The Ultimate Battle : Stereo Performance of AVRs ?

[Verdinut]

I agree with the above.

In order to supply the higher current required for high dynamic peaks and/or low impedance speakers, the typical linear power supply requires a large transformer and large filter capacitors and those are expensive.

 

[lovinthehd]

Perhaps not. My point though was that on my initial audition, I assumed that the Integra was more detailed than the other two and in reality, what I was hearing was just a more powerful amp. When I told my story here I was met with responses that perhaps I was only hearing what my brain was telling me. If there is no difference in sound “quality” from one amp to another, how could certain speakers “pair” better? It all boils down to whether or not an amp has the power to drive a particular speaker correct?

Certain speakers have certain electrical properties that may match up (like impedance/sensitivity) along with your desired spl levels, but "pairing" is more appropriate for choosing a beverage with a meal The expectation bias can be powerful, tho....brains aren't all that accurate in this sense.

 

[Ernie Schmuntz]

Hey Gene and guys,
How about an ultimate test of "The Stereo Performance of AVRs?"
Same segment, same ranked AVRs battle on the best stereo reproduction ?
A bloodbath of the giants...
Yamaha vs. Denon vs. Marantz vs. Pioneer vs. Onkyo on the same Stereo Floorstanders SetUp !
That will be a hell of a review and a definite youtube hit for sure.

Best sounding I’ve owned was the Nakamichi AV-10. It’s a superb unit. This type of thing sure brings out the nasty in some folks.

 

[sterling shoote]

The OPs idea makes me think why the hell is stereo still what is shoved down our throats for most of the music we buy or rent? It's pretty clear that most folks today are not buying stereo equipment, they're buying AVRs for multi-channel pleasure from movies and MUSIC. It's infuriating that we do not therefore have a wealth of multi-channel music produced on SACD and BD discs today, since most folks have all they need to enjoy such music with just their home theater outfits. It's also frustrating that for what multi-channel music is out there, streaming services do not support it. I hear audiophiles tout their preferred streaming services for stereo and I think is this a joke, since no matter what the source for stereo, it all sounds the same from 256k to 24/192 no matter who is delivering it. For a real improvement in music depth and breadth these streamers should offer multi-channel, but they don't because we've all been conditioned to accept stereo.

 

[highfigh]

Or, just not sweat it at all. Just enjoy.

OK, read that out loud and tell us it makes sense.

 

[highfigh]

The OPs idea makes me think why the hell is stereo still what is shoved down our throats for most of the music we buy or rent? It's pretty clear that most folks today are not buying stereo equipment, they're buying AVRs for multi-channel pleasure from movies and MUSIC. It's infuriating that we do not therefore have a wealth of multi-channel music produced on SACD and BD discs today, since most folks have all they need to enjoy such music with just their home theater outfits. It's also frustrating that for what multi-channel music is out there, streaming services do not support it. I hear audiophiles tout their preferred streaming services for stereo and I think is this a joke, since no matter what the source for stereo, it all sounds the same from 256k to 24/192 no matter who is delivering it. For a real improvement in music depth and breadth these streamers should offer multi-channel, but they don't because we've all been conditioned to accept stereo.

It takes more time and skill to mix for multiple channels and both cost $$$$- it also requires more bandwidth for streaming.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

The OPs idea makes me think why the hell is stereo still what is shoved down our throats for most of the music we buy or rent? It's pretty clear that most folks today are not buying stereo equipment, they're buying AVRs for multi-channel pleasure from movies and MUSIC. It's infuriating that we do not therefore have a wealth of multi-channel music produced on SACD and BD discs today, since most folks have all they need to enjoy such music with just their home theater outfits. It's also frustrating that for what multi-channel music is out there, streaming services do not support it. I hear audiophiles tout their preferred streaming services for stereo and I think is this a joke, since no matter what the source for stereo, it all sounds the same from 256k to 24/192 no matter who is delivering it. For a real improvement in music depth and breadth these streamers should offer multi-channel, but they don't because we've all been conditioned to accept stereo.

I kinda feel the same way. Especially when you consider how studio music is recorded. It’s not like it’s actually recorded in stereo! There’s multiple tracks recorded, at DIFFERENT times often in separate rooms from one another on completely different days or weeks even. THEN an engineer puts it all together to make it sound like a group of musicians all together in one room at one time. I also have to laugh when people talk about stereo superiority and soooo faithfully recreating the performance in their rooms. While there certainly are recordings of actual performances in certain recording venues, I think the majority are mainly close mic’d small room recordings.

 

[Irvrobinson]

I kinda feel the same way. Especially when you consider how studio music is recorded. It’s not like it’s actually recorded in stereo! There’s multiple tracks recorded, at DIFFERENT times often in separate rooms from one another on completely different days or weeks even. THEN an engineer puts it all together to make it sound like a group of musicians all together in one room at one time. I also have to laugh when people talk about stereo superiority and soooo faithfully recreating the performance in their rooms. While there certainly are recordings of actual performances in certain recording venues, I think the majority are mainly close mic’d small room recordings.

That's often true for pop recordings, but not usually true for classical, acoustic jazz, and solo anything.

And for pop recordings, the producers know that the two most popular listening venues for pop music are earbuds attached to mobile devices and vehicles. For pop, anything in a home setting is a niche. And what are millennials buying for home listening? Vinyl.

 

[3db]

Where did the troll go?

 

[lovinthehd]

That's often true for pop recordings, but not usually true for classical, acoustic jazz, and solo anything.

And for pop recordings, the producers know that the two most popular listening venues for pop music are earbuds attached to mobile devices and vehicles. For pop, anything in a home setting is a niche. And what are millennials buying for home listening? Vinyl.

Well, maybe a few millennials are....still a relatively small amount. Aren't they listening to pop generally, too?

 

[Irvrobinson]

Well, maybe a few millennials are....still a relatively small amount. Aren't they listening to pop generally, too?

Vinyl is projected to outsell CDs this year, so a lot of people are buying LPs apparently. Two of four millennial couples in my family own vinyl, and both seem to buy classic rock. One is really into Elton John. Although a simple Bing search shows Cardi B is available on vinyl and available on Amazon. I am so old and out of it.

 

[lovinthehd]

Vinyl is projected to outsell CDs this year, so a lot of people are buying LPs apparently. Two of four millennial couples in my family own vinyl, and both seem to buy classic rock. One is really into Elton John. Although a simple Bing search shows Cardi B is available on vinyl and available on Amazon. I am so old and out of it.

Still, the overall buying of music is not on vinyl or cd. I guess its novel to the young ones who encounter vinyl now

 

[3db]

Still, the overall buying of music is not on vinyl or cd. I guess its novel to the young ones who encounter vinyl now

Or in my case, there some obscure blues artists and punk bands that have only released on vinyl and are not availabe for streaming or on CDs.

 

[lovinthehd]

Or in my case, there some obscure blues artists and punk bands that have only released on vinyl and are not availabe for streaming or on CDs.

Just referring to the mainstream rather than niches.

ps Plus, don't think record sales stats include used vinyl, do they?

 

[3db]

Just referring to the mainstream rather than niches.

ps Plus, don't think record sales stats include used vinyl, do they?

I dont believe used vinyl is compiled into the stats.

 

[sterling shoote]

It takes more time and skill to mix for multiple channels and both cost $$$$- it also requires more bandwidth for streaming.

Sure it does but the bottom line is record producers want to convince us that hi-res, without alluding to it being in ancient stereo, is the end all. It's what they want to feed us, not what is actually best. I'm sick of them playing us. On one hand we've got equipment that can give us fabulous multi-channel from any media and on the other, record producers and streamers who want to deliver stereo from their systems which just produce stereo. Interestingly enough, there are a few multi-channel music makers/producers/sellers which now have all of my business, like the Seattle Symphony multi-channel downloads from Acoustic Sounds. I can copy those FLAC downloads to thumb drive for gapless play via my OPPO 205. At any rate, I know I'm ranting. This topic just sets me off.

 

[Verdinut]

Half track and even quarter track 7½ inch speed tapes are superior to vinyl. If someone decided to resuscitate reel to reel tape recorders of a quality similar to that of the Revox machines, part of the young generation might be interested? It's always a question of demand though.
Columbia (CBS),Deutsch Grammophon, Everest, London, Philips and RCA were among the labels which released good stereo pre-recorded tapes in the 1960-70's. Some were also recorded using the Dolby B noise reduction system. I have several of them and it's a real delight to listen to them, and no clicks, no pops.

 

[BriReeves629]

Sure it does but the bottom line is record producers want to convince us that hi-res, without alluding to it being in ancient stereo, is the end all. It's what they want to feed us, not what is actually best. I'm sick of them playing us. On one hand we've got equipment that can give us fabulous multi-channel from any media and on the other, record producers and streamers who want to deliver stereo from their systems which just produce stereo. Interestingly enough, there are a few multi-channel music makers/producers/sellers which now have all of my business, like the Seattle Symphony multi-channel downloads from Acoustic Sounds. I can copy those FLAC downloads to thumb drive for gapless play via my OPPO 205. At any rate, I know I'm ranting. This topic just sets me off.

Could it have anything to do with the fact that dealers sell speakers for upwards of $10k a pair due to their ability to “3d image” in stereo? I have often wondered myself how the high end speaker market would be affected if music was mixed for 5.1 surround. It would certainly image much better than a 2 speaker system and accurate 3d imaging could be had for much less. When is the music industry going to catch up with movies?

 

[highfigh]

H

Sure it does but the bottom line is record producers want to convince us that hi-res, without alluding to it being in ancient stereo, is the end all. It's what they want to feed us, not what is actually best. I'm sick of them playing us. On one hand we've got equipment that can give us fabulous multi-channel from any media and on the other, record producers and streamers who want to deliver stereo from their systems which just produce stereo. Interestingly enough, there are a few multi-channel music makers/producers/sellers which now have all of my business, like the Seattle Symphony multi-channel downloads from Acoustic Sounds. I can copy those FLAC downloads to thumb drive for gapless play via my OPPO 205. At any rate, I know I'm ranting. This topic just sets me off.

How many great multi-channel recordings have you heard vs the really bad ones?

The recording industry is far from what it once was- if they won't recover their costs, they won't do it. Someone is paying for the remastering- the consumer. If they don't buy, it will stop.

 

[highfigh]

Could it have anything to do with the fact that dealers sell speakers for upwards of $10k a pair due to their ability to “3d image” in stereo? I have often wondered myself how the high end speaker market would be affected if music was mixed for 5.1 surround. It would certainly image much better than a 2 speaker system and accurate 3d imaging could be had for much less. When is the music industry going to catch up with movies?

Do instruments fly overhead? I hope not, especially pianos.