Tired of EP2500. Need replacement ideas.

[monsterman]

I will point out.... The amp only gets hot...when pushed very very hard. It seems to be a threshold that
anything below level 27 on the gain tab the amp is absolutely fine
but when I start pushing my entire system to the max for anything over 5 minutes the amp will heat then get hot!!!! and it will not cool down and I have to shut it off.
After reflecting on the issues at hand I have decided that IF I want a quite powerful amp ...don't turn the gain up past 27 (which is really enough juice I just push EVERYTHING TO THE LIMIT).
90% of the time I use the amp normally which is why I absolutely require "quite" functioning of the amp day to day. I realize that with this amp I should be happy and I have adjusted my expectations accordingly. My townhouse's circuits can't handle my electronics anyway so I really shouldn't be pushing everything so hard.
I will post back the results after fixing the short inside of my speaker box. I work 7 days/week so it might take a minute to get back.

This is the official thank you to everyone who gave helpful comments.

 

[TLS Guy]

I will point out.... The amp only gets hot...when pushed very very hard. It seems to be a threshold that
anything below level 27 on the gain tab the amp is absolutely fine
but when I start pushing my entire system to the max for anything over 5 minutes the amp will heat then get hot!!!! and it will not cool down and I have to shut it off.
After reflecting on the issues at hand I have decided that IF I want a quite powerful amp ...don't turn the gain up past 27 (which is really enough juice I just push EVERYTHING TO THE LIMIT).
90% of the time I use the amp normally which is why I absolutely require "quite" functioning of the amp day to day. I realize that with this amp I should be happy and I have adjusted my expectations accordingly. My townhouse's circuits can't handle my electronics anyway so I really shouldn't be pushing everything so hard.
I will post back the results after fixing the short inside of my speaker box. I work 7 days/week so it might take a minute to get back.

This is the official thank you to everyone who gave helpful comments.

You have proved to yourself that the db scale is log and not linear, haven't you?

 

[highfigh]

I will point out.... The amp only gets hot...when pushed very very hard. It seems to be a threshold that
anything below level 27 on the gain tab the amp is absolutely fine
but when I start pushing my entire system to the max for anything over 5 minutes the amp will heat then get hot!!!! and it will not cool down and I have to shut it off.
After reflecting on the issues at hand I have decided that IF I want a quite powerful amp ...don't turn the gain up past 27 (which is really enough juice I just push EVERYTHING TO THE LIMIT).
90% of the time I use the amp normally which is why I absolutely require "quite" functioning of the amp day to day. I realize that with this amp I should be happy and I have adjusted my expectations accordingly. My townhouse's circuits can't handle my electronics anyway so I really shouldn't be pushing everything so hard.
I will post back the results after fixing the short inside of my speaker box. I work 7 days/week so it might take a minute to get back.

This is the official thank you to everyone who gave helpful comments.

This is from the Behringer site-
"2 x 1,200 Watts into 2 Ohms; 2,400 Watts into 4 Ohms bridged operation"

You have said you push the amp at times and I think we need to clarify a couple of things. Your system should be on at least one dedicated circuit. No amp is 100% efficient and many aren't much more than 70%. The EP2500 manual indicates that a 15A circuit is needed for this amp. Not a 15A circuit that's shared by other equipment, though. The Ohm's Law power formula (P=I x E) would show that at 15Atimes 120VAC =1800Watts, so the 2400W rating can't be for continuous operation. Since we don't listen to sine waves, this is fine. When something draws a lot of current, the voltage drops and if the output is to remain constant, the device has to draw more current. More current means the device will run hotter than normal and this may be your problem. I'm not sure you have a short in the speaker.

If you can, use a voltmeter to monitor your line voltage while you use the amp the way you normally do. If it drops significantly, the best thing you can do is install a dedicated 20A circuit for this amp, on the same phase as the rest of the system. Your equipment will be happier and since heat kills everything, your equipment will last longer. Power supply voltage is absolutely paramount if a system is to work as designed. Engineers care about this but marketing departments don't. Marketing says that big numbers are best but they're afraid to tell people that they should install a heavier duty circuit because it may mean the amp's sales could suffer. If someone really wants an amp like this, they should get one but it should be known that it has specific electrical supply demands. If you have a basement under the receptacle used for the system, running a new circuit should be easy enough.

 

[Josuah]

It seems to be a threshold that
anything below level 27 on the gain tab the amp is absolutely fine
but when I start pushing my entire system to the max for anything over 5 minutes the amp will heat then get hot!!!!

The gain knob setting doesn't matter. That's just the gain of the incoming signal. If you lower the EP2500 gain knob but increase the input signal, you are still asking the amp to put out the same amount of power.

The EP2500 has two lights in front for each output channel. A clip light and a signal light. The signal light only flickers when outputting moderate or high power. When the signal light is steady off, it's still doing work, just not as much.

A warning should be if the signal light is mostly on or the clip light turns on. In which case, you need a second amp (on a second circuit). The scene in The Dark Knight where my EP2500 needed to pull some serious temporary amperage (15A+) did have the signal light on quite a bit and the clip light on a few times for a fraction of a second.

You never want to see the clip light turn on.

 

[WaynePflughaupt]

I was thinking about my response but it was too late to edit it... These have forced air cooling and as long as the path isn't blocked, it should work fine and the need to use all of the available space in a rack is the reason forced air cooling exists.

Exactly. Notice, no space-between here...

LD Systems' Sarah Brightman Tour, utilizing eighty EV P3000RL amplifiers​

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[MidnightSensi]

If you want more output on a given circuit, find the frequency where the minimum impedence is on your subwoofer(s) and cut the magnitude at that frequency. This should give you some extra headroom elsewhere and help keep it from clipping.

Also, always use a limiter so that the clip light never lights. Set the gain and limiter using pink noise and keep the limiter a bit under where the amp clips. If you don't have a limiter, some receivers have a similar function (they call it like a bass limit or something).

My opinion, though, is that subs should always have a limiter, even in a home theater. Cheap insurance, never hear funny noises.

You can also try another amp, like a Crest CD or a Crown iTech. They are more efficient and you'll get more out of your circuit.

 

[monsterman]

The gain knob setting doesn't matter. That's just the gain of the incoming signal. If you lower the EP2500 gain knob but increase the input signal, you are still asking the amp to put out the same amount of power.

The EP2500 has two lights in front for each output channel. A clip light and a signal light. The signal light only flickers when outputting moderate or high power. When the signal light is steady off, it's still doing work, just not as much.

A warning should be if the signal light is mostly on or the clip light turns on. In which case, you need a second amp (on a second circuit). The scene in The Dark Knight where my EP2500 needed to pull some serious temporary amperage (15A+) did have the signal light on quite a bit and the clip light on a few times for a fraction of a second.

You never want to see the clip light turn on.

The signal light is certainly on quite often. I never really played it so loud that the clip light came on consistently but, when turned up, it will come on when a significant bass line plays. Almost exclusive to rap songs.

 

[highfigh]

Exactly. Notice, no space-between here...


Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

And once again, because we can't edit after a short time, I didn't add the part about amps that use convection cooling not being placed on top of other equipment but since these are forced air cooling, it reinforces my point about pro audio equipment not going in places where a bit of fan noise won't be tolerated. Amps and cable boxes don't need to be in the same area as the listeners/viewers. That alone eliminates the problem.

 

[highfigh]

Exactly. Notice, no space-between here...

LD Systems' Sarah Brightman Tour, utilizing eighty EV P3000RL amplifiers​

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Nice starter system- when does it get the upgrades?

 

[Shock]

rap songs.

Well there's your problem.

 

[monsterman]

Okay...So I had an opportunity to check for the short in the circuit believed to be in the speaker box. It was not a short in the speaker box.

I have unplugged everything and when I reset the fuse on the back of the amp it will sound like "mmmmmmmhpop" and then pop the fuse back out... all in the span of literally one second. Any idea's? I purchased this amp used from a fellow who said they certainly used it at a number of gigs It could be the end of this sucker? Perhaps get a EP4000 ... then much later on when I buy another sub I can power both.

 

[TLS Guy]

Okay...So I had an opportunity to check for the short in the circuit believed to be in the speaker box. It was not a short in the speaker box.

I have unplugged everything and when I reset the fuse on the back of the amp it will sound like "mmmmmmmhpop" and then pop the fuse back out... all in the span of literally one second. Any idea's? I purchased this amp used from a fellow who said they certainly used it at a number of gigs It could be the end of this sucker? Perhaps get a EP4000 ... then much later on when I buy another sub I can power both.

It sounds as if something very bad has happened. If you heat amps up like that you will run into serious problems sooner rather than later as you have found out. All solid state devices have a temperature time survival curve. As temperature increases device life declines exponentially. So I have to say I was anticipating this shoe dropping.

 

[Seth=L]

Okay...So I had an opportunity to check for the short in the circuit believed to be in the speaker box. It was not a short in the speaker box.

I have unplugged everything and when I reset the fuse on the back of the amp it will sound like "mmmmmmmhpop" and then pop the fuse back out... all in the span of literally one second. Any idea's? I purchased this amp used from a fellow who said they certainly used it at a number of gigs It could be the end of this sucker? Perhaps get a EP4000 ... then much later on when I buy another sub I can power both.

The EP2500 and EP4000 are the same amplifier, it's just the new model with revised published specifications, the internals are the same.

 

[Codifus]

Okay...So I had an opportunity to check for the short in the circuit believed to be in the speaker box. It was not a short in the speaker box.

I have unplugged everything and when I reset the fuse on the back of the amp it will sound like "mmmmmmmhpop" and then pop the fuse back out... all in the span of literally one second. Any idea's? I purchased this amp used from a fellow who said they certainly used it at a number of gigs It could be the end of this sucker? Perhaps get a EP4000 ... then much later on when I buy another sub I can power both.

Maybe just get another EP 2500 or 4000, they aren't as different as the model number suggests. Just remember to;

try it in non-bridged mode.
not sit it on the carpet.
don't do the fan mod.

Or, maybe do the fan mod to a fan with higher CFMs.

I like the woofer ripping, amplifier stressing, bone crushing deep bass of hip-hop and rap music too.

CD

 

[monsterman]

It sounds as if something very bad has happened. If you heat amps up like that you will run into serious problems sooner rather than later as you have found out. All solid state devices have a temperature time survival curve. As temperature increases device life declines exponentially. So I have to say I was anticipating this shoe dropping.

Good... So I've finally killed my amp!

 

[TLS Guy]

Good... So I've finally killed my amp!

Unless you have some self reflection, it won't be the last amp you kill.

Low efficiency sub + high spl. from mind numbing continuous thumping bass = blown output devices and drivers

You have three ways out.

Play at a much lower level.

Go into massive debt to by a power amp in a price range far beyond anything you could reasonably afford.

Get a much more efficient sub.

Unless you make one or more of those changes history will re visit you. I can give you a guarantee.

BTW, You may have been frying the driver voice coil, and shorting VC turns. So the driver may well have been lowering its impedance and dropping its efficiency further, contributing to your heating problem. So before you connect another amp to that driver, you need to check the DC resistance of that driver voice coil. If the DC resistance is below spec, you have further blood on your hands.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Unless you have some self reflection, it won't be the last amp you kill.

Low efficiency sub + high spl. from mind numbing continuous thumping bass = blown output devices.

You have three ways out.

Play at a much lower level.

Go into massive debt to by a power amp in a price range far beyond anything you could reasonably afford.

Get a much more efficient sub.

Unless you make one or more of those changes history will re visit you. I can give you a guarantee.

Might I add that it won't just be an amp he'll kill. Can you say "hearing aid"?

 

[monsterman]

Unless you have some self reflection, it won't be the last amp you kill.

Low efficiency sub + high spl. from mind numbing continuous thumping bass = blown output devices and drivers

You have three ways out.

Play at a much lower level.

Go into massive debt to by a power amp in a price range far beyond anything you could reasonably afford.

Get a much more efficient sub.

Unless you make one or more of those changes history will re visit you. I can give you a guarantee.

BTW, You may have been frying the driver voice coil, and shorting VC turns. So the driver may well have been lowering its impedance and dropping its efficiency further, contributing to your heating problem. So before you connect another amp to that driver, you need to check the DC resistance of that driver voice coil. If the DC resistance is below spec, you have further blood on your hands.

Well, I can learn from this. I certainly don't want to buy another Sub. I will check the resistance and post back results.

 

[WmAx]

Well, I can learn from this. I certainly don't want to buy another Sub. I will check the resistance and post back results.

Whoa.... hold on. TLS Guy may be jumping to some unproven conclusions.

The TC Sounds TC2000 safely handles 2000 RMS amplifiers under constant high power conditions. The device was specifically designed for high abuse and massive power input. The testing at hometheatershack demonstrated a 2000+ watt amplifier was LIMITING the tests, not the TC 2000. Reliability is very high for these drivers used under massive power conditions.

The other issue is that TLS seems to assume the EP2500 is not a high quality high power amplifier. This is absolutely false, of course. In the case it was damaged/overheated, this would be directly related to using the much lower CFM low SPL fan in place of the high CFM OEM fan. Normally not a problem, as most people don't run the amps anywhere near capacity for extended continuous periods in a home setting as you claim to be doing. The amp was specifically designed to be able to operate continuously at near full capacity, but only with the cooling system working at maximum efficiency. You have reduced cooling efficiency by a bare minimum of 1/2, by using the low CFM, super low SPL replacement fan.

Now, you may not have damaged the amp 'yet'. Remove the super low SPL fan and put back in the OEM or other equivalent CFM device. Use a suitable power rated potentiometer to quiet the fan for critical music listening (where not much continous power is needed from the Ep2500). For party music, or reference level HT use, crank the potentiometer up so the fan operates at full speed.

-Chris5

 

[lsiberian]

The EP2500 can take a 20amp load. If you need more than that you are gonna need an electrician. Put the stock fan back in if necessary. You might also try adding external cooling.