The Dolby Atmos, DTS-X, and Auro-3D Discussion Thread

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DTS:X itself isn't really an "object" system

Dts:X is an object based format in pretty much the same way Atmos is. The problem, and one I think causes AcuDef and others the most concern with, is that all current Dts:X discs for the Home do not use objects. What they do is map/snap between what is coded for on the disc and the actual physical channels present. This is a situation they could easily change at any point and would be far more representative of what the format is capable of. The Dts:X Demos, few and far between, show more of what is possible with the format.

Atmos discs, by contrast, for the Home usually do have objects coded into the audio stream as meta data and is perhaps the reason why streaming services like Netflix, Apple, etc use DD+ Atmos format since it gives them the space/bitrate savings, whilst at the same time provide a means to get the Atmos rating.

I don't believe DTS:X Pro is the "cinema" version

No I don't believe Dts:X Pro is the Cinema based version of Dts:X either, it is just a more flexible version of the Home Dts:X which can allow Installers, enthusiasts and Manufacturers greater scope. The "Pro" is a nice marketing touch, but consider it more Dts:X revision 2. The real change required is by content providers in making better use of the formats. Neither format has so far shown it's true potential, but then getting people into Cinemas was the real original goal. You must remember we here on these forums are just a very small select group. The vast majority of content is consumed on phones/tablets, Tvs and sound bars.

 

[VonMagnum]

From what I've been told (by a fairly reliable source that works in the film mixing industry is that home DTS:X only has a maximum of 16 objects, which are really more like "channels" that can be assigned a location out of 34 possible supported speaker locations (two of which are LFE channels). Neural X then figures out where to create "in-between" channels to simulate more between or around as best it can (unlike commercial DTS which I believe uses real objects as does Auromax). I'm not certain if that includes the normal 7.1 bed channels or not, but then all the rest of the 34 would have be extracted. That's certainly doable (e.g. I create "top middle" by using Pro Logic processors to extract a "near discrete" center-channel output (it removes the center output from the front/rear as well so that's what I mean by "near discrete" as you typically can't hear the little bit of leak-through). In fact, it works so well I'm not sure more 'objects' would make a noticeable difference in a home environment with a 32-34 channel maximum limit. Two different ways to achieve the same thing, really except that "channels" don't have a max limit on how many individual sounds you can pack into them at one time. Atmos actually has a maximum for the non-bed channels, but I think you can combine sounds to get more.

There's been a lot of claims early on by DTS that made it sound unbelievable that have never surfaced in reality including that horrible 11-channel maximum limit that's been present in the home version until now. But so far only Trinnov has announced support for it and I don't think it's available yet so we don't know for certain what it will do. Most over at AVS seem to think it will just allow Neural X to create all the remaining channels out of 34 maximum (two of which are LFE channels). Atmos, meanwhile can do 32 + LFE maximum speakers, I believe, at home and Trinnov has found a way to expand that (probably using something similar to Neural X) to 64 (same as the commercial version, although Atmos at home has a maximum number of objects as well that are then "co-located" with other nearby objects. I know Atmos has a way to convert the cinema master tracks to a home version that can then be tweaked, saving time. I'm not sure about DTS tools, although I think I read it can make one cinema master that can then be easily converted to Auro and Atmos as well. They all have similar speaker counts at the theater level (using Auromax instead for Auro at least, although it has "true" bed channels at the theater closer to ear level than Dolby, which actually uses "side heights" for "side surround" in cinemas, contradicting the home version quite substantially IMO. I'd think Auromax would be superior at the theater if mixed for it, but I've heard most Auro-3D theater tracks are just "print downs" of Atmos tracks so they sound similar anyway.

 

[Bookmark]

This looks nice.

 

[snakeeyes]

I’m happy there is a bit of competition so Dolby stays on their toes.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I’m happy there is a bit of competition so Dolby stays on their toes.

Gotta have enough BluRays with DTSX first before we can use the term "Competition".

It seems like almost every single new BD release has Atmos.

I can't recall when the last DTSX BD was released.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The Dts:X Demos, few and far between, show more of what is possible with the format.

I just downloaded the 2 DTSX demos - Out of the Box and Emulator.

Looking forward to listening to them later today.

 

[Bookmark]

Yes it's hard;y much of a choice is it? Not seen the Emulator before I haven't checked the site in a while. Just picked up the Emulator, it sounds good.

Dolby still has a lot more with Amaze, Leaf, Silent and Shattered as probably the best examples.

Link again for anyone that missed it previously.
https://thedigitaltheater.com/dts-trailers/

 

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I can't recall when the last DTSX BD was released.

I do unfortunately, it was The First Purge . Hardly a standout for anyone.
https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-First-Purge-Blu-ray/210182/

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yes it's hard;y much of a choice is it? Not seen the Emulator before I haven't checked the site in a while. Just picked up the Emulator, it sounds good.

Dolby still has a lot more with Amaze, Leaf, Silent and Shattered as probably the best examples.

Link again for anyone that missed it previously.
https://thedigitaltheater.com/dts-trailers/

So not only does Dolby have significantly more Atmos BD, Dolby also have a lot more and better trailers/demos for free to download.

What kind of message is DTS sending?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I do unfortunately, it was The First Purge . Hardly a standout for anyone.
https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-First-Purge-Blu-ray/210182/

Thank you. Exactly our point. That's like one DTSX movie every 4 months?

And then after we finally get a DTSX movie, it's usually underwhelming.

 

[Bookmark]

Should be due one real soon then.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Should be due one real soon then.

You know what it says when you go to the DTS-X website and look under "Upcoming"?

None at this moment

Announced but no release date yet: None at this moment

Sounds about right.

 

[Bookmark]

The Dolby site is no more instructive, the last/latest entry is for the Justice League. It is hard to plan ahead when sites like https://www.blu-ray.com/ just don't know most of the time what format something will be out on.

I suppose the only sure ones would be the 4K UHD, but even that is not a great guide. I was looking at getting Saving Private Ryan, Apollo 13 or Terminator 2. Apparently none of these have Atmos or Dts:X and the Terminator 2 only has the Special Edition or Directors Cuts on the included Bluray, not the UHD which only has the Theatrical.

 

[VonMagnum]

The Dolby site is no more instructive, the last/latest entry is for the Justice League. It is hard to plan ahead when sites like https://www.blu-ray.com/ just don't know most of the time what format something will be out on.

I suppose the only sure ones would be the 4K UHD, but even that is not a great guide. I was looking at getting Saving Private Ryan, Apollo 13 or Terminator 2. Apparently none of these have Atmos or Dts:X and the Terminator 2 only has the Special Edition or Directors Cuts on the included Bluray, not the UHD which only has the Theatrical.

Saving Private Ryan is Atmos on 4K. Apollo 13 is DTS:X on 4K (at least US versions). I have them both.

blu-ray.com looks like it says so for both on there to me:

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Apollo-13-4K-Blu-ray/188953/
https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Saving-Private-Ryan-4K-Blu-ray/204600/

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Saving Private Ryan is Atmos on 4K. Apollo 13 is DTS:X on 4K (at least US versions). I have them both.

What is your impression of those 2 movies (Atmos/ DTSX)?

I didn’t watch the entire Private Ryan Atmos, but from what I saw, I wasn’t too impressed with the Atmos vs the original DTS upmixed with NeuralX.

 

[VonMagnum]

What is your impression of those 2 movies (Atmos/ DTSX)?

I didn’t watch the entire Private Ryan Atmos, but from what I saw, I wasn’t too impressed with the Atmos vs the original DTS upmixed with NeuralX.

I started to watch Private Ryan, but the person watching it with me objected to the extreme gory opening so I shut it off. I haven't gotten back to it, but my impression wasn't great during the opening in the sense that it seemed like the surround effects were either only directly overhead and not quite so much to the sides either (seemed all front to back and right overhead). I was kind of disappointed since I read somewhere it was one of the best Atmos tracks out there. I've since read things that confirm what I thought (apparently it is only ".2" for heights so that would mean directly overhead only).

I haven't watched Apollo 13 yet.... (not my favorite movie, but I was on a kick to find DTS:X titles for awhile there; I'm up to 25 with one more on the way).

 

[Bookmark]

What is your impression of those 2 movies (Atmos/ DTSX)?

Oh no, I binned the idea when I found out. It is based off the Amazon reviews, so could easily be wrong. I just checked the bluray site as well, for the UK and certainly the 4K Commemorative 20th Anniversary Edition is indeed in Atmos. So who knows perhaps Amazon commentators were wrong or it is only on a particular version. This could still be an option going forward. I do like Ryan that is an awesome bass monster unless this has that 30Hz filter which is apparently on the Master and Commander.

 

[Bookmark]

Right now we are testing out 9.1.4. I have it working and so far it is interesting. Once I have done way more settings and fiddling I will update properly. Totally unnecessary and most definitely OTT but why not.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I started to watch Private Ryan, but the person watching it with me objected to the extreme gory opening so I shut it off. I haven't gotten back to it, but my impression wasn't great during the opening in the sense that it seemed like the surround effects were either only directly overhead and not quite so much to the sides either (seemed all front to back and right overhead). I was kind of disappointed since I read somewhere it was one of the best Atmos tracks out there. I've since read things that confirm what I thought (apparently it is only ".2" for heights so that would mean directly overhead only).

I haven't watched Apollo 13 yet.... (not my favorite movie, but I was on a kick to find DTS:X titles for awhile there; I'm up to 25 with one more on the way).

Yeah I saw the gory opening beach battle scenes of Ryan in Atmos. And I was disappointed also.

I felt like the picture seemed kind old and so was the sound.

Nothing like the impressive opening scenes in Overlord in Atmos when the plane was being shot to pieces.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Right now we are testing out 9.1.4. I have it working and so far it is interesting. Once I have done way more settings and fiddling I will update properly. Totally unnecessary and most definitely OTT but why not.

Just need 10 more speakers to match Magnum and Catmos.