Ten Reasons Why High Definition DVD Formats Have Already Failed

[gilcanyon]

Film Print Transfers Aren't Good Enough for HD

We early adopters don't need HD DVDs. The film transfers are not that good.
All of the older film transfers are barely adequate for the big screens and the upconversion DVD players. Yes, the smaller details are better with HD and the color resolution is improved, but not enough to justify throwing out your collection and waiting forever to replace all the hard won titles in your library. The studios demonstrate their greedy incentive on the 480P built-in limit of HDCP and the format war. To cap it off--a very thin release schedule matches their disinterest.

Someone tell me what is the reason to reacquire my collected titles in either format when my current DVD collection often looks better than any source of HD.

Until more compelling reasons arise, the HD DVD player is not on my purchase schedule.

gil (in Seattle)

 

[Merblich]

Why should we be motivated?

Group, I think the original posting is off target. As a audiophile who has spent gobs of money on his audio/video setups, I acquire items because their is a overwhelming urge. As a owner of over 1200 CDs and 550 DVDs their is minimal need to upgrade to fulltime HDCD/DVD setups.

In my opinion:
Most soundtracks to movies are not at a high audio quality. With a HD type format, the original level is recorded at about 6db lower. That with a larger decibel range, do we need explosions that require 5000 watt amps for 120db volumes? Most current movies are recorded with a 5.1 format. I already have two subwoofers in my high end without HD audio. Current MC audio is at 7.1. Do people really even WANT 8 speakers in 1 room??????? How many people have 6? How many have 3 full range? I read a internal review saying if the front speakers are of XYZ quality, is their really a need for a center channel?

Even with 37" (LCD) and 80" (Runco / Stewart) views, the viewing of standard DVDs on existing players are as good without spending $20k for better projectors or whatever. I don't see alot of well done video transfers that would give me the urge to spend the money. Their wa one scene in a movie called Soylent Green at the end. But those types of scenes are rare even in a well-made movie. Would 2001 a Space Odysey look better if transfered to HD video??? I don't think so. What about all those classic movies? Should we colorize them while we convert them? To satisfy our audio demands, we have the DVD to a DAC to a Krell pre-amp for better DVD audio.
To satisfy our minimal HDCD viewing we have the 37" HD compat LCD with a Samsung HD TV tuner and a 45" HD antenna with high end audio for evening prime time HD TV watching for FREE. To give us the ability to watch some cable we switch our ISP for minimal service. No, we buy DVDs for our movies that we want to watch, vs paying for movies that we don't want to watch.
Lastly, if a analogue CD base is well bought for the budget and room, the spendatures (sp?) will apply to CD and beyond.

Thus, we are in a wait and see attitude with any major HD type purchases.

My big video/audio room: Infinity IRS Beta (custom), Krell FPB mono amps, Sony DVD, Theta DAC, Krell CD, Yamaha DSP, ML Logos center, ML Quest rears, Stewart screen/ Runco projector, etc..

Mitch

 

[Peeling]

#5. Playstation3 is going to be revolutionary. The standard blue ray player included is giving game developers a quantum leap in content design in games, where they don't have to worry about space restrictions on the media.#

Spoken like a true non-game-developer

I don't want to take this thread off-topic, but speaking *as* a game developer let me assure you the capacity of a platform's disc media is far, far, far down the list of our concerns.

Feel free to stop reading now, but in case you don't want to take my word for it, here's why:

In terms of quality of game experience, how much data you have access to in total is irrelevant; how much data you have *instantaneous* access to is of vital significance. Removable disc media can stream reasonable quantities of data, but the key word there is 'stream'. Sequentially. At a constant rate, from one file. So while it's perfectly possible to have a seamless 'world' bigger than the available RAM can hold, unless you experience it linearly and predictably (or perhaps at walking speed) you will have problems. Check out the motorcycle on GTA PS2

 

[Audioholics]

Excellent insight and points - welcome to the forums!

 

[pbmpharmacist]

I agree, they have crashed and burned

 

[Jutsuka]

10 reasons HDDVDs failed

Prophetic, I could not agree more; "niche" versus mass market. Consumers undoubtedly move towards "convenience". The same is true for the industry I have been in for the last twenty years; telecom.

 

[The Thing]

Someone tell me what is the reason to reacquire my collected titles in either format when my current DVD collection often looks better than any source of HD.

Until more compelling reasons arise, the HD DVD player is not on my purchase schedule.

gil (in Seattle)

Because there IS a noticeable difference, in most cases not just a marginal one (some titles excluded such as Full Metal Jacket on HD DVD which is still better than the SD version). Prime example is The Searchers. There is a WHOPPING difference in quality between the HD version and the SD version. So significant a difference is there that once you see it you'd break the SD version in pieces and send it to the bin. I can repeat this over and over. For example Unforgiven and Goodfellas. Both in HD-DVD format provide significant visual improvement over their SD versions. The problems seen with the mastering of the blu-ray disks aside, the HD-DVDs out there are beautiful both aurally and visually. There IS a significant difference in HD over SD, period. Of course your TV is important as well.

Remember as well you can keep your old collection and use the upconverting capabilities of the Toshiba player if you purchase it. Looking at the THX certified dvds from the Star Wars collection and Raiders of the Lost Ark collection with the Toshiba HD-A1 provides a noticeable upconverting (and beautiful) difference than using my Samsung upconverting player.

 

[Bigsilvs]

Eleven Reasons Why High Definition DVD Formats Have Already Failed

#11 Getting 3 TB of Data on a Standard CD article

 

[old&slow]

I agree mostly with what Clint said, however I dont believe it will fail. Technology will always move forward. Sometimes faster and sometimes slower. I think in this case it will be slower for 2 reasons. As already mentioned we are more educated and have more access to good info about upcoming products.
And secondly,also mentioned,it's not ground breaking tech.

I personally am not impressed with what you get from the money required. These large companies want me to put out about 10 times the money to watch movies? I dont think so!
For the cost of a new 50 to 60 inch plasma with a Blue ray machine and a new receiver for audio and throw in the added cost of discs and tv subscription I think I could purchase a nice kawasaki motorcycle. And thats a little better return on the dollar imo!

 

[BMXTRIX]

...I could purchase a nice kawasaki motorcycle. And thats a little better return on the dollar imo!

Nothing like relaxing with the wife, kids, and family dog on the old motorcycle in the middle of Winter. Obviously, both have certain advantages.

 

[JustEd]

Were you around then?

About point #8- I don't think most people who owned them would feel that they were burned by purchasing a 8 Track or a Laser Disk. Both formats were around for quite awhile. In the case of Laser Disk there simply was NOTHING to compare it with, it was that good for its time.

No format survives forever, not 78's, LP's, 45's, linear tape, VHS, the list goes on and one.

But I do agree with your view of hype driving the market and that many might feel cheated about High Def DVD. I honestly think this kind of marketing "pre release hype" is something newer than 8 Tracks or Laser Disks.

Ed

 

[old&slow]

Nothing like relaxing with the wife, kids, and family dog on the old motorcycle in the middle of Winter. Obviously, both have certain advantages.

You know nothing about me.
This is where your obvious attempt to discredit me loses it's value! I have no kids at home anymore to spend time with.
My wife doesn't care much for movies or tv and winter comes and goes. She does however enjoy motorcycling.
I was merely stating my opinion and and you've taken it off topic! congrats!!

 

[Audioholics]

You know nothing about me.
This is where your obvious attempt to discredit me loses it's value!

Not true! We now know you have no ability to understand humor or interact nicely with others.

 

[frankf]

Blu Ray?HD? What the?

I have been thinking about video scalers. I have read that they
present an HD quaClint , Good review on Blu-Ray & Hd. I agree on all of your points unlike some of the other readers, however I did notice that you are not convinced that these formats will fail.
Is that your opinion that these formats will fail?
I for one am not interested in spending $1000.00 for the Sony Blu Ray plus all of the extras. Not to mention the selling price of $30-$35.00 for the DVD's.
I have read in this forum as well as Home Theater Magazine about the quality of dvd transfers. Super-bit is awesome as well as there DTS audio.
Will I really see that much difference to pay such a price for Blu-Ray.
Another factor in the formula is that most consumers at this point (myself included) do not have a 1080p source. I have a Infocus 7205 projector that I am happy with. Good blacks, good contrasts and beautiful color! BUT how much of a difference will I see with a Blu-Ray at 1080p. 1080p going into a 1080i source, what does give birth to?

lity picture to all of your DVDS'. Not to say that they are transformed into HD but have the quality of said format.
What is your opinion therfore about scalers? Which one would you reccommend if you think that this is a good idea?
Or is the sales pitch about video scalers all hype. If it is hype how do these companies get away with false advertising.

Hope you respond.
Frank

 

[Sleestack]

I recently purchased a 65"1080P plasma, the Panasonic TH-65PF9UK and a Blu- Ray player, the Panasonic DMP-B10. IMO, the picture quality improvement is undeniable. While upscaled DVDs via my Denon 5910ci continue to look very good, they can't compare to the clarity produced by the best Blu Ray titles. If I was using a smaller panel or sitting further away, I might not feel the same way, but in my current setup, I definitely don't think HD formats have failed.

 

[frankf]

What's the BIG DEAL!!

Clint great review!!
I have deceided to purchase a video scaler DVDO VP50. I had been thinking about this before I heard of Blu-Ray or HD DVD.
The format war, the cost of a piece of equipment that has not been proven, HDMI cables that for myself would need a 35' run.....IT'S ALL TO MUCH!!
I have been to three Home Theater Stores....High End audio and video stores and none of them are really all that excited about the new formats.
One dealer told me that there store called all of there high end customers that have purchased equipment from them over the last 2-3 years to find out if people were intending to upgrade to Blu-Ray or HD and the end result was that people have very little interest in either format.
Now maybe that will change once the format proves itself and the overall cost comes down but for now it is a negatore'.
Another reason is that people like myself having a 720i display (Infocus 7205) will produce what?, with a blu-Ray!!
I was told by Sony the picture will still be better than what I currently have.
I don't believe that I will achieve that end with Blu-Ray.
I am not about to purchase a new projector.
The video scaler that I am thinking about buying will suit me just fine. At least I won't have to return it in 30 days.

F

 

[jcrobso]

I'm sitting this war out.

I was in the thick of it for the VHS/Beta Max wars and the Video disk wars(short lived as it was), but this time I'm not!
I still have all those Laser disks to watch!
Nice HT setup, I noticed you were able to put in the one thing that most of us don't have room for,,,, the Snack Bar!!! Nice going. John

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

I recently purchased a 65"1080P plasma, the Panasonic TH-65PF9UK and a Blu- Ray player, the Panasonic DMP-B10. IMO, the picture quality improvement is undeniable. While upscaled DVDs via my Denon 5910ci continue to look very good, they can't compare to the clarity produced by the best Blu Ray titles. If I was using a smaller panel or sitting further away, I might not feel the same way, but in my current setup, I definitely don't think HD formats have failed.

Hopefully Sony can keep up with demand, because a $599 Blu ray player with the added benefit of HD games can't be beat. If they're available in a few months, I may take the plunge. Sports in HD can't be beat. I'm guessing the new video gaming system will add weight to the Blu ray camp verus DVD HD.

 

[mike c]

after watching both the BR and HD-DVD market in north america, I have decided to wait it out too. the 20+- movies available in both formats simply isn't enough reason for me to jump in. (especially the fact my display is only 1080i)

maybe I'll jump in when the LOTR EE come out on HD/BR

 

[stratman]

If the formats don't succeed it's the market reacting, remember, we the people who use this site comprise, I would say less than 15% of the population( in understanding and passion for the hardware.) What sets us apart is obvious we love movies and music but more than that we love the gadgets, the average joe or jane couldn't be bothered. So if Clint proves to be prophetic in outlook, don't worry the big corporations will come out with a new shiny widget with the promise to outperform anything before it and 10 good reasons why we should give them our money for the holy widget. But of course you know there will be some small issue to resolve (did anyone hear the word format?) Perhaps, purpleray or deathray, we'll see!