The Ultimate Battle : Stereo Performance of AVRs ?

[Pogre]

I actually wouldn't mind a good review of several popular brands of cables and interconnects.
On the technical side you could measure how consistently dimensions of the terminals are maintained including the "pull off force" required for RCA connections, how stiff vs pliable the cords are (maybe the bend radius at .5 lb force), and commentary on aesthetics!
If HDMI is included, their ability to meet all criteria for certification could actually get quite technically involved, but otherwise it would be a pretty simple array of tests and subjective experience.
But I would like a "best utilitarian cords" and "best boutique cord"! The best boutique cord would have to function well, but would include aesthetic considerations for those who include the look of their cords in the package of having a system to pride themselves in.

Should I shout "IT'S ALIVE!!" since it appears I may have just created a monster?

 

[KEW]

It can be a 2 parts review.
1- The point is to have the AVR that has best stereo performance, cause lots of people are using AVRs as stereo systems too. So we will learn who is the stereo king.

2- Best stereo performing AVR vs Stereo-only AMPs can be the 2nd part. Because everybody knows and admits that AVRs can't keep up with 2ch AMPs in terms of stereo. The best stereo performing AVR vs same segment stereo AMPs can be challenging and highly informative in that case...

You've been reading too many articles by The Absolute Sound! But even if you believe them, the answer to your question is it would depend on which speakers you used for the test, because they are always talking BS about the synergy between this brand amp and that brand speaker.
Among modern AVR's the basic pure direct through amp performance is quite capable of providing an accurate, clean amplified signal that has no audible distortion. If different companies actually had different sounds, that would measure as a deviation from the original signal (in other words, Distortion)!
You could perceive such a difference if you involved a weak receiver with speakers which provided a very difficult load.
However, the real differences between the different makers is what features they offer and how they decided to apply EQ.

 

[KEW]

You've been reading too many articles by The Absolute Sound! But even if you believe them, the answer to your question is it would depend on which speakers you used for the test, because they are always talking BS about the synergy between this brand amp and that brand speaker.
Among modern AVR's the basic pure direct through amp performance is quite capable of providing an accurate, clean amplified signal that has no audible distortion. If different companies actually had different sounds, that would measure as a deviation from the original signal (in other words, Distortion)!
You could perceive such a difference if you involved a weak receiver with speakers which provided a very difficult load.
However, the real differences between the different makers is what features they offer and how they decided to apply EQ.

@Discrete Output , you rated my above post as "dislike".
I am curious as to what aspect you dislike!

 

[Hobbit]

Aren't they all the same brand now?

 

[lovinthehd]

Aren't they all the same brand now?

Well, differing brands may be the only difference to an extent....and several currently are under the same ownership at Sound United (Denon, Marantz, Pioneer, Onkyo/Integra).

 

[Verdinut]

Ye

But I would like a "best utilitarian cords" and "best boutique cord"! The best boutique cord would have to function well, but would include aesthetic considerations for those who include the look of their cords in the package of having a system to pride themselves in.

Yeah! A nice boutique snake oil cord covered with real snake skin!

 

[Bucknekked]

I actually wouldn't mind a good "pull off force"..... how stiff vs pliable my cords are......, and commentary on aesthetics....of my... package.

I dunno. If you skim your post really quick, it sounds like a really interesting thing to do.
On another forum perhaps
Maybe I'm readin' something in to it that wasn't there..............

 

[Goliath]

I would love to see a comprehensive double blind test shootout between an AVR and several integrated amps just to shut up the naysayers.

I've heard too much "AVR's can't do stereo" or "you have to be tone deaf not to hear the difference". An actual shootout might not be definitive proof, but it would at least cast some doubts on the claims that audiophiles routinely make.

Even *if* AVRs were found to be sonically lacking compared to an equivalently priced stereo amp, the chances are - and I would bet good money on this - that the differences are no where close to as large as often claimed.

 

[ParisB]

I would love to see a comprehensive double blind test shootout between an AVR and several integrated amps just to shut up the naysayers.

I've heard too much "AVR's can't do stereo" or "you have to be tone deaf not to hear the difference". An actual shootout might not be definitive proof, but it would at least cast some doubts on the claims that audiophiles routinely make.

Even *if* AVRs were found to be sonically lacking compared to an equivalently priced stereo amp, the chances are - and I would bet good money on this - that the differences are no where close to as large as often claimed.

My favorite is when people try to describe equipment as "warm" or "bright"

 

[ryanosaur]

I would love to see a comprehensive double blind test shootout between an AVR and several integrated amps just to shut up the naysayers.

I've heard too much "AVR's can't do stereo" or "you have to be tone deaf not to hear the difference". An actual shootout might not be definitive proof, but it would at least cast some doubts on the claims that audiophiles routinely make.

Even *if* AVRs were found to be sonically lacking compared to an equivalently priced stereo amp, the chances are - and I would bet good money on this - that the differences are no where close to as large as often claimed.

Forgive my raw nerves, but f that! Somebody would still complain! Even if Drumpf told his supporters that AVRs were just as good, some dumb@$$ conspiracy hack would argue that it was jimmy fallon or a hoax...
People will believe what they want, unfortunately, regardless of fact. *sighs

 

[BriReeves629]

I’m confused. The L and R channels in a HT system ARE in Stereo right? Am I missing something?

 

[ryanosaur]

I’m confused. The L and R channels in a HT system ARE in Stereo right? Am I missing something?

Nope.
But somehow... not right?

 

[BriReeves629]

Nope.
But somehow... not right?

Your right. Why would these companies start rumors to convince you to buy two components when only one is needed?

 

[lovinthehd]

Your right. Why would these companies start rumors to convince you to buy two components when only one is needed?

Two? Let's see, need a separate tuner, dac, pre-amp, amp, DAP.....oh, and don't forget the special cables and interconnects!

 

[ryanosaur]

Two? Let's see, need a separate tuner, dac, pre-amp, amp, DAP.....oh, and don't forget the special cables and interconnects!

Don’t forget isolation pads and cable risers!!!!

 

[Good4it]

What is your scientific knowledge?
Explain with reliable proof that they don't, with brands, models and serious reviews and testing proving your assumptions.

Ever try to prove a negative?

 

[BriReeves629]

You've been reading too many articles by The Absolute Sound! But even if you believe them, the answer to your question is it would depend on which speakers you used for the test, because they are always talking BS about the synergy between this brand amp and that brand speaker.
Among modern AVR's the basic pure direct through amp performance is quite capable of providing an accurate, clean amplified signal that has no audible distortion. If different companies actually had different sounds, that would measure as a deviation from the original signal (in other words, Distortion)!
You could perceive such a difference if you involved a weak receiver with speakers which provided a very difficult load.
However, the real differences between the different makers is what features they offer and how they decided to apply EQ.

This is absolutely correct in my experience. For a while I thought my AVR out-performed in a blind test when I auditioned it because of the brand. When I went back and asked the guy at Best Buy, I was reminded that my $2500 Integra AVR did out perform a Pioneer and Denon that were $1000 less with significantly less power. I believe a lot of folks confuse loudness with sound quality. I DID. and have since went back to the store and realized that my mind was playing tricks. I have even debated on forums that speaker brands pair better or worse with specific amp brands. A newbie concept...

I have found however that different brands can have more “bang for buck” in specific price ranges so the questions about “better” should always include a budget. Such as “Does a $2000 AVR compete with a $2000 Integrated Amp. And which brands really provide the best value at the $2000 price point (for example).

 

[Swerd]

This is absolutely correct in my experience. For a while I thought my AVR out-performed in a blind test when I auditioned it because of the brand. When I went back and asked the guy at Best Buy…

Stop right there.

Uncritically believing "the guy at Best Buy" was not a wise decision. They have frequently been known to misguide customers before. That salesman may have been ignorant, motivated by sales commission, or both.

 

[BriReeves629]

Stop right there.

Uncritically believing "the guy at Best Buy" was not a wise decision. They have frequently been known to misguide customers before. That salesman may have been ignorant, motivated by sales commission, or both.

Perhaps not. My point though was that on my initial audition, I assumed that the Integra was more detailed than the other two and in reality, what I was hearing was just a more powerful amp. When I told my story here I was met with responses that perhaps I was only hearing what my brain was telling me. If there is no difference in sound “quality” from one amp to another, how could certain speakers “pair” better? It all boils down to whether or not an amp has the power to drive a particular speaker correct?

 

[Swerd]

Perhaps not. My point though was that on my initial audition, I assumed that the Integra was more detailed than the other two and in reality, what I was hearing was just a more powerful amp. When I told my story here I was met with responses that perhaps I was only hearing what my brain was telling me. If there is no difference in sound “quality” from one amp to another, how could certain speakers “pair” better? It all boils down to whether or not an amp has the power to drive a particular speaker correct?

Thanks for clarifying this. Most people here would readily agree.

An amp or receiver must deliver enough juice to easily drive speakers without clipping. Some speakers are easy to drive & others present a difficult load.

As long as different amps or receivers can do that, without electronic misbehavior, there should be little or no audible differences between them.