The Crown XLS DriveCore Thread

[ahblaza]

Gain the Crown is /fixed/. The knobs are input attentuators. So, can put those at max if the preamp doesn't have enough voltage. The preamp will clip before the amplifier in all cases (since its output voltage is below the requirement to drive the crown to where it would clip).

I was assuming he was going to use it (Crown) with a direct input source, I realize the preamp's output is too low to even drive the amp, correct. I thought he was trying to isolate the problem component, I doubt it is the Crown, sorry if I was not making my point clear enough, I'm old and get confused easily
Cheers Jeff

 

[MidnightSensi2]

I was assuming he was going to use it (Crown) with a direct input source, I realize the preamp's output is too low to even drive the amp, correct. I thought he was trying to isolate the problem component, I doubt it is the Crown, sorry if I was not making my point clear enough, I'm old and get confused easily
Cheers Jeff

I'm easily confused as well. Who knows lol. Either way, I agree.

 

[sequential.gear]

1V is a problem since it will take 1.4v to drive the Crown to it's full potential. Now the issue may lay in the Art Clean Box. I own one and it does work.

I would go source to Clean Box to amp as a next step. Keeping the pre out of the loop for the time being.

What is your source?

My source is a Cambridge Audio 351c. I see where you´re getting at, but there are many receivers with a pre-out as low as 1v, and many people get good results pairing them with this amp. The worst part, is the huge thump the Art clean box sends to the woofers when I power it on, or when I power on the source. I´m talking about 4 inch Seas woofers that almost got knocked from the enclosure, it was that bad... The only way is to turn off amplifier, before powering the Art cleanbox. This is kind of unacceptable, it doesn´t say anything about it on the instructions.

Sound was way more enjoyable even without the benefits of a converter, even though it lacked any real strength, there was nice soundstage, bass was still better than my Nad´s and it was much more transparent. This converter sucked the life out of the music, there was no soundstage at all and it really sounds bad. I removed it already and I´m going to send it back. I´m not even getting it, why only one of the two knobs changes the level. I sent Art´s technical support an email about this...

 

[sequential.gear]

The first time I heard the amplifier with the preamp, without the converter, and with 83dbs sensitivity speakers, I was absolutely sold. I´m positively sure it isn´t the amplifiers fault, it is miles ahead from what I have to compare it with, even without the benefits of a converter. Maybe the cleanbox is defective? Is it normal for only one of the knobs to work?

Thanks for all the replies once again!

 

[jinjuku]

My source is a Cambridge Audio 351c.

The Art Clean Box Pro isn't ideal. What I would get is a Sample Rate Converter.

Guitar Center has a used and guaranteed Behringer SRC 2496 (a shout out to Billy P: Yes, more pro audio gear recommendations) used for $79:

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Behringer-Used-Behringer-SRC2496-Signal-Processor-110252811-i3810511.gc?source=4WWRWXGP&gclid=CPTIsdGVn78CFQcJaQodI2MADw&kwid=productads-plaid^18283950120-sku^110252811@ADL1U@ADL4GC-adType^PLA-device^c-adid^27490280802

You would go Optical out to the Behringer and then Balanced out to the Crown. If you can return the Clean Box Pro. You should only be out $25-40 depending on shipping. The SRC2496 will do the D/A and you can read the reviews for yourself on this unit. Some people found it better than their audiophile class gear for their tastes.

I've directly or had friends purchase used gear from GC will really great results.

 

[sequential.gear]

The Art Clean Box Pro isn't ideal. What I would get is a Sample Rate Converter.

Guitar Center has a used and guaranteed Behringer SRC 2496 (a shout out to Billy P: Yes, more pro audio gear recommendations) used for $79:

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Behringer-Used-Behringer-SRC2496-Signal-Processor-110252811-i3810511.gc?source=4WWRWXGP&gclid=CPTIsdGVn78CFQcJaQodI2MADw&kwid=productads-plaid^18283950120-sku^110252811@ADL1U@ADL4GC-adType^PLA-device^c-adid^27490280802

You would go Optical out to the Behringer and then Balanced out to the Crown. If you can return the Clean Box Pro. You should only be out $25-40 depending on shipping. The SRC2496 will do the D/A and you can read the reviews for yourself on this unit. Some people found it better than their audiophile class gear for their tastes.

I've directly or had friends purchase used gear from GC will really great results.

Keep the pro gear recommendations commin´, I have a Behringer DEQ2496, so you don´t have to be ashamed.
In reality, my system goes like this, the cammy going to the deq2496, then from there to a micromega mydac, and then to preamplifier.
I feel a bit of a dork, I bought the pro-ject preamp on purpose for the Crown amp... it was relatively cheap new, and with a remote, which is a feature I would not like to loose...

Nonetheless, I appreciate all your help! Won´t the Rolls mb15b converter be any better than the Art? What a pos piece of gear...

 

[jinjuku]

Keep the pro gear recommendations commin´, I have a Behringer DEQ2496, so you don´t have to be ashamed.
In reality, my system goes like this, the cammy going to the deq2496, then from there to a micromega mydac, and then to preamplifier.
I feel a bit of a dork, I bought the pro-ject preamp on purpose for the Crown amp... it was relatively cheap new, and with a remote, which is a feature I would not like to loose...

Nonetheless, I appreciate all your help! Won´t the Rolls mb15b converter be any better than the Art? What a pos piece of gear...

You don't need the Pre-amp if you only have one source. You don't need the MyDAC since the DEQ does D/A

Cambridge {TOSLink} <optical> DEQ2496 <xlr>{XLR} Crown. That's it.

The Cambridge has a remote.

Your signal chain is way too complex.
</xlr></optical>

 

[ahblaza]

You don't need the Pre-amp if you only have one source. You don't need the MyDAC since the DEQ does D/A

Cambridge {TOSLink} <optical> DEQ2496 <xlr>{XLR} Crown. That's it.

The Cambridge has a remote.

Your signal chain is way too complex.
</xlr></optical>

+++++++++++111111111

 

[FozzieT]

I had a bunch of issues with the XLS 1500 when I ran my Emotiva UMC 200 pre-amp to it. Lots of hum and noise. I switched over to a Peachtree audio NovaPre and all those issues disappeared.

I did not find any harshness or glare in the high frequencies. Maybe cause the NovaPre has a tube stage that "softens" the signal??

Having said all of that...I just got a Devialet 200 and the difference it makes to my system is astonishing. I had always been a believer of "watts is watts" until I demoed the Devialet. There was no way I was planning on spending that kind of money on an integrated amp but after having it in my system and then switching back to the NovaPre/Crown....it was as if I had tasted the forbidden fruit and there was no going back. I ponied up the dough and have zero regrets.

The Peachtree, Crown, and Emotiva are now on Audiogon.

 

[jinjuku]

They have a great looking product. But how does one easily get one for trial? Their availability isn't ubiquitous.

 

[FozzieT]

There is a local dealer here in Phoenix that loaned it to me. I had heard it before at RMAF and Newport, but at shows you never know if it's the amp, or the speakers, or the source, or the combination that makes the system sound good. Having a unit here to demo was very eye-opening (ear-opening?).

I've swapped out three different amps through my system over the past couple of years: Emotiva XPA-5, UPA-200, and the Crown 1500. I've switched between the Emotiva UMC 200 and Peachtree NovaPre for my pre-amp/DACs. The system always sounded good, but I always had to use a sub (or two) to get decent bass. And there was always a decent soundstage but it wasn't very deep.

The Devialet made my Monitor Audio bookshelf speakers it's b*tches. Just took control of them and made them sing. I have never heard this kind of bass, and it is clean and tight. Got rid of the subs. I know it sounds like cheesy audiophile talk but it is really like a veil had been lifted from my system.

Anyway, sorry to have hijacked things here. The Devialet is like 20x more than a Crown 1500. And the Crown did an excellent job - sounded every bit the equal of the Emotiva UPA-200 but only about 10 lbs. It was a little fussy with the pre-amps: a ton of hum with the Emotiva pre, but just fine with the Peachtree. I kept the gain controls turned all the way up and regulated the volume with the Peachtree's remote.

 

[Mrtvgame]

I Just posted in the Denon 5200 forum without realizing this forum existed, so I am going to ask hear as well since it involves the Crown.

Hi there,
In the review of the 5200, Audioholics state:
The AVR-X5200W has plenty of grunt via the preamp outputs to use in conjunction with virtually any separate amplifier should you desire more power. I measured unclipped output of 4.5Vrms from every channel. We like to see at least 2Vrms and the Denon met this with over 6db of margin to spare.
I wanted to add a crown xls 2000 to power my front left and right polk audio towers (500 wpc). I used the preouts from 5200 (RCA) and ran them to the crown. When I fired it all up there was no increase in volume or performance of the speakers. I had the crown gains at 12 and 2. Denon was up to 70-80% on volume.
Crown states it needs 1.4v input. I called Denon tech support and they said the pre amp outputs are 1.2v Does this match to what you found above? I contacted Crown again and they said no this does not match what Denon tech support said.
So can you shed some light on this? I don't want to have to go out and buy a Rolls Converter or CleanBox Pro or something else you guys would recommend.
Additional info. Speaker set up is 5.1.4, with the atmos speakers dedicated in ceiling speakers. I have yet to run Audyssey or tinker much with set up except to set fron speakers to large and sub to sub+main.
When I get home tonight, i am going to make sure that I actually hooked up the right pre-outs in case that's the issue. i.e. ran front heights instead of front left/right fro pre-amp outputs.
Cheers from a long time lurker and first time poster.

 

[slipperybidness]

I Just posted in the Denon 5200 forum without realizing this forum existed, so I am going to ask hear as well since it involves the Crown.

Hi there,
In the review of the 5200, Audioholics state:
The AVR-X5200W has plenty of grunt via the preamp outputs to use in conjunction with virtually any separate amplifier should you desire more power. I measured unclipped output of 4.5Vrms from every channel. We like to see at least 2Vrms and the Denon met this with over 6db of margin to spare.
I wanted to add a crown xls 2000 to power my front left and right polk audio towers (500 wpc). I used the preouts from 5200 (RCA) and ran them to the crown. When I fired it all up there was no increase in volume or performance of the speakers. I had the crown gains at 12 and 2. Denon was up to 70-80% on volume.
Crown states it needs 1.4v input. I called Denon tech support and they said the pre amp outputs are 1.2v Does this match to what you found above? I contacted Crown again and they said no this does not match what Denon tech support said.
So can you shed some light on this? I don't want to have to go out and buy a Rolls Converter or CleanBox Pro or something else you guys would recommend.
Additional info. Speaker set up is 5.1.4, with the atmos speakers dedicated in ceiling speakers. I have yet to run Audyssey or tinker much with set up except to set fron speakers to large and sub to sub+main.
When I get home tonight, i am going to make sure that I actually hooked up the right pre-outs in case that's the issue. i.e. ran front heights instead of front left/right fro pre-amp outputs.
Cheers from a long time lurker and first time poster.

Hmmm....

So, in a couple of sentences, what's the problem?

And, what problem were you trying to solve by adding the Crown to your system?

No increase in volume? Are you saying that you can't get the system up to ear-bleed-run-out-of-the-room levels at all? You should have no problem achieving that.

No increase in performance? I'm not surprised in the slightest unless your 5200 was running out of steam (unlikely).

 

[Mrtvgame]

The problem: I have gone from 140 watts per channel to 335 watts per channel with no increase of volume or bass from a set of power hungry speakers.

Adding Crown like anyone would add an external amp, more power to specific speakers.

Yes, I cannot get volume to ear bleeding room levels.

Audioholic review of 2500 says pre amp output is more than the 1.4v required by the Crown? And Denon tech support says it delivers only 1.2V. So who is wrong? And do I need another piece of equipment between the Denon and Crown in order to take full advantage of teh Crown?

 

[slipperybidness]

The problem: I have gone from 140 watts per channel to 335 watts per channel with no increase of volume or bass from a set of power hungry speakers.

Adding Crown like anyone would add an external amp, more power to specific speakers.

Yes, I cannot get volume to ear bleeding room levels.

Audioholic review of 2500 says pre amp output is more than the 1.4v required by the Crown? And Denon tech support says it delivers only 1.2V. So who is wrong? And do I need another piece of equipment between the Denon and Crown in order to take full advantage of teh Crown?

Well, now we are getting somewhere.

You only now, in this post, described the actual problem!

And, splitting the info between threads only makes it more difficult to get help!

Did you run a RC setup before the Crown was installed? Did you re-run the RC afterwards?

 

[Mrtvgame]

Well, now we are getting somewhere.

You only now, in this post, described the actual problem!

And, splitting the info between threads only makes it more difficult to get help!

Did you run a RC setup before the Crown was installed? Did you re-run the RC afterwards?

Hmm, orignal post stated problem and answered your question. To reiterate, no RC has been used at all to this point.

Denon said 1.2 v, review said otherwise. Crown needs 1.4v. Asking for confirmation and suggestions to move forward to utlize all components properly and to their potential.

Two threads as two pieces of equipment. Not clear which one may be having issue. experts using both may have more to say than only one.

Crown support daid this:
The review does not match what Denon told you. According to Denon, you need to use a Rolls but according to the review you do not. I’m not sure which to go with but when in doubt I’d go off of what the manufacturer said.
If you get a Rolls there is no exact point I can tell you to set it at. You’ll just want to set it to a point that allows the amplifier to reach full output. You can tell if the amp is reaching full output by looking at the lights on the front. If you can get the green -10 LED’s to come on hard green(and possible even briefly flash the red clip light) then you are at or near full output.

EDIT: I tried the above suggestion last night and I had to run Denon to 80-85 to get green -10 LED on and into clipping red. So thinking I will try running full Audyssey RC and go from there .

 

[1in1]

while reading this thread, an idea came to my head... why wouldn't just buy small peavey pv6 mixer and put everything to crown through it??? can get them realy cheap second hand, no need any receivers . why peavey you ask? found somebody reviewing rotel 981 in audioreview com, that's what he said " purchased this power amp along with the Rotel RC-971 pre amp. For the first month or two I played the amp through my Cerwin Vegas, but was not happy with the bass reproduction. With hard house music there was an obvious lack of depth and control. Treble was also harsh and somewhat vague. I then connected the amp to a Peavey unity 1002 professional sound mixer and after listening for 5 minutes, I drop kicked the RC-971 down the stairs. Sound quality was awesome, with unlimited bass and crystal clear treble. Anyone not impressed by the sound of this or any other power amp should consider the quality of their pre amp" being said that, crown should get double the advantage from peavey mixer. as its all pro gear and output/input voltage/impedance would match ideally as it is all standartised. small mixer like peave pv6 or yamaha mg102 and ect. stuff that is used in recording studios they have built in preamps. what do you think? fix me if I`m wrong? it will use some space, but I`m sure its not a problem when you are looking for good sound

 

[Schurkey]

I would never recommend bringing a high-voltage and high-current device without NRTL safety certification into a home.

Thanks for the giggle.

My grandfather the electrician taught the family that if you have to check for a "live wire", be sure to use the back of your hand, so your fingers don't clench the bare wire when your muscles involuntarily contract.

Modern society is chock-full of nannies who think everyone should wear a helmet to do...anything, and every device needs to wear a condom of some sort to protect the user.

 

[wshuff]

After reading this (and a few other) threads about the XLS 1500, I've put a bid in for one on eBay. Provided my Yamaha RX-A2040's pre-outs are sufficient to drive it, the biggest drawback to the Crown seems to be that it is, well . . . not pretty. But I can remedy that by printing out a picture of a Pass Labs faceplate and gluing it on a small board. Problem solved.

 

[wshuff]

1V is a problem since it will take 1.4v to drive the Crown to it's full potential. Now the issue may lay in the Art Clean Box. I own one and it does work.

I think I may run into this problem. Is the Art Clean Box able to solve that problem, or at least is that what it is supposed to do? I have a music store close that has the Clean Box in stock, so I could snag one if it is needed.