The Jan 6 Commission hearings

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Dude#1279435

Audioholic Spartan

Trump also defended his actions on January 6th, when he spoke to supporters on the National Mall that morning.

'They were there with love in their heart. That was an unbelievable and it was a beautiful day,' he said of his rally. 'And what I was asked to do -- I wasn't involved in it very much. I was asked to come in and would I make a speech. I made a speech and I said walk peacefully and patriotically.'

He then blamed the insurrection on Pelosi, who was speaker at the time.

'Nancy Pelosi -- crazy Nancy as I affectionately call her. Crazy Nancy and the mayor of Washington D.C. were in charge of capitol security,' he said. The speaker is not in charge os security of the Capitol.
 
D

Dude#1279435

Audioholic Spartan

Trump also defended his actions on January 6th, when he spoke to supporters on the National Mall that morning.

'They were there with love in their heart. That was an unbelievable and it was a beautiful day,' he said of his rally. 'And what I was asked to do -- I wasn't involved in it very much. I was asked to come in and would I make a speech. I made a speech and I said walk peacefully and patriotically.'

He then blamed the insurrection on Pelosi, who was speaker at the time.

'Nancy Pelosi -- crazy Nancy as I affectionately call her. Crazy Nancy and the mayor of Washington D.C. were in charge of capitol security,' he said. The speaker is not in charge os security of the Capitol.
There's also a part in the column where Trump says, ' if you look at my text on the 5th I said stay peaceful' etc. During his speech on the 6th he mentions peaceful once with 90 minutes of hate speak. Granted nothing provable but highly fishy. I suspect Stop the Steal meant Stop the Steal to Trump since he never joined the protesters like he claimed he would during his speech.

Trump is really a shady human being and an instigator that goes back to his early rallies of 'Remember the good ole days when that person would have been sent out on a stretcher?!?!' It has enough comedy to it with an underlying intent to push hate and divisiveness. His unwillingness to accept defeat along the lines of narcissism and a deep deep disdain for accepting defeat because I'm guessing the usual grandiose image narcissists have of themselves.
 
D

Dude#1279435

Audioholic Spartan
Well bout all I can say is Trump will get the nomination, and with that he'd better win. Cause if he loses, and it's close, whew weee it could get ugly. Add in Biden better get goin on borders and add in possible election stealing from the RNP.
 
D

Dude#1279435

Audioholic Spartan
Actually now that I think on it Trump doesn't have any leverage to try and steal it. So that's positive anyway.
 
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Dude#1279435

Audioholic Spartan
Qanon Shaman is released for good time. (I'm actually happy for him believe it or not.) You too can own some q-shaman merch. :p
 
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Dude#1279435

Audioholic Spartan
As the saying goes, I wouldn't put it past him. Interesting theory anyway. Pay attention to the graph Melber has posted.
 
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fallawayj

Audiophyte
Trump is a born conman the sad thing he will never see a prison cell.I saw with my own eyes his traitor worthy acts on Jan.6. He could give a rats patoot about you or me he sees his supporters as rubes and feeds them obvious lies.I don't get it how can anyone support him.
Biden is too old (but did well his first term) and I bet the racist see a black female taking over sometime in the next term and are choking on their biscuits and gravy at the thought.I wonder how much racism is influencing the trumpers? Clearly age limits must be established for all branches of government and term limits should be placed on the supremes.
Sadly this country is in deep political poo.
Then of course theirs other fish to fry that could bite all of us such as Putin's war, global warming and the rise of China, ho hum just another day on this pale blue dot.
 
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Dude#1279435

Audioholic Spartan
Trump is a born conman the sad thing he will never see a prison cell.I saw with my own eyes his traitor worthy acts on Jan.6. He could give a rats patoot about you or me he sees his supporters as rubes and feeds them obvious lies.I don't get it how can anyone support him.
Biden is too old (but did well his first term) and I bet the racist see a black female taking over sometime in the next term and are choking on their biscuits and gravy at the thought.I wonder how much racism is influencing the trumpers? Clearly age limits must be established for all branches of government and term limits should be placed on the supremes.
Sadly this country is in deep political poo.
Then of course theirs other fish to fry that could bite all of us such as Putin's war, global warming and the rise of China, ho hum just another day on this pale blue dot.
I actually think what makes it difficult to convict Trump over Jan 6th is his narcissism doesn't allow himself to believe he lost the election. Call it pigheaded ignorance, but I think under no circumstance can he accept he lost cause that is the thing he hates most: being a loser. During the CNN townhall with Kaitlyn Collins he wouldn't even look at her when she asked him to acknowledge he lost. Or his MAGA hat saying "45-47." Or the 20th anniversary of 9-11 when he visited a firefighter station and said the election was rigged. There's a very recent video of him saying the coming election will be rigged by the Democrats. I found out months before the '20 election Trump was saying it was going to be stolen LOL. Sadly the courts would have to prove he was conscious that it wasn't rigged. Or some type of ignorance to listen. I dunno how that works in court.

But yeah the recent video of him saying the election will be rigged, Biden's the real criminal while his charges are fake does smell like he is conscious that is not true.
 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Spartan
Boy, all those brainwashed. I guess they never read their bible. Jesus would never do anything like what they are doing.
They're also violent "Christian" far-right extremists and a real threat. There's no daylight between them and Islamists (note: not Muslims). This, of course, is not something unique to Christianity or Islam.

What they do preach is that there should be no separation between the state and religion, along with persecution of "unbelievers". Misogyny is another central aspect for most of them, as well as bigotry.
 
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Mr._Clark

Audioholic Samurai
Sadly the courts would have to prove he was conscious that it wasn't rigged. Or some type of ignorance to listen. I dunno how that works in court.
I’ve seen commentary from various media sources to the effect that Trump cannot be convicted in connection with his efforts to overturn the election if he honestly believed he won the election.

As I see it, this is not 100% correct because it does not consider the specific acts that might be alleged to violate a specific law.

For example, many of the rioters who have been convicted in connection with January 6 apparently believed that the election was “stolen” but they were convicted anyway because their motive was not an element of the crime.

Trump’s lawyers could argue that he was simply acting to protect the election process because he’s required to do so as President, and he honestly believed the election was fraudulent (I saw a Trump lawyer on the news making an argument to this effect). Notice the slight of hand in this argument. Regardless of Trump’s beliefs about the election results, even as President he still cannot use illegal means to achieve the result he believes is correct.

For purposes of discussion, what if Trump had walked into the capital building on January 6 and started shooting and killing Democrats. Would he have immunity to murder charges if he honestly believed he had won the election?

Based on the (unverified) bits and pieces reported in the media, my impression is the prosecutor is pursuing charges based on fairly specific acts that do not require knowledge that the election was not stolen. My best guess (admittedly speculative) is that at least some of the charges involve Trump’s efforts to change the vote count in Georgia.Even if Trump believed that the count in Georgia had been wrong due to fraud, he would not be able to fraudulently change the vote count to offset the prior counts he believed were fraudulent.

Having said that, there’s no doubt that the prosecutor will have a stronger case if he can present strong evidence that Trump either knew or should have known that the election was not “stolen.”
 
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Dude#1279435

Audioholic Spartan
I’ve seen commentary from various media sources to the effect that Trump cannot be convicted in connection with his efforts to overturn the election if he honestly believed he won the election.

As I see it, this is not 100% correct because it does not consider the specific acts that might be alleged to violate a specific law.

For example, many of the rioters who have been convicted in connection with January 6 apparently believed that the election was “stolen” but they were convicted anyway because their motive was not an element of the crime.

Trump’s lawyers could argue that he was simply acting to protect the election process because he’s required to do so as President, and he honestly believed the election was fraudulent (I saw a Trump lawyer on the news making an argument to this effect). Notice the slight of hand in this argument. Regardless of Trump’s beliefs about the election results, even as President he still cannot use illegal means to achieve the result he believes is correct.

For purposes of discussion, what if Trump had walked into the capital building on January 6 and started shooting and killing Democrats. Would he have immunity to murder charges if he honestly believed he had won the election?

Based on the (unverified) bits and pieces reported in the media, my impression is the prosecutor is pursuing charges based on fairly specific acts that do not require knowledge that the election was not stolen. My best guess (admittedly speculative) is that at least some of the charges involve Trump’s efforts to change the vote count in Georgia.Even if Trump believed that the count in Georgia had been wrong due to fraud, he would not be able to fraudulently change the vote count to offset the prior counts he believed were fraudulent.

Having said that, there’s no doubt that the prosecutor will have a stronger case if he can present strong evidence that Trump either knew or should have known that the election was not “stolen.”
If I heard correct the Georgia case is not pardonable.
 
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Mr._Clark

Audioholic Samurai
If I heard correct the Georgia case is not pardonable.
I should have clarified that I was referring to potential federal charges. The media commentary I’ve seen suggesting that Trump cannot be convicted if he believed he won the election was in reference to potential federal crimes.

In theory Trump could be convicted for violating both federal and state laws for his activities in connection with the vote count in Georgia.

If he’s convicted under federal law a president could pardon him.

If he’s convicted under Georgia law the president couldn’t pardon him, but the state government could pardon him. My impression is that pardons are difficult to obtain under Georgia law, but I don’t practice there and my impression may not be correct.

Some of the Trump defense arguments that have been floated in the media relate to the authority of the president to enforce federal law. To my mind these arguments are weak in the context of federal law, and they are even weaker in the context of state laws.
 
isolar8001

isolar8001

Audioholic Chief
"Trump cannot be convicted if he believed he won the election"

What if Melania was overheard saying "I would rather die than spend another day with Fat Donny"
And the next day, she was found dead.
Would Fat Donny be off the hook since he believed she prefered death to her ongoing marriage ?
 
D

Dude#1279435

Audioholic Spartan

WASHINGTON — A Republican-led House committee on Friday began posting internal video from the Jan. 6 riot to a public website, with House Speaker Mike Johnson vowing to make the footage "available to all Americans."

“Today, we will begin immediately posting video on a public website and move as quickly as possible to add to the website nearly all of the footage, more than 40,000 hours," Johnson, R-La., said in a statement.


“This decision will provide millions of Americans, criminal defendants, public interest organizations, and the media an ability to see for themselves what happened that day, rather than having to rely upon the interpretation of a small group of government officials," he said, adding that requests for access to specific videos can also be made through the House Administration Committee.

The panel began by posting 90 hours of security video that had already been released to media outlets.

Rep. Joe Morelle, the top Democrat on the House Administration Committee, blasted Friday's release of the footage.

“It is unconscionable that one of Speaker Johnson’s first official acts as steward of the institution is to endanger his colleagues, staff, visitors, and our country by allowing virtually unfettered access to sensitive Capitol security footage," Morelle said in a statement. "That he is doing so over the strenuous objections of the security professionals within the Capitol Police is outrageous."

Capitol Police declined to comment.
 
D

Dude#1279435

Audioholic Spartan
I think this is a good example of the complexity of Trump. On the one hand he wanted to grab the steering wheel and have security take him to the capitol during the riot. On the other hand the 187 minutes after that is a grey area. (Did Ivanka beg her father to do something about it?) I see a person telling Pence to overturn the results, that the rioters should've hanged him etc. I think it's a line he really believed in because losing -- or being thought of as a loser -- isn't something his narcissism can tolerate. Trump will state how he's tired of all this death regarding the Ukraine/Russia war. The flip side he's instigating hate and violence but sits in the middle to avoid prosecution. Sadly I predict he wins the '24 election.
 
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