Tower speakers w/ integrated subs - Def Tech BP9060 vs GoldenEar Tritons?

[zew]

Hi, I'm looking to upgrade my current system (2.1) to floorstanding speakers that have powered subwoofers built-in. I use it for equal parts music listening & TV/movies. My budget is $1500-3000 for the pair. Rich bass is important to me.

I've been eyeballing the Definitive Technology BP9060's for a while, but was wondering if anyone thought I needed to strongly be considering the GoldenEar Triton Two+ (or Three's)? Or any other brands I'm not considering? I believe the GE's would be a big leap in terms of price - do you feel the quality is substantially better?

I've never heard the Tritons. I've demo'd the DT's a couple times at Best Buy - once I was blown away, once I thought it sounded hollow and odd (I wondered if maybe the employee didn't know what they were doing and had some weird setting enabled? Or if the room placement was off?). I really prefer the minimal, clean aesthetic of the DT's compared with other tower speakers.

Thank you in advance.

 

[slipperybidness]

What are your current speakers?

It might make more sense to spend that budget on a sub-woofer or even a pair of REAL BIG BOY SUBS!

Don't get fooled by marketing, those are not "real subs" in either the GE or the DT. For movies, you still want a separate real sub.

Now, to answer your question, GE all day long! GE has an advantage with their AMT tweeter.

I auditioned both, and I bought the GE T2 (before the T2+ was on the market). The "problem" with the DT is that they are bipolar and that will make proper positioning more difficult and will need more distance off the back wall to sound good. Then, that GE tweeter is nice and smooth.

 

[zew]

What are your current speakers?

It might make more sense to spend that budget on a sub-woofer or even a pair of REAL BIG BOY SUBS!

Don't get fooled by marketing, those are not "real subs" in either the GE or the DT. For movies, you still want a separate real sub.

Currently I have Pioneer SP-FS52 towers and a Polk PSW10. (Not the best subwoofer). The Pioneers sound very nice but they definitely need a sub, and they are pretty ugly. I live in a small apartment (with a wife who's not thrilled about lots of speakers) which is why I was so intrigued by the BP9060's and how sleek and thin they are. Trying to minimize the amount of speakers and clutter. I guess aesthetics are important - one of the reasons I'm not considering SVS Ultra towers, which I think are eyesores.

I trust you're right about the integrated subs not being "real subs" - do you think they'd still be a substantial upgrade over my current system? It's much more important for me to have deep bass with music than it is to have earth-shaking rumble in movies.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Just go and listen to the speakers you want to buy. I bet DefTech and GoldenEar towers are available at Best Buy and other stores.

Play some movies with loud bass (Dark Phoenix, Pacific Rim, etc.). Turn up the bass volume in those speakers. See what you think.

These speakers might not have "true" subwoofer bass by many of our standards.

But at the end of the day, the salient factor is what you think.

I used to own big DefTech towers. I thought the bass was pretty good. Again, not "true big subwoofer bass", but pretty good.

The main reason I don't like them is because I don't like putting Amps inside speakers. I prefer my amps to be outside the speakers. I think there is a reason why many speakers have a 5-10 YR warranty, but the amps inside them only have a 1-3 YR warranty.

 

[NorCalRP]

Have never seen GE's at BB. Have listened to both brands though. I'd definitely take the GE's over the DefTechs. Their upper in is more refined- better clarity, wider soundstage. Both designed by Sandy Gross, with the GE's being an improvement ( in his thinking) over the DefTechs.

If it we're me, I'd definitely spend as much as possible. I'd pass on everything you mentioned, get the Triton 7's, leaving ~$1500 for subwoofage. That's going to get you so much more output and range than towers with built-in subs. The driver technology of the Triton's is passed down from their Reference towers.

I'd go Triton 7's with the dual VTF-2 MK-5 from HSU

 

[NorCalRP]

Btw- I listened to both the Triton 5 and Triton 7 next to the Paradigm Premier 800's. I definitely liked the GE sound over Paradigm (I own Paradigms- originally my front soundstage then repurposed to surround duty, so I'm not a hater by any means). I ended up spending $700 on a pair of Emotiva T1's and about $300 on the C2, so the price of one GE Triton 5 for my entire front soundstage. I'm really happy with it. Being an ID manufacturer, your looking at a better value proposition than a brick and mortar store

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Being an ID manufacturer, your looking at a better value proposition than a brick and mortar store

That's debatable, as always.

Big B&M brands have economies of scale. So if you get big discounts on these brands, then the price difference could be negligible.

But it all comes down to your specific goals. For example, if your specific goal is for Modular Towers, then you get Modular Towers. If your specific goal is for Marlan Heads and Diamond Tweeters, then that's what you get.

 

[slipperybidness]

Have never seen GE's at BB. Have listened to both brands though. I'd definitely take the GE's over the DefTechs. Their upper in is more refined- better clarity, wider soundstage. Both designed by Sandy Gross, with the GE's being an improvement ( in his thinking) over the DefTechs.

If it we're me, I'd definitely spend as much as possible. I'd pass on everything you mentioned, get the Triton 7's, leaving ~$1500 for subwoofage. That's going to get you so much more output and range than towers with built-in subs. The driver technology of the Triton's is passed down from their Reference towers.

I'd go Triton 7's with the dual VTF-2 MK-5 from HSU

I agree!

If I were doing it today, definitely go with the T7 or T5 and separate subs from an ID brand.

But, when I bought my T2, those were the ONLY GEs on the market. I later added a Rythmik F15HP!

 

[slipperybidness]

Btw- I listened to both the Triton 5 and Triton 7 next to the Paradigm Premier 800's. I definitely liked the GE sound over Paradigm (I own Paradigms- originally my front soundstage then repurposed to surround duty, so I'm not a hater by any means). I ended up spending $700 on a pair of Emotiva T1's and about $300 on the C2, so the price of one GE Triton 5 for my entire front soundstage. I'm really happy with it. Being an ID manufacturer, your looking at a better value proposition than a brick and mortar store

How do you think the Emo tweeter (and speaker in general) compares to the GE tweeter (and speaker in general).

I own the GE T2, and I have a set of the Emo Slim Bookshelves with that emo air motion tweeter. I may end up using the T2 as mains in 5.1, and the Emos as my surrounds. But, I haven't listened side-by-side or in 5.1 yet.

Any insight? Do the emos timber match the GE OK? How about T2 mains and Emo center?

 

[slipperybidness]

Currently I have Pioneer SP-FS52 towers and a Polk PSW10. (Not the best subwoofer). The Pioneers sound very nice but they definitely need a sub, and they are pretty ugly. I live in a small apartment (with a wife who's not thrilled about lots of speakers) which is why I was so intrigued by the BP9060's and how sleek and thin they are. Trying to minimize the amount of speakers and clutter. I guess aesthetics are important - one of the reasons I'm not considering SVS Ultra towers, which I think are eyesores.

I trust you're right about the integrated subs not being "real subs" - do you think they'd still be a substantial upgrade over my current system? It's much more important for me to have deep bass with music than it is to have earth-shaking rumble in movies.

Seems odd that you don't like the looks of the Pios, but like the socks on the GE or the DT. All seems about the same ho-hum appearance to me (but I am also a fan of the understated looks).

Oh yes! The GE T2 are EXCELLENT speakers! The imaging is amazing, very easy to think that a center speaker is playing when it is not. This is another advantage over the DT, those bipoles tend to not image as well as monopoles.

The GE T2 are great with music! I guess on some of the deepest notes on HipHop and such, a real bass-head might want a little more SPL, but if HipHop, electronica, and pipe organs are not your thing, you will be quite satisfied!

For reference--I demoed both the DT (previous model) and the GE T2, but bought the T2. Later, I added a pair of the DT SM350 to my lineup, have considered using these as my surrounds, but never yet. I do own a set of the lower end Infinity Primus, and a boutique Philharmonitor too.

 

[zew]

Have never seen GE's at BB. Have listened to both brands though. I'd definitely take the GE's over the DefTechs. Their upper in is more refined- better clarity, wider soundstage. Both designed by Sandy Gross, with the GE's being an improvement ( in his thinking) over the DefTechs.

If it we're me, I'd definitely spend as much as possible. I'd pass on everything you mentioned, get the Triton 7's, leaving ~$1500 for subwoofage. That's going to get you so much more output and range than towers with built-in subs.

Right, Best Buy doesn't carry GoldenEar - oddly enough it's hard to find any showrooms even in NYC that have certain models on display. (Currently having trouble finding anywhere I can hear the Triton Three+).

If my goal is minimalism, and am really trying to avoid a separate subwoofer, do you think any of the Triton series (minus the top $$$ end) would be able to deliver enough low & sub bass to bring music to life? (Again, if I'm not super concerned with house-shaking low end for movies)

 

[slipperybidness]

Right, Best Buy doesn't carry GoldenEar - oddly enough it's hard to find any showrooms even in NYC that have certain models on display. (Currently having trouble finding anywhere I can hear the Triton Three+).

If my goal is minimalism, and am really trying to avoid a separate subwoofer, do you think any of the Triton series (minus the top $$$ end) would be able to deliver enough low & sub bass to bring music to life? (Again, if I'm not super concerned with house-shaking low end for movies)

Don't forget, for integrated subs/amps, you still have to run a power cable to each speaker. Likely not a big deal, but that adds a cable if you are trying to go for the cleanest look.

 

[shadyJ]

Currently I have Pioneer SP-FS52 towers and a Polk PSW10. (Not the best subwoofer). The Pioneers sound very nice but they definitely need a sub, and they are pretty ugly. I live in a small apartment (with a wife who's not thrilled about lots of speakers) which is why I was so intrigued by the BP9060's and how sleek and thin they are. Trying to minimize the amount of speakers and clutter. I guess aesthetics are important - one of the reasons I'm not considering SVS Ultra towers, which I think are eyesores.

I trust you're right about the integrated subs not being "real subs" - do you think they'd still be a substantial upgrade over my current system? It's much more important for me to have deep bass with music than it is to have earth-shaking rumble in movies.

With the grilles on, I would say that the SVS Prime Pinnacles are fairly minimalist. They sound good as well. I think that the Paradigm Premier 800Fs are worth looking at as well for a restrained aesthetic when grille is on along a great sound.

Btw- I listened to both the Triton 5 and Triton 7 next to the Paradigm Premier 800's. I definitely liked the GE sound over Paradigm (I own Paradigms- originally my front soundstage then repurposed to surround duty, so I'm not a hater by any means). I ended up spending $700 on a pair of Emotiva T1's and about $300 on the C2, so the price of one GE Triton 5 for my entire front soundstage. I'm really happy with it. Being an ID manufacturer, your looking at a better value proposition than a brick and mortar store

I much prefer the sound of the 800Fs over the Golden Ear speakers I have heard. In my experience, Golden Ear speakers have boosted treble to emphasize detail. That will make them pop more in a showroom demo, but it can be fatiguing in the long run, and once you notice it, you can't un-notice it. The 800Fs are have a very balanced sound in comparison.

 

[slipperybidness]

With the grilles on, I would say that the SVS Prime Pinnacles are fairly minimalist. They sound good as well. I think that the Paradigm Premier 800Fs are worth looking at as well for a restrained aesthetic when grille is on along a great sound.

I much prefer the sound of the 800Fs over the Golden Ear speakers I have heard. In my experience, Golden Ear speakers have boosted treble to emphasize detail. That will make them pop more in a showroom demo, but it can be fatiguing in the long run, and once you notice it, you can't un-notice it. The 800Fs are have a very balanced sound in comparison.

I have never noticed boosted treble, and especially not fatigued ears with extended GE T2 listening. In fact, I would say the highs are incredible smooth on the GE T2. I do think they are incredibly detailed. However, I have seen the FR graphs, so the measurements do support your claim--did you see the measurements before you listened or vice-versa?

I will say that I prefer the Fountek Ribbons on my Phils! But likely splitting hairs.

I have not heard any of the new Pardigms yet.

 

[NorCalRP]

How do you think the Emo tweeter (and speaker in general) compares to the GE tweeter (and speaker in general).

I own the GE T2, and I have a set of the Emo Slim Bookshelves with that emo air motion tweeter. I may end up using the T2 as mains in 5.1, and the Emos as my surrounds. But, I haven't listened side-by-side or in 5.1 yet.

Any insight? Do the emos timber match the GE OK? How about T2 mains and Emo center?

Great question. I wasn't able to listen to them side by side, so this is kind of an educated guess. I feel like the GE had a wider, more cohesive soundstage. I listened to them off axis and everything sounded in the right place. My measure of upper midrange to high frequencies is how the Fender Rhodes sounds in the song Chameleon by Herbie Hancock. It sounded spot on. With the Emos the keys also sounded spot on, but their off axis response doesn't seem to be as good to me. Maybe it's the difference between the HVFR- on the GEs and the AMT. I'll say this though- at well less than half the price of the GEs, I'm thrilled with my Emos

 

[slipperybidness]

Great question. I wasn't able to listen to them side by side, so this is kind of an educated guess. I feel like the GE had a wider, more cohesive soundstage. I listened to them off axis and everything sounded in the right place. My measure of upper midrange to high frequencies is how the Fender Rhodes sounds in the song Chameleon by Herbie Hancock. It sounded spot on. With the Emos the keys also sounded spot on, but their off axis response doesn't seem to be as good to me. Maybe it's the difference between the HVFR- on the GEs and the AMT. I'll say this though- at well less than half the price of the GEs, I'm thrilled with my Emos

Yeah, with my limited time on the Emos, I was quite impressed. I bought them on closeout for like $160 or so, it was kind of an impulse buy at that price. I figured they may play nice as surrounds for my GEs, but I just haven't had time to play with all of my toys.

 

[NorCalRP]

Right, Best Buy doesn't carry GoldenEar - oddly enough it's hard to find any showrooms even in NYC that have certain models on display. (Currently having trouble finding anywhere I can hear the Triton Three+).

If my goal is minimalism, and am really trying to avoid a separate subwoofer, do you think any of the Triton series (minus the top $$$ end) would be able to deliver enough low & sub bass to bring music to life? (Again, if I'm not super concerned with house-shaking low end for movies)

When I demo'd the 5, I asked the salesman about the 3, and rather than trying to upsell me he opined that the 3 has an identity crisis in that it's not the same type of value as the 5 and doesn't hold a candle to the 2. Enough bass is subjective, so I couldn't really say. I thought for what they had the 5s were pretty impressive, but as soon as a sub gets thrown into the mix I find the bass of the 5 lacking- I really like bass though

 

[NorCalRP]

Yeah, with my limited time on the Emos, I was quite impressed. I bought them on closeout for like $160 or so, it was kind of an impulse buy at that price. I figured they may play nice as surrounds for my GEs, but I just haven't had time to play with all of my toys.

I'd be surprised if they didn't, but I'm pretty naive by comparison to some of the folks in this thread.

 

[Timforhifi]

I’ve owned definitive bp7000sc an bp7001sc. These were the last good definitive speakers. I tried the 8080 towers for two weeks in my house and I was shocked how they were a downgrade from the bp7002 I had in another room. Then I had a friend that bought bp9080 setup and he thought it was ok but sold after a couple months and went back to bp30 and clr3000 combo.

recently I did a massive speaker search, looking for my favorite. I looked at all the Goldenear, bowers 700 series, monitor audio silver and gold, MartinLogan motion, paradigm, revel, Sonus Faber, focal and canton. Probably missed a few but my favorite was the canton 896.2 and next was the monitor audio silver 500. Focal 948 was great too! I thought the Goldenear was ok but was really at the bottom of my list after demos. The canton vento 896.2 easily beat the GE reference towers. Says a ton about great engineering. The canton have a smooth extended high with a full mid and tight bass extension. The bass isn’t far from reference GE in terms of output too. I’m using a onkyo rz920 in pre amp mode with my B&k 200.5s2 reference power amp. Just makes these canton sing with its class a stage and big solid state power.

I guess the real question I should ask is what’s your budget?

 

[Kvn_Walker]

The main reason I don't like them is because I don't like putting Amps inside speakers. I prefer my amps to be outside the speakers. I think there is a reason why many speakers have a 5-10 YR warranty, but the amps inside them only have a 1-3 YR warranty.

Kind of how I feel about my washing machine.

TEN YEAR WARRANTY!*

*on motor and drum

Give me 10 years on your lowest-bidder Chinese electronics and then I'll be impressed.

If one of my amps die, I can at least get a used receiver off Craigslist for $50 same-day until I can get the amp fixed or buy another. If said amp is required for the speaker to even operate, then all aboard the SOL Express!