Thinking about adding an amp?

mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
mulester7....and it's clean said:
How is it not transparent???


....my Mac solid-state pre-amp adds plenty of compression effect,


How is that? What is it doing? Where in th espec do you read this???
Thechnical explanation is good too.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
GaryZ06 said:
Not in the volume sense but a fatter and fuller sound.I could turn it up louder without any trace of distortion.
GaryZ06 said:
A fatter, fuller sound??? What is that? Where does it show up on th espec sheets???
 
mulester7

mulester7

Audioholic Samurai
mtrycrafts said:
Yep, it has lots of power into 2 ohms but useless the speaker load doesn't dip that low, it doesn't matter, right?

Furthermore, if you cannot drive it loud enough to use all the power of that amp because it would blow the speaker, what good is that extra power??? ;)
....Mtrycrafts, it's 4 am here, and I just got through starting a six gallon load of dead chicken sauce....I make a lot of this stuff, and I've got the friends and neighbors who pour it down the drain to prove it.....

.....what a large amount of headroom does to speakers must be experienced....and this "two mains paralleled thing", is pretty good so far, as long as I have rear presence influence....you just gotta' hear it, Mtrycrafts, the low end is tight, and I mean tight....and fatter, and fuller, with more punch, as Z06 said, what was his first name?....oh well, anyway, when you know beyond a doubt, is when you attain reference levels sipping off about 700-800 watts, that's when you know....lotsa' watts now, be careful of a bass spike or something strong low....you'll have many watts to drive things into the base-plates quickly....I did that once with my mains....sounded like somebody struck two pieces of bright metal together at that end of the room....I backed off the volume quick.....Privateer, who wants 1200 continuous for three days, anywho?, haha....huh?.....it's not just the extra watts lying around getting fat, it's 1000 of them guys looking down and ready to back up the few being used....the amp is idling at moderate levels....there's a difference at reference levels, and the amp is not far above still idling....the main difference is the fullness and tight low authority....to bed.....will go to the car shop about 3p......
 
brian32672

brian32672

Banned
mulester7 said:
I just got through starting a six gallon load of dead chicken sauce....I make a lot of this stuff, and I've got the friends and neighbors who pour it down the drain to prove it.
Hey, why don't you send me some to sample.....
Ok, now back to your topic.... :D
 
I

indcrimdefense

Audioholic
Enrique,

I currently have a 2805 receiver, & have been looking at going to seperates primarily for better sound quality on the music end, have been generally satisfied on the home theater end. Have demoed Rotel & Cary amps, and preprocessors as well, and waiting on demos from Parasound Halo, B&K & Krell. Adding an amp to a receiver can make a very noticeable difference, at all listening levels. However, the amount of improvement depends on what receiver & what amp. I'm not a techie, and do review spec sheets, but there is more to sound reproduction than simply looking at spec sheets. I trust what I hear, and more importantly, am not willing to spend my hard earned money adding components simply for show. I don't care what anyone else thinks of my system, I care about how it sounds to me. The Rotel 1080 is a nice amp, but the Cary Audio Cinema 5 produced a better sound quality to my ear. However, as important as the amp is the quality of components it's hooked to. The Rotel amp sounded good on my 2805, and was a noticeable improvement over the receiver powering the speakers, but not as good as when the Rotel was hooked to a Cary Cinema 6 processor, and best of all was the Cary pro/amp combo. I'm unwilling to comment on components I have never heard, but I would be wary of buying a component based on a spec sheet without trying it in your system first. Find a dealer who will let you demo an amp, and maybe a processor as well, and see if you can tell a difference. If you can't tell a difference, you just saved alot of money. Everyone who heard the rotel/denon combo & the cary/cary combo prefered the latter, from friends of mine who could care less about stereo equipment to my dad who is now looking at upgrading his own system. I'm not necessarily saying that Cary Audio is the solution for you, I'm just advocating that you shop with your ears & review spec sheets as well. I didn't compare all the specs on the Rotel v. the Cary, other than both were 200 a channel (when comparing I listened to the Cary only using 2 of the 5 channels), so there may be others specs which explain the vast difference in sound quality. Also it's important to keep in mind that the Cary is 4000 & Rotel's comparable 1095 (5x200) is only 2000. Adding an external amp, if properly done, will add body, broaden the soundstage, and increase the detail and clarity of the music. Done improperly, it will add nothing or perhaps decrease the sound quality. If you get the demo amp home, and find or don't find a noticeable difference, that will tell you what to do. Most of us are unwilling to pay for something that does not increase the sound quality of our system, regardless of whether we primarily listen (&watch) movies/tv or music. It's hard to know what to do until you demo components in your room, with your speakers, and hear how it sounds.
 
E

enrique

Full Audioholic
actually i'm not sorry i asked.It's kind of fun watching you guys.I guess i'm also learning in the process.
 
G

GaryZ06

Junior Audioholic
mtrycrafts said:
GaryZ06 said:
A fatter, fuller sound??? What is that? Where does it show up on the spec sheets???
Spec sheet? .....are you serious......to me a fatter and fuller sound is a feel ....can't explain it you just feel it.I don't need no spec sheet to imply this....I know music.....I have been playing drums in a heavy rock band for years.......The Outlaws made a difference to me....no placebo effect.
 
MacManNM

MacManNM

Banned
mtrycrafts said:
GaryZ06 said:
Not in the volume sense but a fatter and fuller sound.I could turn it up louder without any trace of distortion.
GaryZ06 said:
A fatter, fuller sound??? What is that? Where does it show up on th espec sheets???

Spec sheets, Spec sheets, when are you going to learn that the spec sheets LIE!
 
P

Privateer

Full Audioholic
.....Privateer, the class ""AB"" QSC RMX amps, would not need to be running more than probably 60 or 70 watts to make !LOUD!
So you assume that every speaker out there is running a sensitivity rating of 100db?

listening....I'm glad you brought up the McIntosh 1201 mono slaver....now Mac is underrated on watts, so let's say it puts out 1400....and it's clean, sure, but NOT transparent by my standards as per McIntosh....my Mac solid-state pre-amp adds plenty of compression effect, thanks
What Mcintosh pre amp are you running? If I know you it will be an old vintage Mcintosh which probably was not there top end even when it was new or you have had it for so long that the pre amp needs to be reconditioned. What the hell does your Mcintosh pre amp have to do with the MC1201? As for trusting you the word "transparent" I think not, hell you thought your bose 901's were transparent.

.....and it's QUALITY for those who seek it's timbre, Brian....but it's $7500, and there ain't no discounts....well, not much, I called a local shop, and I'm pretty good at asking....what you need with McIntosh, is to call a dealership that has no showroom or storage, and only jobs the product to you by ordering it....they'll give it up more than the one here in Little Rock.....
Discounts? Why would you bring up anything to do with discounts on Mcintosh equipment? Do you expect the dealer to give you a discount just because? I receive discounts at my Mcintosh dealer because I have been buying from them for 5 years and I have spent $70,000 there.

We know this because of extensive evidence to support this??? Bias controlled to boot?
Show me a class D amp that can compete with a quality class A or AB amp.

I am pretty sure I was talking about blowing up the speakers with more power than it can safely handle, not the amp going up in smoke
That is true most speakers can not handle more than 100 watts but there are speakers in the higher end category that can handle 1200 watts.

Privateer, who wants 1200 continuous for three days, anywho?, haha....huh?.....
If you have quality equipment, a nice room setup, and speakers that can handle 1200 watts then the question answers its self.

it's not just the extra watts lying around getting fat, it's 1000 of them guys looking down and ready to back up the few being used....the amp is idling at moderate levels....there's a difference at reference levels, and the amp is not far above still idling
Not with the MC1201 because its harmonic distortion stays the same from 1 watt all the way up to 1200 watts.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
GaryZ06 said:
mtrycrafts said:

Spec sheet? .....are you serious......to me a fatter and fuller sound is a feel ....can't explain it you just feel it.I don't need no spec sheet to imply this....I know music.....I have been playing drums in a heavy rock band for years.......The Outlaws made a difference to me....no placebo effect.



No, I joke a lot, especially when it comes to audio voodoo and mythology ;)

So, one has to be able to feel this fatter sound? Which sense can do this best? My fingers? Eyes? Or, it is really up to ones brains to feel this? ;)

Very unusual for you to be immune to the placebo effect? What is your secret? Can you market this secret? You will be richer than Bill Gates if you can :D
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
enrique said:
actually i'm not sorry i asked.It's kind of fun watching you guys.I guess i'm also learning in the process.

Now you are into this :D
You never know where you pick up something new; that's the whole idea :)
 
Buckeyefan 1

Buckeyefan 1

Audioholic Ninja
Anyone who's ever built a car system knows that specs are useless. A 500 watt JL Audio amp is different than a 500 watt Pioneer, a 500 watt Alpine, or 500 watt Jensen. It's immediately apparent when driving subwoofers. No other driver demands the same type of power a woofer does. The better the amp, the better the bass response. If you're into car audio, 9 out of 10 times, you get what you pay for. Thankfully esoteric audio has not reached into the aftermarket car audio domain. When is the last time you saw a 22 yr old guy buying a Bose car amp to power his Krell bandpass subs (not to put Bose in the esoteric category, but as an example)? My point is that car amplifiers do sound different with similar specs. What makes home audio any different?
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
Buckeyefan 1 said:
Anyone who's ever built a car system knows that specs are useless. A 500 watt JL Audio amp is different than a 500 watt Pioneer, a 500 watt Alpine, or 500 watt Jensen.
Buckeyefan 1 said:
You mean the specs are the same? Exactly? Yet they are not the same?

Or, what is missing here?

It's immediately apparent when driving subwoofers. No other driver demands the same type of power a woofer does.


OK. And?

The better the amp, the better the bass response.

How so? Please explain ;)



If you're into car audio, 9 out of 10 times, you get what you pay for.


Is that because those companies are honest, compared to home audio? They don't rely on marketing to get your attension and $$$? ;)


My point is that car amplifiers do sound different with similar specs. What makes home audio any different?

How similar? How is the car audio science different form home audio science??
Many want to know ;)
 
mulester7

mulester7

Audioholic Samurai
mtrycrafts said:
[ The better the amp, the better the bass response.

How so? Please explain
.....Mtrycrafts, once again, you need to go listen to speakers rated about 200, being pushed by about 750 headroom....until you do that and listen to reference levels, you won't know, will you?....Buck blew the roof off the barn doing well saying amps are different, and especially trying to drive subwoofers....

.....Mac is just getting over a couple of weeks of a real bad tooth, the kind you have to take antibiotics for a week and come back....8 inch subs probably sound pretty decent....they would be very quick and would be good for music probably, but I've learned you get the job done better with wheelbarrows.....

.....Privateer, way to go, you're up to your butt in McIntosh, and you rose up on them back legs and remained a Gentleman....outstanding product this McIntosh....for an outstanding price....you didn't say much about the timbre/presence/warmness by compression-effect of McIntosh.....I have a C-26 pre-amp that probably could use cleaning and a little re-alligning, I'll admit....it's plenty good though, until I git another one.....

.....isn't our Administrator Gene an amazing technician as he checks out this equipment?....I'd say he's truly outstanding in his field....matter of fact, that's where I heard Clint first found Gene, out standing in his field.....


.....edit....Mtrycrafts done turned off his green light and went to order a QSC RMX 2450....I only wish I didn't feel the need to stay matched....
 
Last edited:
N

Nick250

Audioholic Samurai
Damned if this thread doesn't sound like esoteric cable proponents trying to explain the benefit of them to non believers. "fatter and fuller sound is a feel ....can't explain it you just feel it" so on and so forth.
 
jaxvon

jaxvon

Audioholic Ninja
I can think of at least one good reason to employ Captain Slave Amp...and that is headroom. If you're trying to drive an 8 Ohm speaker that is rated at 150W RMS with a receiver rated at 150W RMS, you're going to push the amp section beyond its limits and induce clipping. If you were trying to drive the same speaker with, say a Bryston 9BSST (600W into 8 ohms), you're not even going to come close to pushing the amp. Consequently, you're going to be giving that speaker clean power the whole time. And don't neglect transient peaks, where so many lesser amplifiers can't cut it. With certain peaks, amps are expected to deliver a LOT of power to the speakers, something a cheaper, less-powerful amp just can't do. Heck, let's compare some amps.

First up, an American Audio GX-300 amp. Rated at 300W into 8 ohms bridged. THD is <.1% at rated power into 8 ohms. Has a 100dB (unweighted) S/N ratio, +/-.2dB 20Hz-20kHz.

Price: $199.99 shipped


Now...the RE Designs LPNA 150 monoblocks

Each amp is rated at 75w into 8 ohms, .1% THD, .1dB down at 5Hz and .2dB down at 20kHz (full power). S/N Ratio is 95dB (A Weighted).

Price: $3295/pr


I wonder which is the better amplifier? The American Audio sure looks good on paper.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
jaxvon said:
I can think of at least one good reason to employ Captain Slave Amp...and that is headroom. If you're trying to drive an 8 Ohm speaker that is rated at 150W RMS with a receiver rated at 150W RMS, you're going to push the amp section beyond its limits and induce clipping. If you were trying to drive the same speaker with, say a Bryston 9BSST (600W into 8 ohms), you're not even going to come close to pushing the amp. Consequently, you're going to be giving that speaker clean power the whole time. And don't neglect transient peaks, where so many lesser amplifiers can't cut it. With certain peaks, amps are expected to deliver a LOT of power to the speakers, something a cheaper, less-powerful amp just can't do. Heck, let's compare some amps.

First up, an American Audio GX-300 amp. Rated at 300W into 8 ohms bridged. THD is <.1% at rated power into 8 ohms. Has a 100dB (unweighted) S/N ratio, +/-.2dB 20Hz-20kHz.

Price: $199.99 shipped


Now...the RE Designs LPNA 150 monoblocks

Each amp is rated at 75w into 8 ohms, .1% THD, .1dB down at 5Hz and .2dB down at 20kHz (full power). S/N Ratio is 95dB (A Weighted).

Price: $3295/pr


I wonder which is the better amplifier? The American Audio sure looks good on paper.
I thought we were talking about tweeters blowing? You will never put that much power into one, unless your speaker is the commercial one, very poor sensitivity, or you will just plain blow it.

Now if you have an overall speaker sensitivity issue, you may need a better amp for the peaks, otherwise, 150watts, about 22 dB about 112 db spl with 90 dB sensitive speaker? Not to mention the dynamic headroom.
 

Latest posts

newsletter

  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top