SVS SB12-Plus Subwoofer Review

gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
<P><FONT face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2><A href="http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/loudspeakers/SVSSB12Plusp1.php"><IMG style="WIDTH: 125px; HEIGHT: 119px" alt=[sb12] hspace=10 src="http://www.audioholics.com/news/thumbs/sb12_th.jpg" align=left vspace=5 border=0></A>SVSound has, once again, brought to the market a product that outright excels in the value-for-dollar category. It may be relatively small in size (about 1 cubic foot), but it’s SVSound through and through: well built, and lots of power and SPL output. Coupled with its collection of built-in processor features and it’s the logical choice for those who want the SVS sound without the refrigerator sized box.&nbsp; </FONT></P>
<P><FONT face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=2>[Read the Review]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; [Measurements &amp; Analysis]</FONT></P>
 
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jaxvon

jaxvon

Audioholic Ninja
Please....POST HIGH QUALITY PICS!

I'm really tired of trying to read measurement graphs and other images that have been reduced in quality to the point of being undreadable. It can't cost you that much more in bandwidth to post high quality images.
 
Sheep

Sheep

Audioholic Warlord
I mean no offense by this, but the review looks incomplete... :eek:

SheepStar
 
Tomorrow

Tomorrow

Audioholic Ninja
jaxvon said:
Please....POST HIGH QUALITY PICS!

I'm really tired of trying to read measurement graphs and other images that have been reduced in quality to the point of being undreadable. It can't cost you that much more in bandwidth to post high quality images.
Jax,

Are certain that bandwidth-cost is the reason for the less than perfect quality graphs?
 
jaxvon

jaxvon

Audioholic Ninja
That's the only reason I could think of. Seeing how the reviewer Mark was the one that created the graphs, he will have access to the hi-rez images. Unless their upload system is somehow designed to limit image sizes to some ridiculously small number, Mark or whoever was responsible for posting the review must've scaled the images to be very small in file size, thus resulting in the low quality. However, aside from bandwidth concerns, I don't know of any reason to make the images so small.
 
Sheep

Sheep

Audioholic Warlord
jaxvon said:
That's the only reason I could think of. Seeing how the reviewer Mark was the one that created the graphs, he will have access to the hi-rez images. Unless their upload system is somehow designed to limit image sizes to some ridiculously small number, Mark or whoever was responsible for posting the review must've scaled the images to be very small in file size, thus resulting in the low quality. However, aside from bandwidth concerns, I don't know of any reason to make the images so small.
Something tells me this was posted prematurely. There isn't a link to it on the front page, and the Listening session part consists of only a couple sentences, most of which do really make sense.

SheepStar
 
D

Davidt1

Full Audioholic
Apparently, the sub was tested in areas where it would excel and the results were presented in a carefully worded review. These days it's important to read what isn't being said as well as what's being said. With that understanding, I find the review sufficiently informative.
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
I mean no offense by this, but the review looks incomplete...
Not sure what else there is to ad to a 3,000 word, 10 page (word doc) on a $750 subwoofer. Perhaps you can fill in the rest of the info from a Consumer Reports or CNET review :rolleyes:

Something tells me this was posted prematurely. There isn't a link to it on the front page, and the Listening session part consists of only a couple sentences, most of which do really make sense.

SheepStar
1& 2. Bela Fleck & The Flecktones “Flight of the Cosmic Hippo” (Label: Warner Bros\WEA; ASIN: B000002LOZ) and “UFO Tofu” (Label: Label: Warner Bros / Wea; ASIN: B000002MF7) are both discs that’ll give any subwoofer a workout. Especially where it comes to assessing how well a sub can finesse the material presented to it. These tracks work well with their minimalist arrangements, there’s little for any bad sub behavior to hide behind.

Of particular interest here are “Flight of the Cosmic Hippo” found on “Flight of the Cosmic Hippo” and “Sex In A Pan”, found on the “UFO Tofu” album. On bass, Victor Wooten and on drumitar, Roy “Future Man” Wooten (pictured at right). The Flecktones self-styled “blu bop” is a quirky, virtuosic mix of jazz, blue grass and whatever else might be the inspiration of the moment.

These tracks never fail at revealing the flaws or limitations of lesser subs, said items making the bass lines sound bloated or loose, the drumitar’s “kick drum” sound, top heavy or over damped - all depending on the sub. The SB12-Plus responded to the challenge by filling the listening space with tight, clean rhythm bringing the Wooten Bros virtuosity to life in a lively, powerful way. Subjectively speaking, it’s not unusual to encounter the sort of quality performance the SB12 delivered, though typically you’ll find it in products costing much more or occupying more real estate.

3. Mickey Hart “Planet Drum” (Label: Rykodisc; ASIN: B0000009O6). This disk is packed with challenging, musically complex compositions for voice, percussion and little else.

In the face of such percussive complexity it’s easy for a sub to run out of dynamic headroom when pushed hard enough. The SB12-Plus is no exception, but owing to the quality of its design & components it maxed out gracefully, instead of simply collapsing in a heap of annoying distortion. Subsequent measurement showed the driver in the unit is held safe from harm by a built in limiter, hence its ability to play safely right out to the edges of its amplitude envelope. How well a sub deals with its own limitations when pushed hard enough is illuminating; whether or not excellence exists on the edge plays a role in determining the value of the product.

The Planet Drum disk has been around for quite a while and remains a favorite for putting any sub through its paces.


Last time I had a course in English, the text above qualified as more than a couple of sentences.

Keep in mind this thread is setup to discuss the product, NOT criticize the review and what you constitute as "complete".

I'm really tired of trying to read measurement graphs and other images that have been reduced in quality to the point of being undreadable. It can't cost you that much more in bandwidth to post high quality images
I reposted the measurement graphs so they are clearer. It is hard to import LMS graphs into our template without them losing resolution at the expensive of making the files too large.

Mark is working on getting his pics formatted as per our standard but I am more focused on having him concentrate his efforts on producing quality content you won't typically find in this industry especially.
 
R

Ron Temple

Senior Audioholic
The review was fine...revealing nothing surprising just another very solid SVS product. There was nothing there to be read between the lines. Until someone does a shootout with it's likely market targets, we are not going to be able to crown this offering. There's no need to over or under praise it.

Every amateur review I've read confirms that this is a great product. This review adds enough detail for confirmation. At this stage what more can you want.
 
B

billnchristy

Senior Audioholic
The Bela Fleck Live at the Quick DVD is an awesome test as well, with some wonderful visuals.
 
N

Nick250

Audioholic Samurai
I am guessing that what sheep was referring to is the lack of HT testing. If so, I agree. As someone who is considering an SB12, I am very interested in hearing about those capabilities. It seems like an odd omission even if it is sealed sub since for most of us a sub does double duty.

Nick
 
Buckeyefan 1

Buckeyefan 1

Audioholic Ninja
Mark,

Thanks for the review. I have a few burning questions.

How large was the listening room, and did you feel this sub pressurized the room properly with solid HT content? How did it compare to your existing sub(s)?

Do you feel the amplifier is ample in size compared to the massive power we see in similar mini subs from Velodyne, Sunfire, etc...? I was surprised they didn't put the 900/1000 watt BASH amp in this unit with such a massive driver. Are these other "competitor" mini sub amplifiers simply overrated?

Do you feel this sub is a step ahead of the Plus/2 as far as a "music only" sub? How far ahead is the Plus/2 compared to the SB12 as far as an HT sub is concerned? Is it night and day if both are outputting the same dB in a moderately sized room?

Thanks in advance!
 
Adam

Adam

Audioholic Jedi
Mark,

I'd like to second Buckeyefan's thanks and questions. My main interest in the SB12-Plus is for watching movies.

Thank you.

Adam
 
billy p

billy p

Audioholic Ninja
I'm

happy with that review! I don't know all the technical specs on the displayed charts but I think musically this sub is ideal for myself. The other huge factor is its small size and WAF because it won't be so obtrusive.:D
PS: already signed up with sonicboomaudio now the wait till they open up shop!!! Lastly the improvement in subs from asp300 to this will be HUGE!! :p
 
M

MarkS

Audioholics Staff Writer
Hello

Listening was done in a room approximately 20' D x 12' W x 9' H (~ 2160 ft^3)

Whether or not you'd judge this sub capable of properly pressurizing the room
with solid HT content really depends on how you define "proper". Within its
limits, what the sub does, it does very, very well.

If your HT sessions typically feature db spl levels such that, say, you can carry on a loud conversation with someone else in the room - and be heard - this sub will certainly do a proper job of things in a room the size used for the review's listening sessions. If, on the other hand, your HT sessions are typically run at dB spl levels such that you require a sub capable of cranking enough acoustic energy to cause seismic activity all over the nearest 3 counties, then this sub is not for you.

I have a small collection of subs residing in my house at the moment and each presents its own unique performance & feature set. Its difficult to compare this sub to any one of the others except, perhaps, the SVSound PB12-Plus/2. In listening to both, the new driver featured in the PB12-Plus is clearly an improved version of the driver it replaces - and sounds like it. Sonically speaking, the work SVSound put into upgrading what was already a solid, proven performer has paid off.

I'm not sure why SVSound chose to pack into the PB12-Plus the particular wattage amp they did. I'd say that's a question better addressed to them. I can say that though I haven't put the amp up on the bench and measured, I wouldn't be surprised to find SVSound conservatively estimated the wattage-out rating given the unit.

If I were in the market for a sub, had to abide by size constraints (for whatever reason) or aesthetic concerns and had settled on the PB12-Plus as the sub of choice, I would likely buy two of them. I'd recommend two subs, regardless of who made the sub, what type system, etc because my experience has been that regardless of how good you are at wringing the best out of a single unit, two will almost always best one, in terms of dealing
with, for example, the modal structure of the room. Of course, having
a few extra dB spl available is always nice, too. For more on the value of multiple subs, you might find this like informative:

http://www.harman.com/wp/pdf/multsubs.pdf

Best Regards,

Mark


Buckeyefan 1 said:
Mark,

Thanks for the review. I have a few burning questions.

How large was the listening room, and did you feel this sub pressurized the room properly with solid HT content? How did it compare to your existing sub(s)?

Do you feel the amplifier is ample in size compared to the massive power we see in similar mini subs from Velodyne, Sunfire, etc...? I was surprised they didn't put the 900/1000 watt BASH amp in this unit with such a massive driver. Are these other "competitor" mini sub amplifiers simply overrated?

Do you feel this sub is a step ahead of the Plus/2 as far as a "music only" sub? How far ahead is the Plus/2 compared to the SB12 as far as an HT sub is concerned? Is it night and day if both are outputting the same dB in a moderately sized room?

Thanks in advance!
 
Sheep

Sheep

Audioholic Warlord
Mark,

Thank you for that extra information :)

And, it's SB-12. :D

SheepStar
 
M

Manic Miner

Junior Audioholic
Thanks for the review and the measurements. I'm a bit disapointed that the Room Gain Control was neither mentioned nor measured, but other then that two thumbs up from me!
 
Adam

Adam

Audioholic Jedi
Mark,

Sorry if I missed it in your review, but would you please comment on the fit and finish of the exterior wood veneer? The pictures from SVS sure look nice, but I'd appreciate your opinion because you've seen one in person.

Thanks.

Adam
 
I

Ilkka

Audioholic
Good review although the measurements seem really weird.

They measured its maximum output in an anechoic chamber (means 4pi environment) at 2 meter distance. This equals with 4 m ground plane. Or with 2 m GP, but you have to add 6 dB.

And they got nearly 115 dB above 40 Hz? I'm sorry, but that is just impossible for a 12" with 425 W. Even at 2 m GP that would be some serious performance. There must be a some sort of error. In 4pi the yellow line would represent its max output much more closely (add 6 dB for GP).

Normally sealed 12" subs are capable of 105-110 dB in mid bass range (at 2m GP). These measurements show over 10 dB higher performance (118-121 dB)...? That would be more than PB12-Plus/2 and Ultra/2 are able to do at those frequencies.

I also echo ManicMiner's comment; I wish room gain compensation control would have been measured too.

 
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T

The Dukester

Audioholic Chief
MarkS said:
Hello

If I were in the market for a sub, had to abide by size constraints (for whatever reason) or aesthetic concerns and had settled on the PB12-Plus as the sub of choice, I would likely buy two of them. I'd recommend two subs, regardless of who made the sub, what type system, etc because my experience has been that regardless of how good you are at wringing the best out of a single unit, two will almost always best one, in terms of dealing
with, for example, the modal structure of the room. Of course, having
a few extra dB spl available is always nice, too. For more on the value of multiple subs, you might find this like informative:

http://www.harman.com/wp/pdf/multsubs.pdf

Best Regards,

Mark
Funny you should say this. I was looking into a deal on a used Plus/2 with the new drivers. I called SVS and was asking them questions about it as well as the possibility of using two of the SB12s. They recommended using the single unit hands down. I asked why and really did not get a good answer. They said that in SOME applications two actually did a better job, but you were almost always better off with one b/c of set up problems using two and that you could save money while getting the same db output by using one larger sub. :confused:
I suppose that like nearly all speaker evaluations, it's subjective. It just seems that there could be a more definitive answer (within reason) as to whether or not two are better than one:) After all, there may be some folks out there that think listening to music out of one speaker in mono is still superior to two in stereo:p
 
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