The Jan 6 Commission hearings

[GO-NAD!]

do you think his party of 60 years ago has gotten better or worse ?

Greed........ it comes in red, blue and all shades in between !

Once upon a time, financial conflicts of interest - which are common in both parties* - might have been one of the most serious issues to be addressed. And there's nothing new about that. They were just as big a problem during JFK's time in office. But, right now, you have much larger concerns.

One of the most glaring being Manchin's ties to the coal industry.

 

[Trell]

Once upon a time, financial conflicts of interest - which are common in both parties* - might have been one of the most serious issues to be addressed. And there's nothing new about that. They were just as big a problem during JFK's time in office. But, right now, you have much larger concerns.

One of the most glaring being Manchin's ties to the coal industry.

Like the center-left in Europe and Canada, the Democrats have moved a lot to the right on economic policies since the 70’s/80’s, including regulations and taxes. Of course you know this but @Mikado463 is not talking about economics.

As for Senator Machin he has been stringing along President Biden as well as his party in bad faith negotiations, as far as I’ve read. It could be far worse, though, with a Republican controlled Senate.

 

[ryanosaur]

Greed........ it comes in red, blue and all shades in between !

This is true.
However, whether you agree with all of their policy or not, I have yet to see the Dems do things that screw over half the populace (or more) the way the Reps tend to do.
A great example is their tax policies that benefit the wealthiest individuals and Big Business yet routinely lean harder on the middle and lower classes.

I'm in the middle, here. I grew up in a conservative household, but prior to the takeover of the evangelicals and their social agenda.

no question the GOP is not the party my father and grandfather once embraced or I for that matter

So in this, I am in complete agreement.

The kicker is, I see less harm coming to the majority of Americans if I tend to support the Dems now over any other choice.
And so I do.

 

[OHMisback]

All of this talk of taking a president to trial and then convicting him/her of something. I find the whole thing a waste of time.
Three branches of government all equal. If there was to be a trial it should be a jury of your PIERS. I already see a huge problem.
I don't see a way via the constitution to try, convict, and then remove a president. Not by his piers any way. THEY would never
convict him because of "Jury Nullification" alone. The jury would be comprised of living X and current presidents.

It's not up to one branch of government to hold another to a different standard either, but presidents have long been beyond the
long arm of hearing or prosecution. There has always been massive corruption in the Whitehouse. After the civil war there was
a huge problem with "crony" payola and land grabs by any of the parties involved. If you were on the wrong side of "the party"
YOU wound up at the Alamo.
It was so bad by the time of Teddy Roosevelt, Teddy looked like a great guy. HE WASEN'T. He was completely off his nut.
I believe he had a whole bunch of veterans killed for protesting the lack of any medical or monetary relief from the US
government after fighting and being harmed/maimed. FDR wanted to become an Emperor of sorts. Kennedy couldn't be bought,
had his Dads agenda and stayed loaded most of the time. Good Lord!

A lot of left handed presidents. Close to 1/3. WHY?

I know of one guy qualified to be president in my minds eye, and I'm not running. I'd make Bill Clinton look like a choir boy. Bush JR
look like a genius, and Obama as if he did a lot of great things (NOT). I would be bigger than Trump (physically) and his bragging would
sound like Billy Graham's preaching compared to my BS ability. Biden, there is nothing I could do to top that one. He is a whopper, I couldn't
PLAN a worse strategy, he's doing fine. He is the worst I've ever seen. The biggest problem, I think it's them and in reality it's probably ME.

Jan. 6th hearings, LOL Liz Cheney, she is almost as slippery as he Daddy.. Almost. The most powerful VP that ever existed.

Rumsfeld had them all beat.. I got go take a shower, twice.. Talk about hoodwinked a whole country. Trump is BAD? LOL How many died
over there under previous Administrations and how many under Trump? He was a lot better to the military than any previous president. No
new wars either. That was a first. Sure had a big mouth and liked to Tweet, he was fat too. I don't like golf either.

I would have taken up sampling new types of cannabis and visiting all the different countries local whore houses. I would have made the
world a better place. I'd find out what happened to Hoffa too.

I liked Dwight Eisenhower.

Jan. 6th? Everybody is going to jail except Trump. LOL

 

[ryanosaur]

Bannon in contempt!

Oh the irony if he spends a year in an orange onesie!

 

[Dude#1279435]

All of this talk of taking a president to trial and then convicting him/her of something. I find the whole thing a waste of time.
Three branches of government all equal. If there was to be a trial it should be a jury of your PIERS. I already see a huge problem.
I don't see a way via the constitution to try, convict, and then remove a president. Not by his piers any way. THEY would never
convict him because of "Jury Nullification" alone. The jury would be comprised of living X and current presidents.

It's not up to one branch of government to hold another to a different standard either, but presidents have long been beyond the
long arm of hearing or prosecution. There has always been massive corruption in the Whitehouse. After the civil war there was
a huge problem with "crony" payola and land grabs by any of the parties involved. If you were on the wrong side of "the party"
YOU wound up at the Alamo.
It was so bad by the time of Teddy Roosevelt, Teddy looked like a great guy. HE WASEN'T. He was completely off his nut.
I believe he had a whole bunch of veterans killed for protesting the lack of any medical or monetary relief from the US
government after fighting and being harmed/maimed. FDR wanted to become an Emperor of sorts. Kennedy couldn't be bought,
had his Dads agenda and stayed loaded most of the time. Good Lord!

A lot of left handed presidents. Close to 1/3. WHY?

I know of one guy qualified to be president in my minds eye, and I'm not running. I'd make Bill Clinton look like a choir boy. Bush JR
look like a genius, and Obama as if he did a lot of great things (NOT). I would be bigger than Trump (physically) and his bragging would
sound like Billy Graham's preaching compared to my BS ability. Biden, there is nothing I could do to top that one. He is a whopper, I couldn't
PLAN a worse strategy, he's doing fine. He is the worst I've ever seen. The biggest problem, I think it's them and in reality it's probably ME.

Jan. 6th hearings, LOL Liz Cheney, she is almost as slippery as he Daddy.. Almost. The most powerful VP that ever existed.

Rumsfeld had them all beat.. I got go take a shower, twice.. Talk about hoodwinked a whole country. Trump is BAD? LOL How many died
over there under previous Administrations and how many under Trump? He was a lot better to the military than any previous president. No
new wars either. That was a first. Sure had a big mouth and liked to Tweet, he was fat too. I don't like golf either.

I would have taken up sampling new types of cannabis and visiting all the different countries local whore houses. I would have made the
world a better place. I'd find out what happened to Hoffa too.

I liked Dwight Eisenhower.

Jan. 6th? Everybody is going to jail except Trump. LOL

Trump might qualify for good economy but least respected. Quite the achievement.

 

[ryanosaur]

Trump might qualify for good economy but least respected.

His Tariff frenzy only hurt Americans, though. His policies cost US more money. And let's not forget how his administration ballooned the debt... (he was not responsible for covid, but during his time "in charge..." it counts against him) by 39%!

Donald Trump Built a National Debt So Big (Even Before the Pandemic) That It’ll Weigh Down the Economy for Years

The “King of Debt” promised to reduce the national debt — then his tax cuts made it surge. Add in the pandemic, and he oversaw the third-biggest deficit increase of any president.

www.propublica.org

Oh, and the inflation started during his watch...

Good economy?

 

[Mikado463]

His Tariff frenzy only hurt Americans, though. His policies cost US more money. And let's not forget how his administration ballooned the debt... (he was not responsible for covid, but during his time "in charge..." it counts against him) by 39%!

Donald Trump Built a National Debt So Big (Even Before the Pandemic) That It’ll Weigh Down the Economy for Years

The “King of Debt” promised to reduce the national debt — then his tax cuts made it surge. Add in the pandemic, and he oversaw the third-biggest deficit increase of any president.

www.propublica.org

Oh, and the inflation started during his watch...

Good economy?

no argument and to that we've gone into another incompetent Administration.........

 

[OHMisback]

Trump might qualify for good economy but least respected. Quite the achievement.

I think your right. But I didn't understand printing money and giving it away. That one really got me. That
was the biggest whopper he pulled. Man alive. Giving away money? I don't even see how you do that legally.
Give away taxpayers money? Blew my mind. I never ever liked Putin, he did, so it seems. Strange pair of spoiled
puppies for sure.

 

[ryanosaur]

no argument and to that we've gone into another incompetent Administration.........

What makes the Administration incompetent?
Congress, IMO. Mostly (Trump and co. was imcompetent on their own with half (at least) of the cabinet not being qualified for their positions).
I remember a time when the “opposition” party was actually still participating in Congress rather than trying to ensure the sitting president wasn’t re-elected by c0ck-blocking everything.

This is the biggest sin we face right now is that we allow Congress to be a farce.

FWIW, I will gladly vote against Feinstein if a reasonable candidate were to run against her. I would vote against Pelosi if I lived in The City, and again there was a good candidate to replace her.

 

[mtrycrafts]

And the latest headline I saw was that if he was re-elected, he would have weakened American security. I imagine for Putin so he could just roll right over Ukraine.

 

[Dude#1279435]

His Tariff frenzy only hurt Americans, though. His policies cost US more money. And let's not forget how his administration ballooned the debt... (he was not responsible for covid, but during his time "in charge..." it counts against him) by 39%!

Donald Trump Built a National Debt So Big (Even Before the Pandemic) That It’ll Weigh Down the Economy for Years

The “King of Debt” promised to reduce the national debt — then his tax cuts made it surge. Add in the pandemic, and he oversaw the third-biggest deficit increase of any president.

www.propublica.org

Oh, and the inflation started during his watch...

Good economy?

That's right. Not too good on tariffs, was he? LOL.

 

[Dude#1279435]

I think your right. But I didn't understand printing money and giving it away. That one really got me. That
was the biggest whopper he pulled. Man alive. Giving away money? I don't even see how you do that legally.
Give away taxpayers money? Blew my mind. I never ever liked Putin, he did, so it seems. Strange pair of spoiled
puppies for sure.

Wasn't his election loss just a slush fund? Donations from his base for I think his court cases. I remember someone saying their dad donated $500 LOL.

 

[lovinthehd]

Don't forget the drumphy campaign to collect funds to fight the legal battle for the election etc....and in some cases made it a sneaky subscription to get more money from you without actual permission. Just a peachy kind of grifter.

 

[Mr._Clark]

All of this talk of taking a president to trial and then convicting him/her of something. I find the whole thing a waste of time.
Three branches of government all equal. If there was to be a trial it should be a jury of your PIERS. I already see a huge problem.
I don't see a way via the constitution to try, convict, and then remove a president. Not by his piers any way. THEY would never
convict him because of "Jury Nullification" alone. The jury would be comprised of living X and current presidents.

No one is talking about "taking a president to trial." Trump is a private citizen. He's not the president, and he's not in office so he can't be removed.

He is not in any branch of government. Nevertheless, the three branches of the federal government are equal, but no one in any branch of government is above the law. It is true that a sitting President has virtually unlimited power to pardon those convicted of federal crimes, but that's a different issue.

I doubt that a jury of "piers" would convict Trump:

Definition of PIER

an intermediate support for the adjacent ends of two bridge spans; a structure (such as a breakwater) extending into navigable water for use as a landing place or promenade or to protect or form a harbor; a vertical structural support: such as… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

I also doubt that his peers are piers.

The right to a jury by peers does not mean that the jury would have to consist of Biden and living ex presidents:

>>>jury of one's peers

n. a guaranteed right of criminal defendants, in which "peer" means an "equal." This has been interpreted by courts to mean that the available jurors include a broad spectrum of the population, particularly of race, national origin and gender. Jury selection may include no process which excludes those of a particular race or intentionally narrows the spectrum of possible jurors. It does not mean that women are to be tried by women, Asians by Asians, or African Americans by African Americans.<<<

Legal Dictionary - Law.com

ALM's Law.com online Real Life Dictionary of the Law. The easiest-to-read, most user-friendly guide to legal terms. Use it free!

dictionary.law.com

Cutting to the chase, a former president can be indicted and tried for the same acts that resulted in impeachment:

>>>The Constitution permits a former President to be indicted and tried for the same offenses for which he was impeached by the House of Representatives and acquitted by the Senate.<<<

https://www.justice.gov/file/19386/download

 

[OHMisback]

a guaranteed right of criminal defendants, in which "peer" means an "equal." This has been interpreted by courts

So all people and the three branches are equal according to the courts. Except when it comes to the actual meaning of "peers" and the word "equal".
The constitution or the bill of rights is pretty clear. I can't think of a better document. Maybe the Gettysburg Address. What I find as a (somewhat normal) citizen is laws written that take up volumes. I find the "LAW" is one of the most corrupt institutions on earth. Especially when it comes VICE. Pure shake down artist with badges and guns. Then the whole snitch thing, who's worse the snitch or the cop workin' him/her and get's them killed. Happens all the time.

Back to Trump. The jury selection would have to be skewed. I don't see how a jury could be selected and then not expect a Jury Nullification. A Judge overruling any conviction or a Pardon from the next Republican President. Nixon should have held out just like Clinton. He panicked! Reagan in the Ollie North trials, "I can't recall". It's a pure waste just like Bill Clinton being plagued by the BS. The slippery ones like Hillary, lord helmet Cheney, Holder, Biden (as VP). Obama I'm not so sure. It's like he was never there, nothing remarkable to speak of. He did deport more people than any other president. He pulled a lot of crap. Teflon that guy.... LOL They all became filthy rich because of their good looks.. Right?

Trump came with his own debt and money. Then left with less debt and more money. He doesn't fit in any ones corner left or right he takes up the whole ring. Left right and both neutral corners. He was different. He sure helped a lot of veterans. No new wars. He's Nuts. I liked him. I liked Ross Perot, Ron and Rand Paul too. I'd do the job, but I'm enjoying retirement to much, screw going back to work. This is fun, for the most part. Being a president, what a PITA for the rest of your life, not to mention kids.

 

[Mr._Clark]

So all people and the three branches are equal according to the courts. Except when it comes to the actual meaning of "peers" and the word "equal".
The constitution or the bill of rights is pretty clear. I can't think of a better document. Maybe the Gettysburg Address. What I find as a (somewhat normal) citizen is laws written that take up volumes. I find the "LAW" is one of the most corrupt institutions on earth. Especially when it comes VICE. Pure shake down artist with badges and guns. Then the whole snitch thing, who's worse the snitch or the cop workin' him/her and get's them killed. Happens all the time.

Back to Trump. The jury selection would have to be skewed. I don't see how a jury could be selected and then not expect a Jury Nullification. A Judge overruling any conviction or a Pardon from the next Republican President. Nixon should have held out just like Clinton. He panicked! Reagan in the Ollie North trials, "I can't recall". It's a pure waste just like Bill Clinton being plagued by the BS. The slippery ones like Hillary, lord helmet Cheney, Holder, Biden (as VP). Obama I'm not so sure. It's like he was never there, nothing remarkable to speak of. He did deport more people than any other president. He pulled a lot of crap. Teflon that guy.... LOL They all became filthy rich because of their good looks.. Right?

Here is what you said: "The jury would be comprised of living X and current presidents."

Do you believe that this is correct?

 

[Dude#1279435]

Trump came with his own debt and money. Then left with less debt and more money. He doesn't fit in any ones corner left or right he takes up the whole ring. Left right and both neutral corners. He was different. He sure helped a lot of veterans. No new wars. He's Nuts. I liked him.

Did you like the rise of the alt-right and Trump's hate speak too? Not the era of Reagan optimism, eh?

 

[OHMisback]

I believe it is fair. Yes! Correct no. Nor do I think he will be put on trial and convicted. I just can't see it.

Like I said it would be a VERY bad day. The pot calling the kettle black or white or whatever color. It would be the absolute
decline of the US presidency, by our own hand. To tell the truth it doesn't need any help looking bad. Mercy

I'm much more concerned about Joe Biden's health and decisions, to tell the truth. Trump is a distraction and not a very good one at that.
I'm taking issue with the Pelosi goulash too. Cost 20 million for security so she can piss off the Pope (so to speak). Who is she to go anywhere?
Maybe it's a "get lost in the mail" coup d'etat, to get rid of her. As long as I can remember she has been around. Feinstein too.
Old as dirt the pair of them. We need to spread a little diplomacy vs signs of dementia or delusion. I don't think she really represents any of my
interest.

 

[OHMisback]

Did you like the rise of the alt-right and Trump's hate speak too? Not the era of Reagan optimism, eh?

I'm the first to admit Trump is a wild one. No, I don't care for anyone's hate speech. I also think a setting president should have
been a LOT more condemning of what took place Jan. 6. People were killed! They couldn't do anything to harm the county's
election. I still haven't figured out WHY anyone thought they could disrupt a US election by doing anything, with 1000 time the
people, much less the few that showed up. Are people just stupid? It's like throwing rocks at a polar bear. Think bigger.
I don't know who's advise it was to do that, but it was BAD.

If ANY president should have done something like this it was Al Gore. He GAVE the presidency he won, away.
That was reason enough, GAVE IT AWAY. What a dummy. Give away Alaska too, ay? Gotta' have stones not pebbles.
AND "carry a big stick". He was so honest we got 8 years of over the top unfettered spending and how many years of
war. When the US was to claim the oil fields to pay their war debt. That never happened, but we were flying cargo planes
full of money with ZERO accountability.. The money that was thrown at that "WAR" was nuts. To give it all back was nuttier.
They are ALL nuts.

I'm NOT now! But it does take one to know one.