SVS vs Klipsch ? what to choose

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shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Yes, I am not currently running ARC and am letting XT32 do all the EQ/RC. I am able to get a nice flat response with just Audyssey and careful placement but, I am always looking to refine.

Yes, I have been experimenting with different cut off points and have seen better results with limiting Audyssey to the lower frequencies.

Already on that one and it is a planned upgrade down the road when funds permit. I'm thinking of getting a 5 channel and just letting the Denon handle the heights(or at least a three channel minimum for the front stage). Not sure what amp yet though but, something that definitely measures better then my Denon. I'd like a Parasound A51 but, don't know if I can stomach the price tag.

Really? You might be the first person I have ever heard critical of the PSA subs. They get pretty amazing reviews and their measured performance is crazy compared to brands like SVS(PSA is owned by one of the SVS founders I am sure you know). JTR gets amazing reviews too but, the wait for those is often extremely long. You don't think the TV2112 would still have crazy low bass with its 21" drivers? I am aware PSA highlights mid bass but, still. I talked to one guy that had 2 x PB16 Ultra and he said these have almost 3 times the output and completely put them to shame in all aspects.

I'll have to check that out. I thought about getting a MiniDSP 2x4 HD a while back but, I was able to get my response pretty flat so I kyboshed the idea to put the funds elsewhere. Here is my response a while back. I still have work to do in the higher bass but, from 20-100hz I don't think I could get it much better. This is in an absolutely horrible room acoustically too and I will be buying a new house soon with a better room to work with...

For amplifiers, maybe an Outlaw Model 7220 as a lower-cost alternative to the Parasound? Or the Monoprice Monolith amps as a cheaper solution than that?

For PSA vs SVS, PSA has no measurements. Any third-party measurements of their models are many years old. The drivers a made for bass above 40Hz, and the enclosures look too small for serious deep bass. My guess is that they would start compressing the low end very quickly. Look at it this way, JTR's drivers are far more suited to deep bass, yes look how large the enclosures are for his ported subs. That is how you go about subwoofer design if you are after real deep bass performance.

As for the PB16-Ultra, yes the PSA subs will sound perceptually louder than the PB16-Ultra, but that is because the 16-Ultra driver is very heavy and unusually insensitive in the mid-bass region. If you low-passed the performance in the comparison above 40Hz, the SVS sub may have sounded better and more powerful. They have nearly opposite performance profiles, and perceptually it favors the PSA subs since mid-bass is so much easier to sense than deep bass. However, the subs I recommended do good with both deep bass and mid-bass. For just one example, you could get four Hsu VTF-15h mk2s for less than the cost of two of those ported 21"s from PSA. The 21"s only advantage would likely be headroom at 50Hz and above. It would get outperformed in deep bass, and it would bear a worse frequency response. And four VTF-15h Mk2s would have all the mid-bass output you would ever hope for. The problem is that for home audio subs, trading deep bass for mid-bass is not a good exchange. Mid-bass is easy to get; clean, powerful deep bass is the hard part.

Your frequency response is very good, and it is impressive that you are able to do that with just two subs. I really liked the Defiance X12s, they were great mid-bass performers with some good output below 30 Hz. They were a lot more comfortable above 25Hz. You ought to be looking at subs with strong performance in the 16-32Hz range for a real difference in your next sub upgrade.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Overlord
For amplifiers, maybe an Outlaw Model 7220 as a lower-cost alternative to the Parasound? Or the Monoprice Monolith amps as a cheaper solution than that?
I think the Monolith is an excellent amp. Super clean, audiophile quality and lots of power. The 7 channel is a really good value and hard to beat, imo.
 
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Tachead7075

Audioholic
For amplifiers, maybe an Outlaw Model 7220 as a lower-cost alternative to the Parasound? Or the Monoprice Monolith amps as a cheaper solution than that?

For PSA vs SVS, PSA has no measurements. Any third-party measurements of their models are many years old. The drivers a made for bass above 40Hz, and the enclosures look too small for serious deep bass. My guess is that they would start compressing the low end very quickly. Look at it this way, JTR's drivers are far more suited to deep bass, yes look how large the enclosures are for his ported subs. That is how you go about subwoofer design if you are after real deep bass performance.

As for the PB16-Ultra, yes the PSA subs will sound perceptually louder than the PB16-Ultra, but that is because the 16-Ultra driver is very heavy and unusually insensitive in the mid-bass region. If you low-passed the performance in the comparison above 40Hz, the SVS sub may have sounded better and more powerful. They have nearly opposite performance profiles, and perceptually it favors the PSA subs since mid-bass is so much easier to sense than deep bass. However, the subs I recommended do good with both deep bass and mid-bass. For just one example, you could get four Hsu VTF-15h mk2s for less than the cost of two of those ported 21"s from PSA. The 21"s only advantage would likely be headroom at 50Hz and above. It would get outperformed in deep bass, and it would bear a worse frequency response. And four VTF-15h Mk2s would have all the mid-bass output you would ever hope for. The problem is that for home audio subs, trading deep bass for mid-bass is not a good exchange. Mid-bass is easy to get; clean, powerful deep bass is the hard part.

Your frequency response is very good, and it is impressive that you are able to do that with just two subs. I really liked the Defiance X12s, they were great mid-bass performers with some good output below 30 Hz. They were a lot more comfortable above 25Hz. You ought to be looking at subs with strong performance in the 16-32Hz range for a real difference in your next sub upgrade.
Yes, I definitely have some research to do. I also have to decide how much I want to spend because as you know there are plenty of options from Emotiva XPA-5 and Monolith right on up to $30K or more lol. No rush anyway as I just dropped $4K on my heights and other upgrades. Plus, my room is only 17.5 x 11.5 x 8' so I might not need anymore power until I get my new place.

Ok good to know. Thanks Shady. PSA is releasing measuments for their subs soon so I will be sure to compare the main contenders before buying(SVS, HSU, Rythmik, PSA, JTR). I might even hit you up again if you don't mind when I'm closer to ready to buy.

Yeah, I am pretty happy with them I will just need more jam when I get my new place with a larger room and a lot more power below 25hz and above too. Here is the best I could do a while back(1/6th smoothing) but, I have added a bunch of treatment and am doing a full ground up calibration again once I install the new heights...









 
T

Tachead7075

Audioholic
I think the Monolith is an excellent amp. Super clean, audiophile quality and lots of power. The 7 channel is a really good value and hard to beat, imo.
Yeah, it is definitely one I am considering and seams to be popular(Edit: I see it is made in the US too which is appealing). But, I hope to be able to push for something above the lower end though guys(Emotiva, Monolith, etc) as it may one day end up powering Revel PerformaBe or another high end option. My prerequisites are it cannot be made in China and has to measure considerably better then my current Denon 4500H. I would also like at least 250watts RMS@8ohms if not 300. Preferably an all metal chassis too including the face plate and a good long warranty.

I'm waiting on measurements of the new Anthem MCA Gen 2 as that is by far my easiest option. I have to see where they are built too though as I will go out of my way and pay more to not buy from China(I know it can't be avoided sometimes but, I do my best). There is an Anthem dealer less then a 5 minute drive from my house lol.
 
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Kingnoob

Kingnoob

Audioholic General
I’d say denon is better then monolith or anthem . Only if your filthy rich go with the latter
Infinity or jbl when on sale beat the svs ,
Klipch rp line is clearer , but reference is good too . If you like powerful treble if not ehhh Costco returns policy?

 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Yeah, it is definitely one I am considering and seams to be popular(Edit: I see it is made in the US too which is appealing). But, I hope to be able to push for something above the lower end though guys(Emotiva, Monolith, etc) as it may one day end up powering Revel PerformaBe or another high end option. My prerequisites are it cannot be made in China and has to measure considerably better then my current Denon 4500H. I would also like at least 250watts RMS@8ohms if not 300. Preferably an all metal chassis too including the face plate and a good long warranty.

I'm waiting on measurements of the new Anthem MCA Gen 2 as that is by far my easiest option. I have to see where they are built too though as I will go out of my way and pay more to not buy from China(I know it can't be avoided sometimes but, I do my best). There is an Anthem dealer less then a 5 minute drive from my house lol.
FWIW ATI makes the Monolith amps as well as some of the Outlaw amps (as well as other brands electronics). Anthem MCA 325 Gen2 and some of their other power amps seems to be made in Canada....
 
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Tachead7075

Audioholic
FWIW ATI makes the Monolith amps as well as some of the Outlaw amps (as well as other brands electronics). Anthem MCA 325 Gen2 and some of their other power amps seems to be made in Canada....
Thanks for the info. I have been considering ATI as well but, they seam pretty hard to get up here. Lots of options so, I have some research to do. No rush anyway as I hope the 4500H will be sufficient until I get a larger room(it is now without the Heights).
 

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