TC 2000 sealed with 2400 watts?

jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
LFE output setup- What is this? Can't I just run this from my sound card on the subwoofer out 1/8" jack
Correct. All Warp is saying is you can run a cable straight to the sub from your sound card.

Again your sound card may actually have some EQ built into it...
 
M

monsterman

Audioholic
When you have a good LFE output setup - I would suggest just run the sub and see how it sounds in your room, even without EQ I think it will be impressive for you at first, then you can worry about learning how to work on EQ'ing later....
I think you might be right. I just want to make sure everything is compatible.
 
M

monsterman

Audioholic
Correct. All Warp is saying is you can run a cable straight to the sub from your sound card.

Again your sound card may actually have some EQ built into it...
My built in sound card software does have a bunch of mixing and speaker placement options built in. I have only ever hooked up one output to a Logitech Z-2300 2.1 setup.
On the back of my PC it has a 1/8" for Sub output. So when I hook that up I will have the option of having some sort of control over the system.
 
Warpdrv

Warpdrv

Audioholic Ninja
Hopefully your sound card will have enough gain output for the EP2500

your going to need an adapter for that 1/8" sub out on your computer to the input Jack on the EP2500`, what size is that 1/4" jack..

I only use XLR.. Maybe someone can link to the settings you need for all the switches on the back of the EP2500 for a Mono Bridged setting, the label is incorrect on the back.
 
M

monsterman

Audioholic
Hopefully your sound card will have enough gain output for the EP2500
If not I could just get another sound card. Those top quality ones that I linked are said to be pretty powerful.
I wish I could find someone who has done the same thing I am trying to do.

The back of that EP 2500 seems complicated. I could just get in touch with the guy I'm getting my sub from and see about his settings, he is running a EP 2500 as well. Do I have to address anything in terms of power supply?
 
Last edited:
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
If not I could just get another sound card. Those top quality ones that I linked are said to be pretty powerful.
I wish I could find someone who has done the same thing I am trying to do.

The back of that EP 2500 seems complicated. I could just get in touch with the guy I'm getting my sub from and see about his settings, he is running a EP 2500 as well.
Let me dig my ep2500 out of the rack. I can get you the settings. You will need 3.5mm to 1/4" adapter
 
M

monsterman

Audioholic
Let me dig my ep2500 out of the rack. I can get you the settings. You will need 3.5mm to 1/4" adapter
I am placing an order on Amazon now. Are there any other adapters I will be interested in getting. I got:
3.5 mm to 1/4" adapter
6ft 3.5mm cable x 2


Oh, The TC 2000 Has the SS RL-P motor! Sweet, That sub can rip face. I have also been doing some reading and people say it will do better in a smaller sealed box because the top end will not suffer as much.
 
Last edited:
T

tcarcio

Audioholic General
I don't use a computor with my set up but will Monsterman need to boost the signal from his lfe out to the amp? I know these amps need at least 1.4v of input to output full power. I use a samson s-convert with mine so if the soundcard doesn't put out at least 1.4v he will need one also. Also Monsterman is very easy to do business with as I am the person he bought the sub from. Very friendly and he has already paid me so if anyone does any business with him there are no worries. Thanks again Monsterman......:cool:
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
I don't use a computor with my set up but will Monsterman need to boost the signal from his lfe out to the amp? I know these amps need at least 1.4v of input to output full power. I use a samson s-convert with mine so if the soundcard doesn't put out at least 1.4v he will need one also. Also Monsterman is very easy to do business with as I am the person he bought the sub from. Very friendly and he has already paid me so if anyone does any business with him there are no worries. Thanks again Monsterman......:cool:
The only way is to try it and find out... He could also email the vendor of the sound card and see if the know what the output level is.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
It seems to be sub day today!

Here is the model of this sub.

That driver is definitely for sealed use only. It does not model well vented and needs a 7 cu. ft enclosure, and there are much better options for that application.

xmax for that driver is 28 mm, which is excellent. The F3 in your enclosure is 40 Hz 12 db roll off per octave. So it around 12 db down at 20 Hz. It will tolerate some Eq, at 12 db per octave boost starting at 40 Hz. However by applying Eq to the driver to 20 Hz, you will consume a lot of the drivers power capacity and reach xmax limit. You will with every sealed application. So if Eq is applied to extend the flat response to 20 Hz, the spl will be limited to around 103 db. Still pretty loud, but not window shattering by any means.

I think the 4 cu. ft. box volume is about right, that gives about the lowest achievable Fs for that driver and Qtc is just below 0.5 at 0.485. This will make it a very good music sub. The bass will be very tight and controlled, there will be no boom whatever. Some Hollywood explosions may seem a little tame. This will be a very well mannered sub, and I would think you would be able to pick out the tympani notes just fine.

I think it will need the Eq though to really perform, and this is normal for all sealed drivers. It has enough xmax to tolerate it.
I think for the OP this sub will be amazing. At his budget it's a steal.
 
M

monsterman

Audioholic
The only way is to try it and find out... He could also email the vendor of the sound card and see if the know what the output level is.
Another option is to run the output from the Audioengine A5's subwoofer output stereo jack's. http://www.audioengineusa.com/tech_stuff_a5.php

I have been doing some research and no one has given me a clear response yet on the output voltage for on-board sound cards in standard motherboards. I have read they are build around 5V but generally centered around 2.5 volts. Hopefully this is the case, otherwise http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829271004 are said to be at least 2V
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
Another option is to run the output from the Audioengine A5's subwoofer output stereo jack's. http://www.audioengineusa.com/tech_stuff_a5.php

I have been doing some research and no one has given me a clear response yet on the output voltage for on-board sound cards in standard motherboards. I have read they are build around 5V but generally centered around 2.5 volts. Hopefully this is the case, otherwise http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829271004 are said to be at least 2V
Most likely the cards RMS output voltage is 2.4.
 
M

monsterman

Audioholic
Most likely the cards RMS output voltage is 2.4.
Would my amp be comfortable with this?

The more reading I do the more I see people running some sort of EQ's. Is it necessary to do this or could I just use an EQ in lets say ... Windows media player? Don't I need something to tell the amp to only send a certain signal to the subwoofer?
 
M

monsterman

Audioholic
I think I will end up getting an EQ for my setup. I need help picking one out. I found a few on my local Craigslist. I will link the specs page for each along with price. Will any of these work for what I need them to do?


http://www.rane.com/pdf/old/seq30sman.pdf
RANE SEQ-30S - $120

http://www.dbxpro.com/215/215.php
DBX 215 GRAPHIC EQUALIZER - $100

http://www.dbxpro.com/1231/1231.php
DBX 1231 - $200 Seems like too much

http://www.rane.com/pe17.html
Rane PE 17- $200 Seems expensive

http://bfdguide.ws/
Behringer BFD 1124P -$75

Side note: So I will be connecting my Audioengine A5's to the green 1/8" output on my soundcard or the right channel only? I will be connecting my EQ to the Subwoofer output on the sound card or the back of the Audioengine Subwoofer RCA output on the back of the speaker to the EQ? I only question because I'm reading the REW article on HTS forum Jin linked earlier and I question my connections and need to order cabling.
 
Last edited:
M

monsterman

Audioholic
Yes you are correct, the optimal box volume for that driver is just over 1.6 cu. ft. That raises the F3 to 44 Hz, however, with no Eq, cone displacement is 6 mm less at 20 Hz, so more power can be applied with Eq. Inexperienced DIYers always try and go for lowest F3 and far more often than not that is a mistake.

Qtc comes up to around 0.7 which would make it a better HT sub.

I modeled the sub as offered for sale. With a Qtc below 0.5 that sub will be very dry. I would probably like it but a lot of people wouldn't. Their reaction would be that there is no bass, and they would tend to turn the driver up too high and run it out of gas. However as a classical music sub it is likely stellar. If the OP is not a classical music fan, he likely will want to pass or build the smaller box.

With this smaller box design Eq of 12 db per octave should be applied starting at 50 Hz.
With 1400 watts at hand couldn't I just EQ it to my liking/ drive the piss out of it? I can see how it could be slightly tame but if the problem is centered around 'dryness' couldn't a boost here and there make it significantly better? I did the calculation and my room is 1600 cf.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
With 1400 watts at hand couldn't I just EQ it to my liking/ drive the piss out of it? I can see how it could be slightly tame but if the problem is centered around 'dryness' couldn't a boost here and there make it significantly better? I did the calculation and my room is 1600 cf.
First of all you may well like the sub the way it is.

However you need to look at my plots. The power rating of the driver is the overall power rating. Now look at the electrical power rating, you will see that as with all drivers the power the driver can handle is limited in the bass. You will see that the power the driver can handle becomes progressively limited below 35 Hz.

Now look at the cone displacement graph. You will note that at 20 Hz without EQ the cone displacement is already 20 mm out of a max of 28 mm, at full power at that frequency. So you can't Eq the piss out of it without getting to the non linear range, and or destroying the driver. So in order to Eq the sub correctly to achieve flat response you have to reduce the average level. Note the smaller box has a cone displacement of 14 mm at 20 Hz without Eq, which leaves 50% of the driver xmax for Eq. Your sub by the way has very good performance for a sealed sub. Sealed subs by their nature are inefficient because the entire driver rear radiation has to be absorbed. Only the front of the cone is available to generate spl.

The next issue is Qtc. Now most speaker systems are resonant. A reflex enclosure is a combination of driver and box resonance designed to maximize spl. Sealed speakers are also resonant to a degree, because the driver is a spring and so is the air trapped in the box.

Now Q is the quality of the resonance. In essence that it means the width of the resonant peak. The lower the Q the narrower the base of the peak. When a resonant peak is narrow enough the ear does not perceive it as resonance. For instance very narrow band cabinet resonances are not audible. It is generally accepted that a Q of 0.5 is essentially non resonant as far as human perception is concerned. However a lot of listeners seem to like their bass embellished by a little resonance, and most speakers have a range of Qtc between 0.7 and 1.0. In my view that is not natural reproduction. I prefer non resonant reproduction with a Q of around O.5. This can not be achieved with a Qb4 ported enclosure.

Now you can not change Q, or its auditory perception with Eq.

So it may be you will like your sub with a Q around 0.5. In my view that gives accurate bass reproduction. However don't be surprised if it sounds different from what you are used to, especially if you are used to listening to ported speakers.

Of the designs that can be aligned for low Q, they include sealed, band pass (especially second order), IB, open baffle and aperiodically damped transmission lines, with second order roll off.

IBs are not practical for most. Sealed and open baffle enclosures have high turnover points with high F3. They require drivers with a large xmax and will require equalization in the last octave and often into the second octave.

Transmission lines can achieve essentially non resonant reproduction with efficiencies comparable to ported designs. They utilize the rear cone radiation and have significant port output, and over a greater frequency range without peaking than the port of a Qb4 reflex.

So in essence you have to decide how you take your poison.
 
M

monsterman

Audioholic
It will probably be plenty loud as it is. But Audioholics are perfectionists by nature. We are stubborn and lack the ability to say enough is enough. I will take your advice.
 
WmAx

WmAx

Audioholic Samurai
Now you can not change Q, or its auditory perception with Eq.
This is not accurate. The final acoustic 'Q' can be modified using equalization. The final acoustic response is all that matters - and is what defines the dampening.

That being said, in reality, there is no 'resonance' to be heard as long as no hump in response exists. A 4th order roll off from a ported system is not shown to have any audible consequence in any credible perceptual study of which I'm aware. In fact, I have created my own controlled tests to compare these effects - and the only things that mattered practically were actual extension, and lack of response peaks/humps.

-Chris
 
newsletter

  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top