deportation is a great idea.

The problem is figuring out which ones are the terrorists we're supposed to be deporting.
 
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gus6464

Audioholic Samurai
I wonder if most of you guys posting your thoughts about this have even been to Iraq and let alone been in the military. I was in the Army for 5 years from 2001 to 2006. Spent over 2 years in Iraq in two different deployments. First one was right at the start of the war and second one was OIF III. I was part of the 16th Signal Battalion which was the main communications battalion for 3rd Corps in Ft. Hood.

On the first deployment we were so underfunded and unprepared that we got sent up north past Tikrit without any protection. Our trucks were not armored and all they did was bolt a metal plate to the vinyl doors on our humvees. That is what they considered armored. During my first deployment I was there for 14 months and spent time in Tikrit, Mosul, Fallujah, Al-Asad, and other small places setting up communications.

On my second deployment I spent 12 months mostly by the Syrian border, Baghdad, and south of Baghdad at an Air Base. While the conditions where a lot better on my second deployment food and living wise, everything else was the same. We still got bombed everyday, lost a lot of troops on patrol, and still managed to have a lot of aircraft shut down. In 3 years between my first deployment nothing had changed.

Now I got out of the military 3 months after I returned from my second deployment on April, 2006 but I still had a lot of friends whose contract wasn't up. All of them went back 8 months after I got out and were there for over a year yet again. They came back on Dec of 2007 and I have kept in contact with some of them and they tell me that it was still the same as our first two deployments. We still lost as many troops and got bombed the same no matter where they were at. Just because the news doesn't report it as much anymore doesn't mean troops aren't still dying.

So if you ask me I consider Iraq a total and complete failure. From what I have experienced we haven't accomplished much of what we set out to do when we first invaded. Sure the living conditions are a lot better as is expected with the amount of money we are spending in the country, but nothing else has changed.
 

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