The Dolby Atmos, DTS-X, and Auro-3D Discussion Thread

B

Bookmark

Full Audioholic
Ratings
219
I ADTG, Andy and myself have found a fewer of the old movie get quite a nice improvement using the up mixers so you existing collection may still have a few miles yet.. :D
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic General
Ratings
526 1 1
If the Yamaha is in Straight mode and the disc bluray/UHD is an Atmos or Dts:X then Straight will use all the speakers configured. In Straight mode with only a normal Dolby or Dts it will only use 5.1 or 7.1 depending upon other factors. :) To make use of the Height/Overheads speakers for normal Dolby/Dts films you need to use the up mixers. If the up mixer is DSU then Atmos discs still work normally however Dts:X will be dropped to the core Dts HDMA and then up mixed. The opposite is also true. For Neural X then Dts:X will be passed untouched, Atmos will be dropped to the core True HD and then up mixed.

The new Yamaha's xx80s models, are restricted by Dolby from up mixing Dts, so Yamaha introduced a nice Auto mode to do the correct up mixing options. :)

Only thing I would add about the Haunting is a friend had an American import with Dts and he believed was most disappointed compared to the European Dolby version. I would add this was an original release back in 1999 I think. :confused:
I have A2060 from 2016.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Seriously, I have no life.
Ratings
6,626 15 6
Hmm the RSL 34E say to crossover at 80hz but I’m guessing I should tryout 90 or 100 etc to see. They each have dual 4.5’s and a tweeter.

I do still have my dvd of the haunting. I need to watch it again. :)

I wonder why DTSX MA even works with 5.1 ???
Wait, DTSX works with just 5.1? I thought it had to be at least 5.1.2?

Dual 4.5” drivers only has 31 sq.in. surface area.

A single 8” driver has 50 sq.in. surface area.

So a single 8” driver has more dynamics than dual 4.5” drivers.

I think in general we stick with whichever sounds best.

But I think most people would recommend at least 80Hz or higher for most ceiling speakers.

Most ceiling speakers have power rating of about 10-100 Watts, so I definitely would not want too much bass and power going to most ceiling speakers.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Seriously, I have no life.
Ratings
6,626 15 6
ADTG, Andy and myself have found a fewer of the old movie get quite a nice improvement using the up mixers so you existing collection may still have a few miles yet.. :D
Absolutely.

I am so amazed with what DSU and DTSNX can do for regular DD/TrueHD/DTS/DTS-HD sources - actually I am astonished at what DSU/DTSNX can do for even 2CH sources.

It’s like a little kid opening up Christmas presents. LOL. :D
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Seriously, I have no life.
Ratings
6,626 15 6
I just got my Denon 4400H and my 4 RSL C34E's installed for a 7.2.4 setup. Although my in ceilings aren't perfectly positioned they are very close. My surrounds are a little too high but that changes next year.
ATMOS configurations are supposed to be extremely flexible, so I wouldn’t worry about it at all.

Salient thing is to adjust the speakers’ level so that you get the best sound. IOW, you might prefer to boost the ceiling speakers’ level a bit if it helps you get better surround effects. For example, if the main speakers get very loud, you might not be able to hear the ceiling speakers at all.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Samurai
Ratings
1,396 5 1
Hmm the RSL 34E say to crossover at 80hz but I’m guessing I should tryout 90 or 100 etc to see. They each have dual 4.5’s and a tweeter.

I do still have my dvd of the haunting. I need to watch it again. :)

I wonder why DTSX MA even works with 5.1 ???
The literature in my box says 80hz also. I’m gonna start there, but I might try 100 just to experiment. I don’t believe I’ll be able to tell at all unless I’m overdriving them.
I would do 80 since they know their speakers better than we do... and experiment if you feel it’s necessary.
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic General
Ratings
526 1 1
Wait, DTSX works with just 5.1? I thought it had to be at least 5.1.2?

Dual 4.5” drivers only has 31 sq.in. surface area.

A single 8” driver has 50 sq.in. surface area.

So a single 8” driver has more dynamics than dual 4.5” drivers.

I think in general we stick with whichever sounds best.

But I think most people would recommend at least 80Hz or higher for most ceiling speakers.

Most ceiling speakers have power rating of about 10-100 Watts, so I definitely would not want too much bass and power going to most ceiling speakers.
Yes the DTSX works in 5.1 even. Atmos only if presence speakers enabled. Wonder how that makes sense but it is true on my Yamaha A2060. I’ll soon have 5.1.4 after I install those 4 RSLs this month.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Samurai
Ratings
1,396 5 1
Yes the DTSX works in 5.1 even. Atmos only if presence speakers enabled. Wonder how that makes sense but it is true on my Yamaha A2060. I’ll soon have 5.1.4 after I install those 4 RSLs this month.
I’m lost...or dumb! Don’t see what you mean.
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic General
Ratings
526 1 1
I’m lost...or dumb! Don’t see what you mean.
I put in my UHD copy of The Mummy part 3 Emperors Tomb and DTSX logo and decoder work in 5.1 speaker configuration. It’s a 7.1.4 mix and also worked in 5.1.4 and 5.1.2 when I tried those but I was surprised the DTSX decoder works even in 5.1. For Atmos to work you must enable the presence speakers. (Tested this with my UHD copy of Thor 3) This is on my Yamaha RXA2060 using my Sony x800.

Anyhow strange the DTSX decoder works without any speakers assigned for those ceiling speakers, whereas Atmos does not attempt to decode under that same situation.
 
Last edited:
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic General
Ratings
526 1 1
A little bit.

For 5.1.2, the front ceiling speakers are about 2 - 3 ft in front of you.

For 5.1.4, the front ceiling speakers are about 4 - 5 ft in front of you.




Are these speaker positions for 5.1.4 from Dolby or DTS? Do the 2 companies agree or differ on the position for 4 ceiling speakers? I’m at the point of choosing where to cut in my speakers.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Samurai
Ratings
1,396 5 1
Are these speaker positions for 5.1.4 from Dolby or DTS? Do the 2 companies agree or differ on the position for 4 ceiling speakers? I’m at the point of choosing where to cut in my speakers.
Those are Atmos. Iirc dtsx is closer to auto 3d which in my mind doesn’t make sense as far as how they’d phantom image.
I’d read this before actually cutting. It’s more in depth. https://www.dolby.com/us/en/technol...tmos-home-theater-installation-guidelines.pdf
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Samurai
Ratings
1,396 5 1
Are these speaker positions for 5.1.4 from Dolby or DTS? Do the 2 companies agree or differ on the position for 4 ceiling speakers? I’m at the point of choosing where to cut in my speakers.
the image you linked(which I’ve also used) is a little generic. The one above is too but illustrates how your LP will be in the center of the “X”. And basically if you want 45deg fore and aft, measure from ear height to the ceiling, and place your speakers that distance in front of, and behind the LP.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Samurai
Ratings
1,396 5 1
The .5 to .7 reference(covered in the Dolby link I shared) refers to the width of the room. So in a 16’ room they could be spaced from 8’ to 11.5’. This is fortunate because I think most people’s mains are spaced somewhere in that range.
 
Auditor55

Auditor55

Full Audioholic
Ratings
97 13 7
I just got my Denon 4400H and my 4 RSL C34E's installed for a 7.2.4 setup. Although my in ceilings aren't perfectly positioned they are very close. My surrounds are a little too high but that changes next year. I haven't had much time to enjoy it yet that changes tonight and tommorow. I don't have a lot of content yet this thread is helping me find it. What I can say is even with discs I currently have that aren't optimal. I'm glad I made the jump. It just feels more immersive with the sound. Could be subjective but I listened pretty heavy and critically to my 7.2 setup so I'm thinking my reactions so far are honest and not biased. Anyways I'm looking forward to getting more into it this weekend. Hope you've been enjoying yours!
How high is too high?
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Chief
Ratings
467 1
How high is too high?
My room has arches instead of walls it's all open so the surrounds are 7 feet high the ceiling speakers are 10 feet. The surrounds are angled to point down to the listening spot. When I spoke to Joe and Howard at RSL when I was buying the C34E's they said with the surrounds being angled it will work but it won't be optimal or sound as good as it could. My plan is next year when I upgrade to 3 SVS ultra towers in the front. I'll just keep my 3 SVS prime towers pick up 1 more and use those for my surrounds here's the room pic
20180827_190857.jpg
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Chief
Ratings
467 1
Too high is where his are.
There’s a couple pics somewhere. He’s only got about 2’ or something for separation from his surrounds to the ceiling.
I want to go with the new RSL CG 25's as surrounds bro on speaker stands but they'll cost a lot for 4 of them I just feel with the discount my sales guy @ Bjorn's will give me for buying 3 ultra towers and the cost of just one more Prime Tower I'll end up better financially with a pretty kick ass setup. Man I'm stoked for that new RSL line that's coming tho!
 
Auditor55

Auditor55

Full Audioholic
Ratings
97 13 7
My room has arches instead of walls it's all open so the surrounds are 7 feet high the ceiling speakers are 10 feet. The surrounds are angled to point down to the listening spot. When I spoke to Joe and Howard at RSL when I was buying the C34E's they said with the surrounds being angled it will work but it won't be optimal or sound as good as it could. My plan is next year when I upgrade to 3 SVS ultra towers in the front. I'll just keep my 3 SVS prime towers pick up 1 more and use those for my surrounds here's the room pic View attachment 26243
Well there's always going to be some kind of compromise because some living rooms weren't actually built with home theater in mind. Most rooms are not going to allow you to get this great surround speaker v ceiling speaker separation because small room theaters are not built like a commercial cinema. Also, I don't see the ceiling speakers in the picture, can you hear them when playing an Atmos encoded movie?
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Chief
Ratings
467 1
Well there's always going to be some kind of compromise because some living rooms weren't actually built with home theater in mind. Most rooms are not going to allow you to get this great surround speaker v ceiling speaker separation because small room theaters are not built like a commercial cinema. Also, I don't see the ceiling speakers in the picture, can you hear them when playing an Atmos encoded movie?
Yeah the camera stretches things really weird. The two rears are up above the surrounds slightly forward as wide as my fronts 41/2 feet behind me. The fronts are 5 feet in front and as wide as my fronts. I haven't had a chance to play wn atmos encoded movie yet just got off shifts at the hospital. So my weekend is fixing to start. What I did hear from just upmixing yeah I could hear them up there enough to be impressed. Also things just feel more all around me know. Immersive I think is what I'm trying to say. I'll look foward to this weekend where I can hear some true atmos encoded movies. I'll let you know how it sounds. Do you have any good suggestions for me to go buy?
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Seriously, I have no life.
Ratings
6,626 15 6
Are these speaker positions for 5.1.4 from Dolby or DTS? Do the 2 companies agree or differ on the position for 4 ceiling speakers? I’m at the point of choosing where to cut in my speakers.
First, the guidelines (ATMOS, DTSX, Auro3D) are just guidelines or suggestions.

As Shady mentioned before, the specific exact locations of the ceiling speakers are not the salient thing for these object-based Surround Sound.

We could very loosely say the ceiling speakers should be approximately 30-60 degrees vertically.

So put 2 speakers just in front of you and 2 speakers behind you with whatever space your room allows. These object-based formats should do the rest.

IMO, the salient thing with all 3 formats is to just get some speakers above you so that you can hear the overhead sound. Auro3D only specifies for a single speaker (Voice of God) above you.

These ATMOS/DTSX people talk about object-based and 3D sound field all they want. They talk the talk. The primary thing I’m hearing is sounds from the ceiling (voices, raindrops, thunder, birds, airplanes, helicopters, etc.) and some panning effects.

So the salient thing is to just get some speakers up there, not if the speakers are perfectly at a 45 degree angle. If they are 60-75 degrees in front and behind you, that’s fine too IMO.

A lot of people don’t have any spaces behind them. So just get 2 speakers above them would be good.
 

newsletter
  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis