Tempest Build

[MrBoat]

I've used those binding posts before and like them. I drill two ¼" holes (¾" apart) through the back of the cabinet and drive them in with a mallet and wood block. I add a bit of silicon caulk to the threads before I pound them in but they probably seal the holes without it.

These binding posts ended up being metric. I'd say 6mm threads with 10mm nuts. Instead of driving them in, I instead went one letter drill size past 1/4", put some stainless steel flat washers on the shafts and used the nuts to pull them into the holes. I put some 5 min epoxy in the holes first and this will no doubt harden the MDF in that area so that the splines of the binding posts will have a more legitimate bite. If I ever need to get the posts out, heat from a soldering iron would heat the posts up enough to break free from the epoxy.

 

[MrBoat]

I have decided to add a photo of how the epoxy/filler blending looks with regard to the veneer. Again, the goal was to make the faces appear as a well fitted baffle, instead of a seamless box with merely a masked paint line. This is the best of both worlds IMO, both functionally, and aesthetically.

 

[panteragstk]

I have to say that I'm glad you are here to show us new ways of doing things. I'd never have though of using epoxy that way. I like the way the front baffles came out. I'm going to need your advice when I build my set in a few weeks (wife approval pending). I'll start my own thread so as not to derail this, but I hope I speak for us all in saying that the DIY group here is glad to have you.

 

[MrBoat]

I have to say that I'm glad you are here to show us new ways of doing things. I'd never have though of using epoxy that way. I like the way the front baffles came out. I'm going to need your advice when I build my set in a few weeks (wife approval pending). I'll start my own thread so as not to derail this, but I hope I speak for us all in saying that the DIY group here is glad to have you.

Thank you, panteragstk. The epoxy bit is mostly because I have used it a lot. It's one of those things that can solve a lot of engineering or durability issues, while becoming relatively inert once cured and in a lot of different environments, except for UV exposure. In that case, it would need to be coated with something that is UV stable. Mostly I don't condone it's use too much because some people can develop sensitivities to it if they get it on their skin.

Epoxy, like roofing cement though, is one of those things that if you merely call to order it, you'll somehow manage to get it on your ear. Nitrile gloves and other protection is a must, at least with the laminating resins I use.

The other thing that happens with epoxy is something known as "amine blush." After it cures, the amine from the hardener can end up on the surface as a waxy residue, interfering with paints and other coatings. It does wash off with soap/water though, and a once over with denatured alcohol on clean paper towels seems to get it out of the way.

Thank you for the welcome. I have enjoyed my time here on this forum. Even though I don't know much about audio in which to be much help, otherwise.

 

[ski2xblack]

You're a great help alright. For example, you're helping me feel embarrassed over my ghetto Dura-tex finish.

 

[slipperybidness]

You're a great help alright. For example, you're helping me feel embarrassed over my ghetto Dura-tex finish.

Haha, right!

OTOH, that is a pretty good, rugged finish, that is easy to do.

 

[MrBoat]

You're a great help alright. For example, you're helping me feel embarrassed over my ghetto Dura-tex finish.

I actually like the duratex finish, but, I started recalling things I have used wrinkle, or other textures on with regard to dust being hard to get off of such surfaces. As it is, I did manage a, for lack of a better term, micro-orange peel on the painted portion. I was trying for a bit more but it shrunk back a bit but it looks nice.

Actually, it's all the glitz and glimmer y'all post with your speakers that made me step it up a little. I initially had planned to use solid wood rounded corners and veneer into those, and I was pretty sure I ordered the baffles 'without' the round-overs for that reason but they arrived already done that way so. . . . plan B.

I could have gotten fiddle-back, or burl, but my other belongings would look poorer yet so I held back. Some days, one (I) just has to reside to the fact that they are just not that fancy. I'm a welder, I dress like a welder and I have a welder house with welder's furnishings. I won't even get started with what I drive. lol

 

[slipperybidness]

I actually like the duratex finish, but, I started recalling things I have used wrinkle, or other textures on with regard to dust being hard to get off of such surfaces. As it is, I did manage a, for lack of a better term, micro-orange peel on the painted portion. I was trying for a bit more but it shrunk back a bit but it looks nice.

Actually, it's all the glitz and glimmer y'all post with your speakers that made me step it up a little. I initially had planned to use solid wood rounded corners and veneer into those, and I was pretty sure I ordered the baffles 'without' the round-overs for that reason but they arrived already done that way so. . . . plan B.

I could have gotten fiddle-back, or burl, but my other belongings would look poorer yet so I held back. Some days, one (I) just has to reside to the fact that they are just not that fancy. I'm a welder, I dress like a welder and I have a welder house with welder's furnishings. I won't even get started with what I drive. lol

Yeah, really good point on the dusting on the Duratex finish! The rougher the finish, the tougher to dust it. I usually just hit it with compressed air, if you try to use a swiffer duster, then the duster tends to want to catch on that surface.

 

[MrBoat]

Just ordered the Dayton 12" ultimax. Just one for now. Will try to make it look like a believable part of the Tempest theme. I have an inuke 3000 amp to power it with. Then I need to build a TV/component stand to replace the ghetto affair that is currently holding up my television with not much more than a hope and a prayer. That whole area where the tv is not being used for anything and I always have to hassle with the wires to sweep/mop back there. If I could instead convert it to a raised and enclosed area that I just had to dust the top of instead, I'd be happy.

 

[slipperybidness]

Just ordered the Dayton 12" ultimax. Just one for now. Will try to make it look like a believable part of the Tempest theme. I have an inuke 3000 amp to power it with. Then I need to build a TV/component stand to replace the ghetto affair that is currently holding up my television with not much more than a hope and a prayer. That whole area where the tv is not being used for anything and I always have to hassle with the wires to sweep/mop back there. If I could instead convert it to a raised and enclosed area that I just had to dust the top of instead, I'd be happy.

Why "only" the 12"? Why not the 15" or the 18"?

 

[MrBoat]

Why "only" the 12"? Whay not the 15" or the 18"?

Because I will likely eventually have dual subs. Space is at a premium and it's for music only. My last speakers had 12" woofers that were rated at 35hz and it was more than enough bass for this room as I was often EQ'ng it for less.

The Tempests sit on a fine line with regard to enough bass for music. To describe it I would classify them as 'just' enough, stand alone. After listening to them a lot these last few days, I am ultimately curious as to how they sound in a 2.1 or 2.2 setup with the lowest frequencies shared elsewhere, and to use more of the AVR's capabilities. Or, to even perhaps learn more about AVR's with regard to music in general or to perhaps have more bass tuning options that I am not aware of with my current, antique ways.

I think IIRC, in sealed (smaller being better with space concerns) cabinets, the ultimax is capable down to 34-36 hz. In the event that I have to go ported, being as I don't know what I am doing, the cabinets wouldn't be ridiculously large. In the event that one 12" tells me that two won't be enough either? I will build a system around it for my car. lol

Tell me if I am wrong, which is half of why I mentioned this here. I have no interest in movies or surround sound. I am just under 2000 cu ft here. Enough bass has never really been an issue, even using 2.1 desktop setups. But, it's the desktop (Harman Kardon soundsticks 2) that ultimately have me curious about 2.1 system. Noticing how much the sub enhances that arrangement. Well that and you guys insistent on subwoofers being a necessary component, even with full range speakers.

 

[slipperybidness]

Because I will likely eventually have dual subs. Space is at a premium and it's for music only. My last speakers had 12" woofers that were rated at 35hz and it was more than enough bass for this room as I was often EQ'ng it for less.

The Tempests sit on a fine line with regard to enough bass for music. To describe it I would classify them as 'just' enough, stand alone. After listening to them a lot these last few days, I am ultimately curious as to how they sound in a 2.1 or 2.2 setup with the lowest frequencies shared elsewhere, and to use more of the AVR's capabilities. Or, to even perhaps learn more about AVR's with regard to music in general or to perhaps have more bass tuning options that I am not aware of with my current, antique ways.

I think IIRC, in sealed (smaller being better with space concerns) cabinets, the ultimax is capable down to 34-36 hz. In the event that I have to go ported, being as I don't know what I am doing, the cabinets wouldn't be ridiculously large. In the event that one 12" tells me that two won't be enough either? I will build a system around it for my car. lol

Tell me if I am wrong, which is half of why I mentioned this here. I have no interest in movies or surround sound. I am just under 2000 cu ft here. Enough bass has never really been an issue, even using 2.1 desktop setups. But, it's the desktop (Harman Kardon soundsticks 2) that ultimately have me curious about 2.1 system. Noticing how much the sub enhances that arrangement. Well that and you guys insistent on subwoofers being a necessary component, even with full range speakers.

There's just nothing like powerful subs! I do like EDM and HipHop, so I need the heavy lifting. Even more than that, I like it for my gaming. For reference, I run the Ge T2 towers, these have built in "subs" and amps. Each tower has a pair of (IIRC) 5x9 drivers and a dedicated amp for just those drivers. These are great for just about all music, but I still have a beast of a Rythmik F15HP going too, while running the T2 full range.

But, aren't the Tempest already at 12" woofers? That's why I would think you would want to go bigger on the subs.

Granted, I'm not the expert in that area of the hobby, someone more knowledgeable can enlighten us on the topic.

 

[MrBoat]

There's just nothing like powerful subs! I do like EDM and HipHop, so I need the heavy lifting. Even more than that, I like it for my gaming. For reference, I run the Ge T2 towers, these have built in "subs" and amps. Each tower has a pair of (IIRC) 5x9 drivers and a dedicated amp for just those drivers. These are great for just about all music, but I still have a beast of a Rythmik F15HP going too, while running the T2 full range.

But, aren't the Tempest already at 12" woofers? That's why I would think you would want to go bigger on the subs.

Granted, I'm not the expert in that area of the hobby, someone more knowledgeable can enlighten us on the topic.

Yes, the Tempests already have 12" woofers but they are more tuned for midrange/midbass, where they actually do very well. I can't even imagine adding the lower frequencies that my JBL speakers have, yet not having it all crammed into the same cabinets in one spot. Seems that just being able to move the subs more optimally would prove to be an enhancement.

Also, I have a Behringer 3000dsp amp to hook the sub/s up to. This should also add some tune-ability to this affair, yes?

 

[ski2xblack]

That's a decent sub and excellent value, but very, very modest relative to the capability of your mains. Given your situation, and assuming sensible listening habits, it may not be much practical concern, but the headroom mis-match is significant. Those subs would be clanging their voice coils at levels where the Tempests are just getting warmed up (not that you should punish your ears with high spls).

 

[lovinthehd]

The box size difference between a 12 and 15/18 sealed box isn't as great as you might think. The 12" Ultimax has capabilities well below its f3 of 36hz, you just need to use an equalizer and have sufficient power for the boost, just like the sealed subs from manufacturers do. Your iNuke is the plain jane model or the dsp model? The dsp model will do the job. I don't know about you but once you get good subs there's just no going back, especially to speakers that aren't actually full range (like most but the Tempests were designed with subs in mind).

 

[MrBoat]

That's a decent sub and excellent value, but very, very modest relative to the capability of your mains. Given your situation, and assuming sensible listening habits, it may not be much practical concern, but the headroom mis-match is significant. Those subs would be clanging their voice coils at levels where the Tempests are just getting warmed up (not that you should punish your ears with high spls).

I realize that the 12's are minimal, comparatively. But these Tempests aren't lacking much, if anything in my home. The most I have used with the Denon/Tempests is about 32% and it's pretty potent at that level. More often than that, I am around the 22-24% range and it fills my area with truly wonderful sound. If the ultimax manages to emulate what the 12" woofers of the JBL's put out with regard to lows, that would be more than enough. If I am understanding the #'s right, at least at face value, and at the levels I listen at, they should be close. At any rate, the price is low enough to take a chance, and maybe even end up at some sweet spot with the sound, specifically for this room layout.

Also, I didn't choose the Tempests for the sheer power capabilities of them as much as I did their overall presence, foundationally speaking. The mid bass (and the high range too) of these things is nothing short of frign' awesome! My neighbor thought I took up piano, that's how real it sounds, even though the exterior walls.

 

[MrBoat]

The box size difference between a 12 and 15/18 sealed box isn't as great as you might think. The 12" Ultimax has capabilities well below its f3 of 36hz, you just need to use an equalizer and have sufficient power for the boost, just like the sealed subs from manufacturers do. Your iNuke is the plain jane model or the dsp model? The dsp model will do the job. I don't know about you but once you get good subs there's just no going back, especially to speakers that aren't actually full range (like most but the Tempests were designed with subs in mind).

Yes, the inuke is the dsp model. It also should be noted that I do not approach my hobbies via the limitations of a budget. I truly don't have the logical capacity to look at things I enjoy as an investment, or returns to that notion. It gets to the point where I just have to try it to figure it out. More often than not, the general rules end up not applying to certain unique circumstances I find myself in.

 

[MrBoat]

I should also mention that I am listening to what you folks say. I almost did buy the 15" ultimax but I was/am a little bass shy after the JBL's. Sitting here listening to the Tempests now and I can almost feel what the 12" sub will add. I'm hoping more than anything it isn't too much instead.

 

[lovinthehd]

I should also mention that I am listening to what you folks say. I almost did buy the 15" ultimax but I was/am a little bass shy after the JBL's. Sitting here listening to the Tempests now and I can almost feel what the 12" sub will add. I'm hoping more than anything it isn't too much instead.

You'll probably be fine with the dual 12s but likely just a bit better with larger drivers. Your speakers also have the usual placement limitations below Schroeder point.

 

[lovinthehd]

I should also mention that I am listening to what you folks say. I almost did buy the 15" ultimax but I was/am a little bass shy after the JBL's. Sitting here listening to the Tempests now and I can almost feel what the 12" sub will add. I'm hoping more than anything it isn't too much instead.

I'd think of the additional benefits of subs that can go lower not in the sense of output only. Your JBLs just didn't have the bass subs are capable of either. One way to find out