The Right To Bear Arms

[Tomorrow]

Well said chicagomd...


Rjbudz, the UK is basically a firearms free zone these days, even the police only carry firearms in special situations. Crime is crime and they have plenty to go around but they do have a much lower per capita rate of firearms violence than the US, or Canada for that matter...

Tithing the Queen may not have been such a bad idea afterall...

Up here I could do without the fact that she is still on some of our currency but hey, we did get our independance peacefully...it just took, in typical Canadian fashion, 91 years longer than it did for you...

Long live democracy in North America!

LOL, you may be right about tithing to the Queen.

But did you read the link to info on Switzerland? Every household must own a military weapon. Guess which large European democracy has the lowest crime rate. If you want REALLY REALLY low crime rates, well, there is always the harshness of a dictatorship. As Iraqis are finding out the hard way...dictatorship is much more peaceful and crime free. But which do you want...dictatorship or democracy?

And for chicagomd...those are basic tenets of the anti-gun lobby (politics as usual), always brought up in gun discussion. The fact is those are generally useless facts and questionable opinions. Those Second Amendment opinions are some anti-gunner's opine, stated and restated. Guns in the house are likely to be used against the owner? By whom...family members. (Choose your family well, lol.) And you know what else? Knives in the home are 3 times more likely to be used as a weapon against the owner. Shall we regulate, tax, and make private ownership of knives illegal?

And while we're throwing around statistics that can be misused and brutalized...here's one. More people in the U.S. are killed annually by doctor and nurse mistakes in hospitals than the entire group of gun killings, including police actions against criminals. FIVE times more! Shall we avoid hospitals? I assume you're an MD by your nickname. No wonder the malpractice insurance is sky high.

Facts remain. Without firearms, we are hopeless against political power (and would still be British citizens. We would have higher crime rates than we do now (which is too damn high). The average among us would be defenseless against any home (or anywhere) attacker. And forever ignored by the anti-gun lobby and always overstated by the pro-gun faction is....true...if you make guns illegal, only criminals will have guns.

One aside...I know we have some Auzzies on the forum. Perhaps they will chime in. They recently enacted strident gun regulations and the crime rate peaked. Those regulations are now being reconsidered.

 

[RJB]

Yes, I read the article on Switzerland. I have known about their defense strategy for a long time. They have however had a couple of incidents with the firearms issued for the citizen soldiers, the most recent one comes to mind as being only a couple of years ago, but I only mention it because people can and will go crazy, even in usually calm Switzerland.

That their system works at all is just amazing. Could it be due to cultural attitudes or maturity? If would have to think that their system would be a formula for disaster in most other countries on earth, including the industrialized western nations.

If I could figure out a way to bottle and export whatever it is that makes their system work I would make Bill Gates look poor.

 

[majorloser]

That is not true. Get a Class 2 license and it's all yours if you have the money. Here in Oregon, I have friends with several, legal, full-auto AR15s. They come with a BTF tax stamp that is a bit pricy, and the guns themselves are also pretty expensive.

And by the way, Oregon is a "Right To Carry" state and has a much lower crime rate than my birth state of California (with its Draconian gun laws). People like Sheep are ignoring two major issues. 1. It's proven time and again that more anti-gun laws = higher crime rate. (Gun ownership does deter crime.), and 2. The framers of our Constitution realized that we as a people could not be free of oppressive governance without arms ownership by the 'people'. Freedom! Without arms, Sheep, you and I would still be tithing to the Queen.

ANOTHER REASON TO MOVE TO OREGON!!!!

I am a happy gun owner and so is my wife. (She's also a better shot than me ) We were both brought up around guns. My dad was a cop (head of SWAT team) and her father was an avid hunter/shooter. We both learned at a young age not to touch the weapons and to respect firearms.

I also do not have any children........I agree that children should be taught to respect firearms no matter if you own them or not. A child will only learn what he has been taught or shown. By not owning a gun does not mean you are protecting your child from them. They still need to hear from their parents to stay the hell away from them and avoid situations where one is present. I was more afraid of my parents finding out then of the gun itself............................I guess things have changed since the 70's.

 

[ironlung]

"A gun kept in the home is 4 times more likely to be involved in an unintentional shooting, 7 times more likely to be used in a criminal assault or homicide, and 11 times more likely to be used to commit or attempt suicide, than to be used in self-defense."

A bowling ball on a high shelf is more likely to cause a head injury. Let's ban bowling balls or at least overhead shelving.

A butcher knife could be used to pop a lung in a human as easily as it's used to bone a chicken. Let's ban knives.

Someone could used a baseball bat to murder a person with little effort. Bats need to be banned also.

As for suicide I am considering D-CON rat poision, a electrical cord over a rafter in the garage to hang myself, jumping off a building over 10 storys. Maybe I will just sit in the garage with the car running or hop in front of a speeding car, truck or train. I would never use my 12ga for all the 'ammo' it would give the anti-gun folks.

D-CON, electrical cords, rafters, tall buildings, carbon monoxide, and moving cars, trucks and trains all need to be banned.

Accidents happen when people are negligent or uneducated.

If someone puts their mind to it the will criminally assault or murder even if it's just with their fists.

If someone truly wants to 'end it' you can do little to stop them.

Heres a novel Idea--------------->PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY and make the punishment for a crime truly punishment.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

When they refused to sell Levi's jeans in communist Russia, they were sold on the black market for hundreds of dollars. That's a good lesson for anyone who wants to outlaw handguns. You'll never take them out of the hands of criminals. They'll find a way to get them. Heck, every search the net?

I found a use for a pump action BB gun this morning. Blew a nut right out of a squirrels mouth who has found refuge in my attic. He's driving the family nuts - particularly myself. I won't shoot a deer, but I luv knocking off cute domestic squirrels.

 

[agabriel]

I'm a gun owner and I was taught at young age to respect them. When I was 11 or 12 one of my friends, whos folks were both cops was brandishing a snub nose 38spl in his house. I did as my father taught me, I left. He told me, when I was young, that I couldn't touch one unless he was there to make sure I stayed out of trouble. Whenever I wished to look at his, or shoot them, I could. I now own several myself, and I belong to a range where I can shoot them when I want. I have built a few handguns and rifles and take pleasure shooting them. People need to be responsible for there actions, however more laws are not the answer properly enforcment of current laws is the answer. I personally feel that proper use should be taught by schools to young children. Firearms are nothing to fear, however they are to be respected and knowledge can go a long way in terms of eliminating FUD and people getting hurt.

On a side note before the Military commissioned the M-16 most AR-15s built were full auto, several hundred of these were even deployed. After the M-16 was commisioned Colt converted the AR-15 to a semi rifle for general sale. The AR-15 is really great with just a little work it can be one of the most accurate semi rifles around. I built one that will keep three shots inside a dime at 200 yrds (it was strapped down with Blackhills ammo).

Keep 'em in the black

Anthony

 

[Sheep]

Chris Rock "Gun control...you don't need gun control, you need bullet control. Yes that right. Make a bullet cost 5000 dollars. Then crimes might look something like this.

Hey, I'd pop a cap in your as* if I could afford it. I gunna get another job, and open a savings account, then im gunna kill you *******************."

or something like that.

While guns are used for hunting, or, "pest control" I still think im better off without one. What if someone gets the gun from you? Then your really screwd. They know that you had the balls to come after them, they might just put you to sleep.

I like big knifes, Big sharp knifes
Plus, wouldn't it be more "fun" or "relieving" to punch someone's face until its mush? Like in Sin City?
Sheep

 

[mulester7]

I think, the less guns, the safer. Some argue the opposite, but they probly own a gun, and are willing to shoot someone.

.....statement of the thread so far, imo.....

 

[ironlung]

.....statement of the thread so far, imo.....

But what about the bowling balls, knives, D-CON, electrical cords, rafters, tall buildings, carbon monoxide, and moving cars, trucks and trains all need to be banned.

Imagine how safe we would all be then!

 

[Rock&Roll Ninja]

While guns are used for hunting, or, "pest control" I still think im better off without one. What if someone gets the gun from you? Then your really screwd.

I dunno, if a deer managed to get the rifle away from the hunter and then shoot him with it..... Well sir, that would certainly be one to tell the grandkids about.

 

[Tomorrow]

.....statement of the thread so far, imo.....

I think that's what King George said.

Tell ya what, Mulie. My wife works for the local PD. Send us your guns. We'll take care of them and get them out of circulation.

 

[mulester7]

But what about the bowling balls, knives, D-CON, electrical cords, rafters, tall buildings, carbon monoxide, and moving cars, trucks and trains all need to be banned.

....ok, close second.....

 

[j_garcia]

Chris Rock "Gun control...you don't need gun control, you need bullet control. Yes that right. Make a bullet cost 5000 dollars. Then crimes might look something like this.

Hey, I'd pop a cap in your as* if I could afford it. I gunna get another job, and open a savings account, then im gunna kill you *******************."

or something like that.

In that segment he said "Bullets should be $5000 each. THEN people would think a lot harder about whether or not to shoot someone.... DAYUM, you KNOW that mofo MUSTA done somethin' BAD...they pumped 50 grand worth of bullets in 'em."

 

[mulester7]

Tell ya what, Mulie. My wife works for the local PD. Send us your guns. We'll take care of them and get them out of circulation.

.....well,....well,....hey, we gotta' have duck burgers every now and then.....

.....RJBudz, I know a guy who owns some land up against the Arkansas River just outside NLR, and I go there sometimes and sit in a lawnchair on a river-levee, and skybust dove flying overhead leaving a huge milo field heading for some trees on the other side of the river....I sat there and shot four boxes of #6 loads one afternoon in about 30 minutes....we had fried dove breasts smothered in milk gravy quite a few times off that day....I love to hunt that which is flying....no chance of getting a fellow human, either, usually, haha....I love this 3-inch Magnum Browning....it can make all kinds of stuff fall out of the sky.....

 

[Sheep]

I dunno, if a deer managed to get the rifle away from the hunter and then shoot him with it..... Well sir, that would certainly be one to tell the grandkids about.

Thanks for cutting out the part of the sentence. If a robber, theif, crook, whatever floats your boat, sees you with a gun, and takes it from you, your screwed, literally, they will screw your gun into you using a hole in your body and then shoot....shoot to kill.

Someone, is generally not a deer, or animal. I don't know about you, but im not a fan of PETA.

If no one in the public had guns....NO ONE, the police would be a feared force no? This can be done, but most of you chant "From my cold dead hands!"


Sheep

 

[racquetman]

If no one in the public had guns....NO ONE, the police would be a feared force no? This can be done, but most of you chant "From my cold dead hands!"Sheep

This can be done? Are you trying to tell me you think the American public could be disarmed???

Criminals would still have guns, Sheep, just not law abiding citizens. This wouldn't help the police any.

 

[Rip Van Woofer]

Guns aren't the answer to crime. And really, as Audioholics I would think we could come up with more creative, non-lethal solutions. Like I have, for instance:

Our house is ringed by motion sensors. Large, high-efficiency horn drivers are hidden in trees, behind shrubs, and in the walls, connected to the sensors, suitable amplification and signal source. Any would-be intruder will be immobilized by a focused, high-intensity burst of Celine Dion at a minimum of 110dB before they get to a door or window. They'll only wish they were dead!

Keeps the deer and rabbits out of our garden, too. The petty carping and lawsuits from the neighbors is a small price to pay for our security.

Sure, it won't work for street crime...but Im working on it...

 

[The Dukester]

That's right, baby, from my cold, dead hands. If only I was Buddha. Ah, crikeys, that still wouldn't be enough. I have a bunch of 'em and love 'em all.

I agree with the stiffer penalties for crimes committed with a weapon. The heck with regulations. Anything goes. The cops should carry Uzis. No one else has said it so I will Guns don't kill; people do. If they don't have a gun, they will use whatever they can find. People have always killed. They unfortunately always will. It goes back to Cain and Able.

Safe use of guns comes from education. I think the more responsible people that have them the better. Gun education should be taught at home first and then also at school. When I was in school they taught us how to shoot bows and arrows; why not teach responsible gun use. They could use BB guns with a demonstration by the Phys Ed teacher of what a .44 will do. Shoot a full soda bottle of water and watch it explode. Make the water blood red color and explain that is what it would do to someone's head if you shoot them. Never ever point a gun at a person unless you intend to use it for self defense. If you do point it, you better use it or like has been mentioned, it might be taken from you and used on you.

I also agree with a lot of parents not caring about their kids. They don't even teach them manners, much less anything about sex education or proper gun use. They learn most of it from Hollywood, their peers and TV. Most of which is not the best example. Parents take responsibility for your youngins!

 

[HookedOnSound]

Why is everything backwards?

I have no problems with Law Abiding Citizens owning guns, it's the criminals with guns I'm worried about!

Instead of all this time and money spent on trying to disarm a non-threatening group why aren't they going after the real problem? I just don't get it?

In Canada, we have spent billions (X number of $$$ over budget) on forcing gun registrations and you know what? Violent crime has not decreased as a result of it. They need to provide stronger deterrents against these criminals.

Gun ownership should be allowed only with responsible use/ownership under the following conditions (hopefully alot of these rules should already be in place IMHO). There is probably a whole list that can be compiled but a key points that I consider important:

1. mandatory waiting period associated with purchase of guns
2. gun safety training and EXAMS Mandatory (they just don't let you buy a car and drive away do they?)
3. Under 18, should not be able to buy ammo or guns without consent/approval of the parents.
4. Law enforcement should be allowed to carry out safety inspections in the home on a regular basis (once every x number of years) for proper storage etc.
5. A mechanism to allow removal of guns from homes/ppl during instances domestic violences or threat of (mental illness, ugly divorces etc)
6. Handguns severely restricted
7. Fully Auto practically outlawed

On a note, no. 7 definitely is a pet peeve of mine. I don't care what anybody's argument is I will never agree with pro-automatic voters. I have taken gun safety and hunting course, one of the first things they teach you is don't aim a gun unless you are intent on killing something and don't shoot unless you know what you are shooting at. Nobody will ever convince and firing a fully automatic weapon can be done under a predictable/controlled situation. It's meant for one thing, mowing down whatever is in front of you! Like a Mack truck jumping a curb in front of a bus stop at the seniors home!

Every once in a while, you read stories about accidental shootings and fathers who kill themselves and their families from murder-suicides (usually related to mental problems and/or stress from a divorce etc - pick your reason). Every time I hear about kids dying from guns is just infuriates me!

I hope we can find some middle ground somewhere!

 

[sploo]

I too am unconvinced by the need for gun ownership. To me it's a little like the arguments people make about not wearing seatbelts in cars - they recite a tale about an aunt's-third-husband's-brother's-dog who was thrown from a crashing car and survived, and would probably have died in the car had they been wearing a belt. Of course, statistically they're massively more likely to die by not wear a belt.

Similarly, I keep hearing tales of people who chased away an intruder because they had a gun in the house. However, whenever I see cold hard facts on home gun ownership, it always seems it's much more likely that the owner, or a member of their family, is the one who (accidentally) takes a bullet.

Anyway, I think it's all a huge misunderstanding - the right to bare arms is actually a sunbathing proclamation .