SVS vs Klipsch ? what to choose

[alphasig293]

Yeah, seems everyone is pushing SVS for subs.

 

[shadyJ]

Why do you need to call them directly when you order? I've been stuck on upgrading my Onkyo HTIB speakers for awhile. I purchased a Denon x3700 last fall and I really need to pull this trigger. I utilize a projector and just project onto a painted wall. My primary usage is just a HT, movies, TV/Sports, Gaming.

I get torn between Klipsch and SVS. My space is 28' x 23' x 7.5', so fairly large.

Costco is having a big Klipsch sale right now, you can get a Reference Dolby Atmos system for $800

• 2 - R-625FA Tower Speakers
• 2 - R-41M Bookshelf Speakers
• 1 - R-52C Center Channel Speaker

Pair that with two subs (R-12SW $150 each) and additional BS r-41s for $80. I now have a 7.2.2 system for $1,200.

An SVS Pinnacle Surround (similar set up would be $4500)
SVS Prime Tower - $3800
SVS Ultra BS - $4700

Trying to get pricing on better Klipsch ($3,200). If I go with:

• 2 - R-820F Tower Speakers
• 4 - R-51M Bookshelf Speakers
• 1 - R-34C Center Channel Speaker
• 2 - R-41SA
• 2 - R-120SW

I'm sure I probably have different levels of equipment here based on price alone, but will the Klipsch 820 system perform that much better than the 625s? What about the SVS systems?

thanks!

I think Klipsch is worth avoiding for their center speaker design alone. If I were you, I would be looking at Monoprice Monolith THX speakers or Hsu CCB-8s along with some good subwoofers. You don't need towers if you have good subs.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Yeah, seems everyone is pushing SVS for subs.

I didn’t mention SVS for subs. I just said there are better options than klipsch.
In fact they’ve lost some luster in my eyes. There’s no doubt that their CS is unmatched. But the reason they can offer that is from the premium that they charge for their products that every single customer pays for. Most don’t need to take advantage of the trade in program, or warranty services so if you DO need to, they’re still making margins.
I’m certainly NOT knocking them, and yes I even own some. But IMHO, they’re are better options, academically speaking. Like HSU, Rythmik, psa, monoprice etc.
BTW, it’s not an accident that “everyone is pushing SVS subs”. They are better.
But so are others.
The point is, you’re asking for advice. We just want to save you the headache of buying twice.

 

[Danzilla31]

No. The problem with the "harsh" reputation is that several generations ago and to this day to some extent, Klipsch manufactured budget speakers "reference" you can get at stores like Best Buy and other discount brick and morter outlets. The Reference Premier line always was a step above and not what you would find at Best Buy. So naturally, the uneducated public that only had experience with Klipsch's budget lines they heard at the store powered by some cheap amplifier would go around claiming they're harsh and they likely were. But these people never heard the top of the line stuff like Heritage or Forte powered by quality equipment. When someone claims Klipsch is harsh.. well. You're dealing with a special person that doesn't live in the same world as people that know what Klipsch's other offerings are. I'm not one to legitimize someone's opinion based on their only experience being the entry level.

That's a nice build and those RF7iii's are a very special speaker.

Once you get to that level of Klipsch especially this third generation your getting something special

Congratulations

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

That's a nice build and those RF7iii's are a very special speaker.

Once you get to that level of Klipsch especially this third generation your getting something special

Congratulations

Yeah, if I were buying Klipsch for myself or family, it would be the RF7iii or the THX Ultra2 system.

 

[Teetertotter?]

I had Klipsch bookshelf R 51M for DD movies and they were not that bad. I recently replaced with JBL Stage A130, bookshelf for Front L/R. R 51M was not that good for streaming internet mp3. It is the CENTER speaker that makes a huge difference for me. The rest blend in for DD HT, for me. My room is 10 X 12.

 

[Pogre]

SVS over Klipsch all day, every day. I started out with Ultra books and a pair of subs then eventually got the Ultra towers and absolutely loved them. If I'm being honest I got the towers more for just having towers than any lack of performance from the books. Crossed over to a sub there's not a whole lot of difference. The Ultra books can handle some power and can get very loud without misbehaving or bottoming out. In fact I've never bottomed them out, even full range at some pretty spirited volume levels.

Keep an eye on the outlet for deals. That's where I got all of mine and paid $399 apiece for them. Some of the blemishes are so insignificant you'll be challenged to find them. Just check the images they provide.

 

[shadyJ]

SVS over Klipsch all day, every day. I started out with Ultra books and a pair of subs then eventually got the Ultra towers and absolutely loved them. If I'm being honest I got the towers more for just having towers than any lack of performance from the books. Crossed over to a sub there's not a whole lot of difference. The Ultra books can handle some power and can get very loud without misbehaving or bottoming out. In fact I've never bottomed them out, even full range at some pretty spirited volume levels.

Keep an eye on the outlet for deals. That's where I got all of mine and paid $399 apiece for them. Some of the blemishes are so insignificant you'll be challenged to find them. Just check the images they provide.

I mostly agree with SVS over Klipsch, but I did like the RP-8000F more than the Prime Pinnacles. If it was for a two-channel system and those were the choices, I would go for Klipsch. Unfortunately, Klipsch doesn't have much else that is great or on the level with SVS.

 

[Pogre]

I mostly agree with SVS over Klipsch, but I did like the RP-8000F more than the Prime Pinnacles. If it was for a two-channel system and those were the choices, I would go for Klipsch. Unfortunately, Klipsch doesn't have much else that is great or on the level with SVS.

Ah. Well I'm guilty of only reading the first post this time and saw he had mentioned bookshelf speakers.

I did read your review on the 8000Fs and saw the measurements tho. They do look like very good speakers and I could definitely see an argument for preferring them over the Pinnacles.

 

[Tachead7075]

I mostly agree with SVS over Klipsch, but I did like the RP-8000F more than the Prime Pinnacles. If it was for a two-channel system and those were the choices, I would go for Klipsch. Unfortunately, Klipsch doesn't have much else that is great or on the level with SVS.

Where do you rate the Paradigm Premier 800F in that comparison Shady? Thanks.

 

[shadyJ]

Where do you rate the Paradigm Premier 800F in that comparison Shady? Thanks.

The Premier 800F was my favorite in tower speakers in that price range.

 

[Tachead7075]

The Premier 800F was my favorite in tower speakers in that price range.

Thanks Shady. Did you test the Revel F35 or F36? I wonder how they compare? They sure seam to measure better(at least with the limited measurements I have seen). The 800F does sound pretty good though...

 

[shadyJ]

Thanks Shady. Did you test the Revel F35 or F36? I wonder how they compare? They sure seam to measure better(at least with the limited measurements I have seen). The 800F does sound pretty good though...

I didn't test those speakers but I imagine they would be pretty good. I did test their little brother the M16, and that was very good.

 

[Tachead7075]

I didn't test those speakers but I imagine they would be pretty good. I did test their little brother the M16, and that was very good.

Thanks, good to know. I am running 800F's in my living room now and am definitely not regretfully as they sound quite good and look great, I was just wondering how they(Concerts 2) would compare as they measure pretty good. I'm thinking I am going to give Revel a go next time I feel like a change.

I vote SVS op. I went with their Prime Elevation's to match my piano black 800F's.

 

[shadyJ]

Thanks, good to know. I am running 800F's in my living room now and am definitely not regretfully as they sound quite good and look great, I was just wondering how they(Concerts 2) would compare as they measure pretty good. I'm thinking I am going to give Revel a go next time I feel like a change.

I vote SVS op. I went with their Prime Elevation's to match my piano black 800F's.

Honestly, I don't think Revel Concerto2 series would be a step up from those Premiers. In fact, the Premier center speakers are probably significantly better than the Concerto2 centers. Paradigm really hit it out of the park with the Premiers, in my opinion. I just hope the Founders series turn out to be as good. If you want a significant step up from the Premiers from Revel, you will probably have to go for the PerformaBe series.

 

[Tachead7075]

Honestly, I don't think Revel Concerto2 series would be a step up from those Premiers. In fact, the Premier center speakers are probably significantly better than the Concerto2 centers. Paradigm really hit it out of the park with the Premiers, in my opinion. I just hope the Founders series turn out to be as good. If you want a significant step up from the Premiers from Revel, you will probably have to go for the PerformaBe series.

Yeah, I am definitely not a fan of the C25 and am pretty sure my 3-way 600C is the better center overall. 800F vs F36, I agree probably not a huge improvement but, the Concerto2 is likely more neutral with even better off axis performance though and without the weird high frequency peak/null. I would have demoed the two and bought my preference but, there is a Paradigm dealership 5 minutes from my house(their production facility is also in the same province) and Revel are much harder to find and demo in Canada.

I too hope the Founder's turn out good. They are definitely getting good reviews so far as a couple of guys on AVS have them in house already.

Yes, my plan at this point is to replace my 800F/600C/200B setup with Revel F208/C208/M106 or F226be/C426be/M126Be in a few years when the warranty runs out. You don't think something like the F206 would still be a large improvement over my 800F's? Being 2.5 times the price I would hope so lol. I plan to push for Be though if my wallet can take it...

 

[shadyJ]

Yeah, I am definitely not a fan of the C25 and am pretty sure my 3-way 600C is the better center overall. 800F vs F36, I agree probably not a huge improvement but, the Concerto2 is likely more neutral with even better off axis performance though and without the weird high frequency peak/null. I would have demoed the two and bought my preference but, there is a Paradigm dealership 5 minutes from my house(their production facility is also in the same province) and Revel are much harder to find and demo in Canada.

I too hope the Founder's turn out good. They are definitely getting good reviews so far as a couple of guys on AVS have them in house already.

Yes, my plan at this point is to replace my 800F/600C/200B setup with Revel F208/C208/M106 or F226be/C426be/M126Be in a few years when the warranty runs out. You don't think something like the F206 would still be a large improvement over my 800F's? Being 2.5 times the price I would hope so lol. I plan to push for Be though if my wallet can take it...

I wouldn't be so concerned with loudspeaker warranties. Loudspeakers don't generally break by themselves and follow a pretty hard "bathtub curve" of reliability. They either break right away or break decades down the road. The exception is self-powered loudspeakers, especially ones with plate amps.

If the Revel Performa3 series offers an improvement in sound over the Paradigm Premiers, I am guessing it is not a huge one. Quite honestly, it doesn't seem like enough of an upgrade to be worth it. The PerformaBe series might be. I am not badmouthing Revel at all either, it's just that the Premiers are really good. They have a very good off-axis response, not quite as perfect as Revel F226Be, but the audible difference wouldn't be huge. As for the upper treble, that doesn't occur until well above 10kHz, again, only faintly audible and probably not noticeable in real-world content.

If it were me, I wouldn't be looking at speakers for an upgrade path but rather other ways to control the sound. I would be looking at getting the bass flat with a multi-sub system. I would also look at Dirac as an equalization system, especially with Dirac's Bass Control system. I am sure that would make a more profound and improved change to the sound than the kind of upgrades that you are looking at.

 

[Tachead7075]

I wouldn't be so concerned with loudspeaker warranties. Loudspeakers don't generally break by themselves and follow a pretty hard "bathtub curve" of reliability. They either break right away or break decades down the road. The exception is self-powered loudspeakers, especially ones with plate amps.

If the Revel Performa3 series offers an improvement in sound over the Paradigm Premiers, I am guessing it is not a huge one. Quite honestly, it doesn't seem like enough of an upgrade to be worth it. The PerformaBe series might be. I am not badmouthing Revel at all either, it's just that the Premiers are really good. They have a very good off-axis response, not quite as perfect as Revel F226Be, but the audible difference wouldn't be huge. As for the upper treble, that doesn't occur until well above 10kHz, again, only faintly audible and probably not noticeable in real-world content.

If it were me, I wouldn't be looking at speakers for an upgrade path but rather other ways to control the sound. I would be looking at getting the bass flat with a multi-sub system. I would also look at Dirac as an equalization system, especially with Dirac's Bass Control system. I am sure that would make a more profound and improved change to the sound than the kind of upgrades that you are looking at.

Yeah, it's more an excuse to get something new really... Aka upgradeitis lol. It's only my subs that really concerns me warranty wise. I'm definitely not in a rush either as I have only had the Para setup for a year. I am also considering building a seperate 2.2 listening room which may change things(I may keep the Paras).

Ok, good to know. I am likely going to audition but, will push for Be if I go Revel.

I have definitely invested into other ways as well. I have a CSL calibrated UMIK-1 with a K&M mic stand and a Reed Instruments SPL Meter that reaches down to 20hz. I am also currently reading Floyd Toole's textbook and plan to get the Master Book of Acoustics too to expand my knowledge further. I have spent the year carefully dialing in my room and it is now heavily treated with broadband absorption and bass traps(still a work in progress though). I am running duel subs(Paradigm X12's) and have dialed them for as smooth of an in room response as possible in my non-ideal room. I also carefully selected components including all matching high quality cables to all components(no silly stuff though) and isolation feet on all monitors to stop any room vibration and other resonances. I use Audyssey XT32 now(Denon 4500H) and also have ARC on my subs but, have considered trying Dirac. At the same time though, I have been trying to use as little EQ as possible and using placement and room treatment to do the bulk of the work. I hope to one day not have to use an EQ when I get a better room to work with.

I have a set of 4 SVS Prime Elevation on the way to upgrade to 5.2.4 and I am thinking my next upgrade is going to be 2 x PSA TV2112 or TV21ipal to replace the X12's and take my bass to the next level!

Thanks for all of your help by the way too Shady. It has been helpful and I really appreciate you taking the time. Keep up the good work on your reviews too.

 

[shadyJ]

Yeah, it's more an excuse to get something new really... Aka upgradeitis lol. It's only my subs that really concerns me warranty wise. I'm definitely not in a rush either as I have only had the Para setup for a year. I am also considering building a seperate 2.2 listening room which may change things(I may keep the Paras).

Ok, good to know. I am likely going to audition but, will push for Be if I go Revel.

I have definitely invested into other ways as well. I have a CSL calibrated UMIK-1 with a K&M mic stand and a Reed Instruments SPL Meter that reaches down to 20hz. I am also currently reading Floyd Toole's textbook and plan to get the Master Book of Acoustics too to expand my knowledge further. I have spent the year carefully dialing in my room and it is now heavily treated with broadband absorption and bass traps(still a work in progress though). I am running duel subs(Paradigm X12's) and have dialed them for as smooth of an in room response as possible in my non-ideal room. I also carefully selected components including all matching high quality cables to all components(no silly stuff though) and isolation feet on all monitors to stop any room vibration and other resonances. I use Audyssey XT32 now(Denon 4500H) and also have ARC on my subs but, have considered trying Dirac. At the same time though, I have been trying to use as little EQ as possible and using placement and room treatment to do the bulk of the work. I hope to one day not have to use an EQ when I get a better room to work with.

I have a set of 4 SVS Prime Elevation on the way to upgrade to 5.2.4 and I am thinking my next upgrade is going to be 2 x PSA TV2112 or TV21ipal to replace the X12's and take my bass to the next level!

Thanks for all of your help by the way too Shady. It has been helpful and I really appreciate you taking the time. Keep up the good work on your reviews too.

If I was going to run ARC on the subs, make sure that procedure was done first before running Audyssey. I am not even sure ARC is worth running at all if you can run Audyssey on top of it. I have to wonder what kind of delay ARC adds, which is why you need to run Audyssey after ARC. Honestly, Dirac is easily superior to Audyssey. Also, you would not want to run ARC with Dirac, so if you go the Dirac route, do not use other EQs with it except for tone controls if you wanted.

With Audyssey, I would limit it to the room's transition frequency and below. I would not run Audyssey above 500Hz when the speakers are decent, as yours are.

Since you will be running nine channels off of the Denon, you might think about separate amplification, at least for the front three. Dividing an AVR's power supply among nine speakers is a lot, even when your AVR is a good one like that Denon.

The PSA subs would not be my first choice as an upgrade for the Paradigm subs. My guess is that the design will give you massive mid-bass but middling deep bass performance. I think it would be imbalanced. I would be looking at JTR, Monoprice Monolith, or a quad Hsu system for something that will have better overall performance. Those would give you all the mid-bass you would ever want but also give you very powerful and low-distortion deep bass.

One thing you might consider down the road is a Monolith HTP-1 with the Dirac Sub Control upgrade. That can independently calibrate five subwoofers. Add four good subs with good placement, and you can get a perfect response.

 

[Tachead7075]

If I was going to run ARC on the subs, make sure that procedure was done first before running Audyssey. I am not even sure ARC is worth running at all if you can run Audyssey on top of it. I have to wonder what kind of delay ARC adds, which is why you need to run Audyssey after ARC. Honestly, Dirac is easily superior to Audyssey. Also, you would not want to run ARC with Dirac, so if you go the Dirac route, do not use other EQs with it except for tone controls if you wanted.

With Audyssey, I would limit it to the room's transition frequency and below. I would not run Audyssey above 500Hz when the speakers are decent, as yours are.

Since you will be running nine channels off of the Denon, you might think about separate amplification, at least for the front three. Dividing an AVR's power supply among nine speakers is a lot, even when your AVR is a good one like that Denon.

The PSA subs would not be my first choice as an upgrade for the Paradigm subs. My guess is that the design will give you massive mid-bass but middling deep bass performance. I think it would be imbalanced. I would be looking at JTR, Monoprice Monolith, or a quad Hsu system for something that will have better overall performance. Those would give you all the mid-bass you would ever want but also give you very powerful and low-distortion deep bass.

One thing you might consider down the road is a Monolith HTP-1 with the Dirac Sub Control upgrade. That can independently calibrate five subwoofers. Add four good subs with good placement, and you can get a perfect response.

Yes, I am not currently running ARC and am letting XT32 do all the EQ/RC. I am able to get a nice flat response with just Audyssey and careful placement but, I am always looking to refine.

Yes, I have been experimenting with different cut off points and have seen better results with limiting Audyssey to the lower frequencies.

Already on that one and it is a planned upgrade down the road when funds permit. I'm thinking of getting a 5 channel and just letting the Denon handle the heights(or at least a three channel minimum for the front stage). Not sure what amp yet though but, something that definitely measures better then my Denon. I'd like a Parasound A51 but, don't know if I can stomach the price tag.

Really? You might be the first person I have ever heard critical of the PSA subs. They get pretty amazing reviews and their measured performance is crazy compared to brands like SVS(PSA is owned by one of the SVS founders I am sure you know). JTR gets amazing reviews too but, the wait for those is often extremely long. You don't think the TV2112 would still have crazy low bass with its 21" drivers? I am aware PSA highlights mid bass but, still. I talked to one guy that had 2 x PB16 Ultra and he said these have almost 3 times the output and completely put them to shame in all aspects.

I'll have to check that out. I thought about getting a MiniDSP 2x4 HD a while back but, I was able to get my response pretty flat so I kyboshed the idea to put the funds elsewhere. Here is my response a while back. I still have work to do in the higher bass but, from 20-100hz I don't think I could get it much better. This is in an absolutely horrible room acoustically too and I will be buying a new house soon with a better room to work with...

http://imgur.com/fRRg4UF