SVS Visit 7-22-05

[MacManNM]

We didn’t make a wrong turn in Seattle; we actually did make that left turn in Albuquerque. I picked up Buck in my awesome 2005 Ford expedition, with the killer 3.5 watt stereo, and we jammed out all the way to the factory. We got there and were greeted by Stephen Ponte, SVS’s driver engineer. As we talked to Stephen, he showed us their products, and I must say I was very impressed with the fit and finish of them all. Good care was taken in the assembly process, and the tolerances of all the parts seemed very tight. I really liked the cylinder subs. (Note to Ron, dump the carpet and make them look like roman pillars, or something other than a cat scratching post) The PB12-Ultra/2, had the hand rubbed lacquer finish, it was beautiful. We discussed a lot of technical and he showed us the difference between the drivers. I have to say, that ultra driver is impressive. Then we started listening. We listened to several models:

PB10-ISD
PB12-ISD
PB12-Plus
PB12-Plus/2
B12-Plus/4
PB12-ISD/V
PB12-Ultra/2
25-31 PCI
16-46 PCI
PC-Ultra (a 20-39 with the ultra woofer and BASH amp)

One of the neat things about all of their products (save the ISD10) is that you can basically mix and match any combo, and tailor the sound to your liking. If you like a ton of really deep bass, you can put the plug ports in, and boost the bottom end of an eq, and poof, you have just shifted the FR of the unit down. If you like hard hitting, rock and roll type bass leave em’ out and start jamming. Then there is the woofer selection. They have the ISD, The PB12 (in the +), and the monstrous Ultra. You can go to their site and get more info.

I really liked the PC-Ultra, with no port plugs; I’m sure it would sound wonderful in a high end two channel setup The PB12-Ultra/2 is an awesome HT sub. It went deep and hit hard.

I would like to stress how pleasant this experience was, the folks at SV were courteous, informative and went out of their way to make us feel welcome.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

The trip started out just after 11am and went until almost 2pm this past Friday. The location is really out and away from the city limits. It's near Tibetts Wick and Belmont Avenue, northwest of Youngstown, Oh. SVS certaintly has a quiet place to conduct business. They own acres of land, and save on the higher rent district that accompanies many "in town" plants. If you blink, you'll miss the entrance. There's a small vinyl sign out front, not more than 36" wide. It's definitely not a store front, but it gets the job done. The building is basically a large house, converted into an office building, and a warehouse was added to store and assemble the product. Although we cannot post photos of the warehouse, it's about what you'd expect in a subwoofer mfg. plant. Clean and well organized would be two choice words.

The gentleman we met was Stephen Ponte, their new woofer designer. Stephen was with TC-Sounds until recently (San Diego-based maker of their Plus and Ultra woofers). Although very busy, he went out of his way to spend more than a third of his day showing us the ropes. We met some of the staff, most of which seemed like college guys that were really into A/V.

Mac and I brought about a dozen or so cd's to demo, as well as a test tone cd to see how low these units would go. We're both familiar with them on our own systems. On top of that, SVS had several audio cd's, as well as numerous dvd's. You'll see a photo of their collection below. It seemed there was no end to the video material available. One of our favorites was U571 and The Incredibles for HT, and the Talking Heads for audio. There were others, but just to name a few.

The equipment consisted of four Onkyo WRAT stereo amps, a 5.0 Sansui speaker system, a pro Meridian pre-amp, a Samsung DVD-A/SACD/DTS player, and a Samsung projection LCD tv. There was no receiver. Controlling the sound was all done via the rear plate amps. We were somewhat limited in that regard. Pictures to follow below.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

A few pictures at SVS

 

[Duffinator]

Buck, is that the ISD and Ultra woofers side by side? If that's the Ultra it's HUGE!

 

[MacManNM]

No, that is the Plus and the Ultra. The ISD is a Paper cone.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

MacManNM next to some PB10 ISD's

Here's some PB10 ISD's with the plus and ultra woofers.

Here's a photo of Mac and Stephen. Stephen was so kind as to get us a couple of really cool SVS t-shirts.

 

[Audioholics]

Thanks for posting this, guys. Very informative and well-written. I love the pics!

 

[MacManNM]

Thanks for posting this, guys. Very informative and well-written. I love the pics!

Sure, and thank you. I would like to encourage everyone to ask questions, I really don’t know what people want to know about these products, but we spent as much time as we could doing critical listening. I can see your job is no walk in the park!

 

[MacManNM]

By the way

That Ultra woofer in the pic was smoked hard. I guess it will take 1kW RMS. Stephen said it was very likely someone put a few kWs into it (RMS) to get it to come apart.

 

[ducker]

thanks for the post and the pics! very cool!

 

[Jwheel]

MacManNM,

From what I understand, the Ultra/2 is quite the sub. How do you think it compared to the B12 plus/4? I'm actually planning on buying two ultra/2's this fall/next spring.

 

[MacManNM]

MacManNM,

From what I understand, the Ultra/2 is quite the sub. How do you think it compared to the B12 plus/4? I'm actually planning on buying two ultra/2's this fall/next spring.

We didn't get to hear the +/4 They don't stock them and they are custom built to order. I thought the Ultra/2 was the best sounding HT sub there. It never bottomed out or distorted.

 

[Spiffyfast]

the ultra woofer is huge compared to the other, thats gotta put out some awesome bass

 

[jcPanny]

PB10-ISD Review

What did you guys think of the PB10-ISD? Do you think that it was adequate for an entry level Home Theater system? How would you compare it to other products in its price range? I'm more interested in accurate reproduction of bass for movies and music than SPLs that can shake the foundation.

Great pics.
Thanks.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

What did you guys think of the PB10-ISD? Do you think that it was adequate for an entry level Home Theater system? How would you compare it to other products in its price range? I'm more interested in accurate reproduction of bass for movies and music than SPLs that can shake the foundation.

Great pics.
Thanks.

The PB10, although a capable sub for a smaller room, was by far the least favorite of the pack. It definitely went low, but didn't seem to have the punch or power I like in an entry level sub. If you've ever demo'd a Sunfire cube with the passive radiator design, you'll know what this driver does with a signal. It seems to go into "convulsions". There is some really impressive movement in this little 10" driver. The cabinet is very large for such a small driver. Coupled with a ported design, it's almost too active for many types of music. Where a 10" sub usually provides the quick response time and punchy bass, this one attempts to equal it's larger brothers with very low frequencies. It does move the air, but falls short of hitting your chest. Stephen mentioned two of these units are the "cats meow." My only response was that one corner of a room was difficult enough to place a sub. Two? The better half would remove me and my equipment out on the street had I come home with two.

There are a lot of PB10 ISD owners here at Audioholics that have taken the time to calibrate this sub with their system, and most importantly, find the perfect placement. I would think in a smaller room, say 12x14, corner placement, it should suffice (like you said - adequate for entry level home theater). I think this sub is better suited for HT in its ability to go low, rather than keep up with faster paced music. As far as accurate reproduction of music? It was a tad slow with several audio cd's we listened to. When we spoke to Stephen (SVS's driver engineer) he agreed with us that music does not go below 25Hz. That deep bass we all so much desire from 16Hz to 25Hz is meant for HT reproduction. It's extremely difficult to design a sub to produce that ever sought after deep bass, as well as that quick punchy bass in one unit. If you're looking for the best musical sub, you want a "sealed box" or "acoustic suspension" sub with a separate pro audio amp. Sealed box type, high powered subs are outstanding, but require so much power (which means greenbacks), it makes it hard to market to the general public. Bass reflex (ported) subs are much more efficient in producing bass, but at a cost of speed and accuracy. You can't always have your cake, and eat it too.

I'm sure Mac will put in his two cents shortly.

 

[Privateer]

I think they need to spritz a little for a better demo room.

 

[MacManNM]

I pretty much agree with Buck on this, I'd just like to add a few comments. The bigger brothers of the ISD 10 have the ability to plug the ports, doing this with an EQ allows you to "tune" the sub for the room conditions. This also slightly drops the bandwidth and the upper end rolloff of the unit, while at the same time extending the low end. This also limits the SPL that the sub can play at. I think the 10" unit is a good compromise between the two. A great package with a good WAF. But it's still only a 10. I think that 2 of these would work well in an average sized room, it would just take some serious tweaking. Unless the room is pretty small, I'd say you are better off going with a 12" unit.

 

[MacManNM]

I think they need to spritz a little for a better demo room.

I don't think they get too many visitors there, but I agree.

 

[mulester7]

I think they need to spritz a little for a better demo room.

.....possibly so, Privateer, but subs, down-firing especially, just need to be in the room if you were trying to sell them at that location, which I doubt they push much....

....SVS is an internet company, period....none of their stuff is in stores....what's got them where they are, is word-of-listen/buy one/others listen/boat on hold, haha....quality and performance, has made SVS what it is....and Gentlemen, a home chamber will NEVER sound as "tight" as that chamber in the car did, unless you spend $2.8 Million, thus enters the frustration for a car-system enthusiast, of which I are one....

.....I am influenced by car-systems from the past, bigtime....I want bass to hit my whole body with subs providing the gunpowder....but, is that the way bass hits me at a live performance?....my HT pilgrimage is frustrating at times....I have to have more than just these two boxes in the corners up front, Buck, and don't know what to do.....I want to stand 10 feet from my front, and two, 10 or 12 inch subwoofers, somewhere in the general middle, off the floor at least 18 inches, cut from 50hz down, "POP" me, with AUTHORITY, "high and low", you know what I mean, and sound, VERY good, and ACCURATE OF PITCH in the high range, up to at least 100, maybe 120, and maybe only 80 or 90, who knows?....up HIGH in the sub frequency, even maybe 130, I want the small cannons to emit even unto, brassiness, concerning timbre or presence....and that's if that term can apply to a sub, brassiness, ok, maybe it don't, maybe it does, who knows?, but it does, where's my cage?......

 

[ptalar]

What was your impressions/perceptions of the PB12-Plus/2?

Phil