Treason

[jeffsg4mac]

I am sorry but this woman (and I use that term very loosely) needs to be indicted and tried for treason against this country and punished accordingly. Read these two articles.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/iraq/article3346386.ece

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0208/8422.html

 

[Halon451]

I could not agree more. Pelosi has been the worse thing that has happened to this country in years, and it's too bad that so many people continue to be sucked into this warped sense of logic that she (and many others) continue to propogate. Under no circumstances whatsover should anyone in her position put the lives of our soldiers in jeopordy if only to fulfill her own political goals in Washington. It is truly disgusting.

 

[jinjuku]

Who are you referring to?

 

[stratman]

Pelosi is what she is, she will never concede to the successes in Iraq, her vitriolic hate of anything mildly conservative clearly shows her ultra left leanings and her distaste for anything that puts America ahead. God help this country if these yokels get into "real" power, then we'll get a taste of a real disaster, economically, militarily and lastly moraly.

 

[jinjuku]

So let me get this straight, Pelosi put U.S Military personnel in harms way in Iraq?

I thought President Bush did that... I guess I have to re-read the books again.

 

[Halon451]

So let me get this straight, Pelosi put U.S Military personnel in harms way in Iraq?

I thought President Bush did that... I guess I have to re-read the books again.

It isn't a question of who took our soldiers to war, my beef is that she can be so audacious as to declare the the war is a "failure" while we still have soldiers over there dodging bullets and IED's. What do you think that does to troop morale? It strips them of their ability to fight for what they believe to be a noble cause, and basically tells them that their entire efforts thus far have been inadequate. It is both shameful and disgraceful. Whether you agree with the war or not, as long as we have our men and women in harm's way, we should NEVER take away their spirit like that. To do so effectively hands the war over to our enemies, and emboldens said enemy that much more to carry out further attacks - which in turn costs more American lives.

 

[Rickster71]

So let me get this straight, Pelosi put U.S Military personnel in harms way in Iraq?

I thought President Bush did that... I guess I have to re-read the books again.

The adults that willfully joined the military, chose to be in 'harms way,'
by the fact they took a job in the military.

 

[jinjuku]

It isn't a question of who took our soldiers to war, my beef is that she can be so audacious as to declare the the war is a "failure" while we still have soldiers over there dodging bullets and IED's. What do you think that does to troop morale? It strips them of their ability to fight for what they believe to be a noble cause, and basically tells them that their entire efforts thus far have been inadequate. It is both shameful and disgraceful. Whether you agree with the war or not, as long as we have our men and women in harm's way, we should NEVER take away their spirit like that. To do so effectively hands the war over to our enemies, and emboldens said enemy that much more to carry out further attacks - which in turn costs more American lives.

So; do you have to have a 'belief' that the fight is a noble cause? Or do you need a noble cause in actuality to fight? There is a difference.

Would you define Iraq as a success?

There are a lot of military personnel over that already feel demoralized for having to be in this bogus effort already. They ain't dumb and it isn't taking Pelosi to wake them up to that fact. My buddy Robert just got out two months ago and is not exactly a happy camper with the entire reason for getting shot at in the first place. I doubt he really cares what Pelosi said or did not say. Don't blame the messenger...

 

[markw]

I think you're arguing something else.

So let me get this straight, Pelosi put U.S Military personnel in harms way in Iraq?

I thought President Bush did that... I guess I have to re-read the books again.

While I'm still not sure that Bush did the right thing by going into Iraq, I don't think anyone with a head on their shoulders thought it was going to be a quick and easy in and out process. ...and this includes the Democrats who voted for it as well.

But, signs do indicate that, at last, there finally seems to be some progress in getting the fighting factions over there to realize that we're not the enemy: it's the other outside forces (Al-qaeda (sp?)) that have been playing them against each other.

Given that that country is basically three religions that have been fighting each other for generations, it's easy to throw a stone, run and hide hide, and point the finger at someone else, thereby fostering more hatred.

They now seem to realize that it's not us that have been doing the suicide bombings, it's other Arabs and Persians who are prolonging the conflict for their own purposes. They strive on chaos and, by instigating it, they hope to sweep in and put a stop to it, thereby setting themselves up as the ruler of the country.

But, it seems the Sunni and both Shia factions are now starting to work more together in stopping this evil outside influence. IOW, it looks like the white blood cells are starting to weaken the infection.

but, although the tide is starting to turn, we're needed there to see this situation through until they are fully able to fight it themselves. If we abruptly pull out now, the power vacuum will be filled (again) by the terrorists that have been bedeviling the Iraqis all along, only with a reinforced vigor.

Pelosi's rant is not only a lie, but it also does a disservice to all who have sacrificed to bring Iraq along to this point and provides encouragement to the terrorists to just wait it out until the election. Then, it's back to business as usual.

Like it or not, we've got a commitment to see this through. If we simply pull out and leave then to fend for themselves when they are still weak, we're not living up to our word to see then through to the end and our credibility will be for shiite in the eyes of the world.

 

[jinjuku]

The adults that willfully joined the military, chose to be in 'harms way,'
by the fact they took a job in the military.

Not disagreeing w/ you there. Military personnel serve at the whim of the commander in chief. I am just dismayed over Iraq and what it is going to cost all of us without delivering any long term results.

I had no problem going into Afghanistan. The issue there now is we didn't finish the job, the Taliban is in resurgence.

What are we there trying to accomplish right now? It's not going to hurt anyone to be critical of this entire mess and ask tough questions.

Too worried about Pelosi, and not enough about Policy.

 

[Halon451]

Would you define Iraq as a success?

Absolutely. There are dozens of reports coming in from the battlezone to support this. And, the reason your buddy and other like him have this view is exactly why I stated my last comment: If the a$$es in Washington would stop playing their political games and get on with business, it would in turn trickle down to the troops, who would know what it is they are fighting for. So really, you just helped prove my point if you think about it.

This same thing happened in Vietnam. It takes a nation to win a war, not just an army - keep that in mind.

 

[jinjuku]

Absolutely. There are dozens of reports coming in from the battlezone to support this. And, the reason your buddy and other like him have this view is exactly why I stated my last comment: If the a$$es in Washington would stop playing their political games and get on with business, it would in turn trickle down to the troops, who would know what it is they are fighting for. So really, you just helped prove my point if you think about it.

This same thing happened in Vietnam. It takes a nation to win a war, not just an army - keep that in mind.

I agree with that... Just still comes back to the point of Afghanistan was the right thing to do, Iraq was not.

If you are going to stick your self with the barbed fishing hook you might as well push it all the way through

 

[krzywica]

The adults that willfully joined the military, chose to be in 'harms way,'
by the fact they took a job in the military.

Yes that is true, from the first time you swear that oath to uphold and defend the constitution......defend the US from all enemies foreign and domestic....

I know I've been there. And when you are there you might BS from time to time about why you are there, but for the most part you are just stricken with the reality that THIS IS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW!! I am here, all I can do is try and keep myself and my fellow airmen as alive as possible.

All that said it is a truly cowardice move to stir up turmoil that generates negative publicity about the war effort. Its bad enough we are over there in the first place, yeah we know its hard, yeah we know there have been setbacks, but second guessing your commander in chief should never be a viable option. Its just a cowardly move, like kicking someone while they are down.

 

[Halon451]

I had no problem going into Afghanistan. The issue there now is we didn't finish the job, the Taliban is in resurgence.

Last time I checked, we were still in Afghanistan, and still on course.

What are we there trying to accomplish right now? It's not going to hurt anyone to be critical of this entire mess and ask tough questions.

War is always a messy, devisive game - unfortunately at times it is necessary. I wish it weren't so. But we committed ourselves to the war on terror, post-9/11, and that war continues today. We cannot leave Iraq as it is now, because to do so would bring about more long-term chaos, and it would become a breeding ground for terrorist cells whose only intent is to destroy America. To note the successes of this war, read the first article in the OP. As long as we have them on the run, we can assure there will be no further 9/11 type attacks on our soil. The minute we cut and run though - god forbid, I believe 9/11 will be child's play for what's to come next.

Btw, it has been proven that Iraq's WMD was shipped to Syria just before the war began. Why is that not brought to the forefront of American News media? Oh, it's because the liberals are too vested in our defeat and demise to have to admit that our intel was correct all along.

 

[Rickster71]

In this world, there are 'Doers' and there are 'Handwringers.'
If we didn't try to go out and find, and end terrorism.
We would be here, cowering and waiting for the next attack.
I'm thankful everyday, this country still has some Doers.

 

[rnatalli]

I have no love for Pelosi or for most of the government for that matter. The troops are fighting to make a bunch of people rich and to help Bush have a legacy. Have no illusion as there's no other reason to be in Iraq. If you really believe we're there spreading democracy or to fight the war on terror, then you've fallen for the propaganda and tool of this administration, fear. Traditionally, when a nation goes to war, you are supposed to gain something. In this case, only a small percentage of people have gained on the backs of the American people and poor souls being shot at on the ground. It's all about money people.

The soldiers are doing what they signed up to do. Politicians are scum as are the parents who sue the government when their child is killed in Iraq. What did they think signing up for the military meant? Okay, they may have died for a useless cause, but they still did their duty. Oh, and lets not forget those protesters in Berkeley who don't like recruiters in their town. Perhaps they should stop eating McDonald's and pick up a gun themselves.

Let's also not forget that democracy allows for disagreement. Does Pelosi's comments demoralize the troops, probably, is she wrong, maybe, is she doing it for political capital, most definitely yes but who isn't in a democracy? Leverage is everything unless you opt for a dictatorship.

 

[jinjuku]

Last time I checked, we were still in Afghanistan, and still on course.


Btw, it has been proven that Iraq's WMD was shipped to Syria just before the war began. Why is that not brought to the forefront of American News media? Oh, it's because the liberals are too vested in our defeat and demise to have to admit that our intel was correct all along.

And what course is that ?

Could you provide something backing up the whole WMD's moved to Syria statement?

 

[rnatalli]

WMD argument is old. What country would be stupid enough to use the one or two nukes they have knowing full well that international law allows for mass retaliation.

 

[Halon451]

And what course is that ?

Could you provide something backing up the whole WMD's moved to Syria statement?

I figured you would ask

http://www.nysun.com/article/26514

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=36463

http://www.2la.org/syria/wmd.html

http://www.therant.us/staff/malensek/2006/04072006.htm

But the real proof in the pudding lies within Saddam's own journals, which have been recovered, and supports all of these claims.

...and knowing is half the battle my friend.

 

[Halon451]

WMD argument is old. What country would be stupid enough to use the one or two nukes they have knowing full well that international law allows for mass retaliation.

Not merely talking about nukes when discussing WMD. Saddam used WMD on his own people during the 80's - do you find it slightly odd that all of a sudden nothing was to be found when we went in?