Subwoofer Driver: SI SQL-15... any experience?

highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
I think they said it was BB/BB grade... so not gonna be the best finishing look if I were to choose just sanding and staining. Even painting could be tricky. Don't really wanna Duratex, but that might be the option unless I go crazy and do a veneer. Only likely on the Sealed version... I don't think I would wanna try veneering a 10 cu.ft. box.
Someone posted photos of their stained/clearcoat boxes years ago, but I don't remember his screen name- looked pretty good, especially with the doubled baffle. If the plywood has any voids, you can fill them with something that has similar color to the surrounding plies, so it hides pretty well- I did that for the drawer boxes when I built my kitchen cabinets and finished them with poly.

If you're concerned with the veneer flopping around as you try to position it, landing on the glue and staying where you don't want it- I would avoid using contact cement for that reason. I wouldn't use anything else for laminate, but for single-ply wood veneer, I would use wood glue. If you haven't seen a reference to it, you can spread wood glue on both surfaces, let it become almost totally dry and use a clothes iron (steam setting is OFF) to soften the glue. You can also buy sheets for this that also use an iron, but are made of hot glue.

You could also use paper-backed veneer called NBL, which means 'No Black Line', referring to the line from the typical laminate's substrate. If you find laminate sheets with the grain that you like but it does have a black line, you could rout a small rabbet at the corners and inlay a complementary material, to hide the edges completely. You can then chamfer, round the corner or use a different profile. You could look at suppliers for luthier's materials and use the kind of binding that's applied to the corner where the top/back and sides meet on a guitar- they have many interesting types.


 
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ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Spartan
Someone posted photos of their stained/clearcoat boxes years ago, but I don't remember his screen name- looked pretty good, especially with the doubled baffle. If the plywood has any voids, you can fill them with something that has similar color to the surrounding plies, so it hides pretty well- I did that for the drawer boxes when I built my kitchen cabinets and finished them with poly.

If you're concerned with the veneer flopping around as you try to position it, landing on the glue and staying where you don't want it- I would avoid using contact cement for that reason. I wouldn't use anything else for laminate, but for single-ply wood veneer, I would use wood glue. If you haven't seen a reference to it, you can spread wood glue on both surfaces, let it become almost totally dry and use a clothes iron (steam setting is OFF) to soften the glue. You can also buy sheets for this that also use an iron, but are made of hot glue.

You could also use paper-backed veneer called NBL, which means 'No Black Line', referring to the line from the typical laminate's substrate. If you find laminate sheets with the grain that you like but it does have a black line, you could rout a small rabbet at the corners and inlay a complementary material, to hide the edges completely. You can then chamfer, round the corner or use a different profile. You could look at suppliers for luthier's materials and use the kind of binding that's applied to the corner where the top/back and sides meet on a guitar- they have many interesting types.


I was more thinking the cost of veneering such a large box. Let's face it, I've got Salk taste... but short on the skill and somebody else isn't footing the bill! :)

I have seen a video of a guy doing exactly what you described with wood glue, letting it dry and ironing it on. I've also watched some others show tricks for simple application techniques (including some 2-way and 4-way bookmatching).
Of course, going back to the Salk reference, I do want to learn how he does his Burst treatment around the corners of the boxes. I know (some of) the why of it (a person close to the operation said they didn't have a way to veneer roundovers... this may have changed). As to the technique, I presume it is no different than spraying dye or a paint to reach an opacity that covers up the fore-hinted seams where the veneer ended near the corners of the box.

@Swerd turned me on to Flexners book about finishing wood which has been super helpful. I know I have a journey ahead of my to practice those skills and get good at it. :)
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
I was more thinking the cost of veneering such a large box. Let's face it, I've got Salk taste... but short on the skill and somebody else isn't footing the bill! :)

I have seen a video of a guy doing exactly what you described with wood glue, letting it dry and ironing it on. I've also watched some others show tricks for simple application techniques (including some 2-way and 4-way bookmatching).
Of course, going back to the Salk reference, I do want to learn how he does his Burst treatment around the corners of the boxes. I know (some of) the why of it (a person close to the operation said they didn't have a way to veneer roundovers... this may have changed). As to the technique, I presume it is no different than spraying dye or a paint to reach an opacity that covers up the fore-hinted seams where the veneer ended near the corners of the box.

@Swerd turned me on to Flexners book about finishing wood which has been super helpful. I know I have a journey ahead of my to practice those skills and get good at it. :)
Spraying sunburst takes practice, a CNC setup that allows for extreme consistency and/or proper spray gun setup- not a lot of paint/stain comes out unless someone has done it for so long they just know how to do it. You could talk to someone who builds or refinishes guitars. You could wipe it on, too. A barrier coat of shellac would allow for correction in a way that can't be done on bare wood.
 
Mark E. Long

Mark E. Long

Senior Audioholic
Spraying sunburst takes practice, a CNC setup that allows for extreme consistency and/or proper spray gun setup- not a lot of paint/stain comes out unless someone has done it for so long they just know how to do it. You could talk to someone who builds or refinishes guitars. You could wipe it on, too. A barrier coat of shellac would allow for correction in a way that can't be done on bare wood.
There’s a guy on Instagram that shows how to do burst on guitars. I can’t find his page but it’s very informative and shows how many coats it takes to get the proper blend and look . From the looks it take very little paint coming out of his guns each pass it looks like a very time consuming process but the results are magnificent .if your on Instagram lookup jncolor .
 
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highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
I was more thinking the cost of veneering such a large box. Let's face it, I've got Salk taste... but short on the skill and somebody else isn't footing the bill! :)

I have seen a video of a guy doing exactly what you described with wood glue, letting it dry and ironing it on. I've also watched some others show tricks for simple application techniques (including some 2-way and 4-way bookmatching).
Of course, going back to the Salk reference, I do want to learn how he does his Burst treatment around the corners of the boxes. I know (some of) the why of it (a person close to the operation said they didn't have a way to veneer roundovers... this may have changed). As to the technique, I presume it is no different than spraying dye or a paint to reach an opacity that covers up the fore-hinted seams where the veneer ended near the corners of the box.

@Swerd turned me on to Flexners book about finishing wood which has been super helpful. I know I have a journey ahead of my to practice those skills and get good at it. :)
From MarkE Long-
"There’s a guy on Instagram that shows how to do burst on guitars. I can’t find his page but it’s very informative and shows how many coats it takes to get the proper blend and look . From the looks it take very little paint coming out of his guns each pass it looks like a very time consuming process but the results are magnificent .if your on Instagram lookup jncolor ."



Go to YouTube- if you watch all of the videos, we'll never hear from you again. I would recommend paying attention to the first couple of minutes (ignore the freaking annoying ads, if you can)- it's pretty easy to hear when someone is making it up as t hey go along, but some of the people who sound like a nimrod are good at whatever they're showing. If you can find high-end guitar manufacturers and their custom shop people, watch those. Fender CS builders have posted some good videos. Dan Erlewine (StewMac) has been building and repairing instruments for decades- you have seen his work on the Billy Gibbons/ZZ Top custom guitars & basses with the names inlaid in the fretboards in a strange script). Also, and I didn't know he worked on guitars, the link shows Jeff Jewitt, who has a reputation in the finishing world- I have one of his books and it was an excellent read. He covers a wide range of finishing materials and I bought it because I wanted to learn about French Polishing- the results were amazing.


The time required to spray is miniscule compared to the time needed for drying completely. DO NOT try to polish any finish that isn't dry or hasn't cured- it doesn't work and you might have to start over. However, if you decide to polish the finish, YouTube has plenty of videos for that, too. That's how I have learned to polish gelcoat on boats- the one thing they don't include is the fact that polishing boats is a brutal job, especially for someone who has two bad shoulders.

I used to absolutely hate finishing my projects- so much, I even avoided starting new ones. Once I learned some of the tricks, I enjoy it because it's the final stage and if the finish turns out well, it's gravy on the icing.
 
Mark E. Long

Mark E. Long

Senior Audioholic
From MarkE Long-
"There’s a guy on Instagram that shows how to do burst on guitars. I can’t find his page but it’s very informative and shows how many coats it takes to get the proper blend and look . From the looks it take very little paint coming out of his guns each pass it looks like a very time consuming process but the results are magnificent .if your on Instagram lookup jncolor ."



Go to YouTube- if you watch all of the videos, we'll never hear from you again. I would recommend paying attention to the first couple of minutes (ignore the freaking annoying ads, if you can)- it's pretty easy to hear when someone is making it up as t hey go along, but some of the people who sound like a nimrod are good at whatever they're showing. If you can find high-end guitar manufacturers and their custom shop people, watch those. Fender CS builders have posted some good videos. Dan Erlewine (StewMac) has been building and repairing instruments for decades- you have seen his work on the Billy Gibbons/ZZ Top custom guitars & basses with the names inlaid in the fretboards in a strange script). Also, and I didn't know he worked on guitars, the link shows Jeff Jewitt, who has a reputation in the finishing world- I have one of his books and it was an excellent read. He covers a wide range of finishing materials and I bought it because I wanted to learn about French Polishing- the results were amazing.


The time required to spray is miniscule compared to the time needed for drying completely. DO NOT try to polish any finish that isn't dry or hasn't cured- it doesn't work and you might have to start over. However, if you decide to polish the finish, YouTube has plenty of videos for that, too. That's how I have learned to polish gelcoat on boats- the one thing they don't include is the fact that polishing boats is a brutal job, especially for someone who has two bad shoulders.

I used to absolutely hate finishing my projects- so much, I even avoided starting new ones. Once I learned some of the tricks, I enjoy it because it's the final stage and if the finish turns out well, it's gravy on the icing.
Iam a cabinet maker and woodworker I hate finishing lol that being said it’s part of the game and there are tricks. The drying process is something most people get in to big of a hurry with it can make or break the project or as you say you end up starting over . I do Finnish gun stocks that require 32 coats of custom oil with drying time of a few days in between each coat and spray the final two coats on .
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
Iam a cabinet maker and woodworker I hate finishing lol that being said it’s part of the game and there are tricks. The drying process is something most people get in to big of a hurry with it can make or break the project or as you say you end up starting over . I do Finnish gun stocks that require 32 coats of custom oil with drying time of a few days in between each coat and spray the final two coats on .
I think part of the impatience, especially for weekend warriors, comes from watching people on TV who complete a project in a short time, complete with some kind of fancy finish. They NEVER talk about how long it takes and some just lose interest when they find that it won't be usable on that day. I can only imagine the questions and cursing when someone slaps a coat of paint over a knot in a piece of pine and they see bleed-through.

There's a bit of alchemy in some finishing materials, too. People need to experiment and learn- failure can be a good teacher, so test pieces on scrap wood are necessary.
 
Mark E. Long

Mark E. Long

Senior Audioholic
I think part of the impatience, especially for weekend warriors, comes from watching people on TV who complete a project in a short time, complete with some kind of fancy finish. They NEVER talk about how long it takes and some just lose interest when they find that it won't be usable on that day. I can only imagine the questions and cursing when someone slaps a coat of paint over a knot in a piece of pine and they see bleed-through.

There's a bit of alchemy in some finishing materials, too. People need to experiment and learn- failure can be a good teacher, so test pieces on scrap wood are necessary.
100% spot on I’ve learned to enjoy the hand rubbed oil’s semi gloss ones there forgiving and get great results . They definitely make these projects look easy on tv indeed that’s a problem. I’ve thought of building my own sub cabs but Iam not an designer by any means . I used to build small pieces of furniture for people and it’s amazing how many people ask if they can pick up the piece in a day or two lol !
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
100% spot on I’ve learned to enjoy the hand rubbed oil’s semi gloss ones there forgiving and get great results . They definitely make these projects look easy on tv indeed that’s a problem. I’ve thought of building my own sub cabs but Iam not an designer by any means . I used to build small pieces of furniture for people and it’s amazing how many people ask if they can pick up the piece in a day or two lol !
IMO, the beginning of this question should be stricken from the English language- " 'Well, can't you just' take a piece of wood, cut it and put some paint on it?". No, I can't. I could, but I won't.
 
Mark E. Long

Mark E. Long

Senior Audioholic
IMO, the beginning of this question should be stricken from the English language- " 'Well, can't you just' take a piece of wood, cut it and put some paint on it?". No, I can't. I could, but I won't.
I’ve reproduced Victorian fireplace mantles for people that have asked to have it done and installed in two weeks the answer is always a flat no . Most don’t realize the work envolved when they bulk it’s either go somewhere else or wait for the finished product there choice. There’s measuring and templates to make more measurements figuring the steps out to finish and assemble in there home and then the finishing that takes as much time as building. I take very few projects on anymore for many of those reasons you have mentioned .
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Spartan
For those that aren't trained woodworkers, the word of caution about finishing time is quite necessary. I think anybody that has ordered from Salk is fortunately familiar with the fact that the dyeing and finishing process is about a month in their shop. Perhaps it is more apropos to say that I acquired an appreciation for the process due to my experience with an order going through their shop! ;)

For myself, right now, as a lightly skilled hobbyist, I have assembled a good collection of the tools necessary, along with access to some specialty items if needed. I've already read through a couple books to help further my knowledge base and have a few more on the way. My goal is to be able to assemble some legit cabinets and learn to finish them to an above average level. (Which, frankly, is still a pretty low bar based on some of what I've seen.)
As a trained Musician and Professional Chef, I get that there is a discrepancy between a true craftsman and a worker-bot. Talent only takes you so far, too. Practice hones skill, and mastering techniques take time, attention to detail, and patience.
Then putting rubber to the road tests all of that in a completely different way. How you adapt to the minute circumstances and adjust for that "RCH" can make the difference between success and "meh...." ;)
 
Mark E. Long

Mark E. Long

Senior Audioholic
For those that aren't trained woodworkers, the word of caution about finishing time is quite necessary. I think anybody that has ordered from Salk is fortunately familiar with the fact that the dyeing and finishing process is about a month in their shop. Perhaps it is more apropos to say that I acquired an appreciation for the process due to my experience with an order going through their shop! ;)

For myself, right now, as a lightly skilled hobbyist, I have assembled a good collection of the tools necessary, along with access to some specialty items if needed. I've already read through a couple books to help further my knowledge base and have a few more on the way. My goal is to be able to assemble some legit cabinets and learn to finish them to an above average level. (Which, frankly, is still a pretty low bar based on some of what I've seen.)
As a trained Musician and Professional Chef, I get that there is a discrepancy between a true craftsman and a worker-bot. Talent only takes you so far, too. Practice hones skill, and mastering techniques take time, attention to detail, and patience.
Then putting rubber to the road tests all of that in a completely different way. How you adapt to the minute circumstances and adjust for that "RCH" can make the difference between success and "meh...." ;)
As someone who spent 12 years in a professional woodshop on a high level of production I can add that every thing you say is true . 3/4 of the battle with wood working is proper calibration of the tools you have table saws are a problem for most people to get right out of the box they will all cut but 90% don’t cut true most don’t know or know how to calabrate a saw or any tools like big saws , planers ,table shapers . Actually being the tune up guy in this shop was a cool job we had very close tolerances on production lathes we had 3 thousandths to play with over on diameters and boring holes on table saws it was 0 . We had our own drying kilns , sawmill and imported some really cool wood and expensive wood and we used some veneer on some jobs too most of our finishing was done by spray and them guys knew what they were doing but none of it was quick .
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
I’ve reproduced Victorian fireplace mantles for people that have asked to have it done and installed in two weeks the answer is always a flat no . Most don’t realize the work envolved when they bulk it’s either go somewhere else or wait for the finished product there choice. There’s measuring and templates to make more measurements figuring the steps out to finish and assemble in there home and then the finishing that takes as much time as building. I take very few projects on anymore for many of those reasons you have mentioned .
Then, there's that pesky habit of wood shrinking and expanding as the moisture content changes. Tell someone that it would need to be kiln dried in order to make the item quickly and that may change the appearance and that might be a no-go.

I have worked in AV for a long time and many people were fine with long delays, some not. Some people think a project or process can change instantly or have no understanding of what's involved, but they're paying, so they think it will happen instantly. I worked for an AV/network/control contractor in 2005 and one house had been pre-wired almost two years before I started working for them- we did a lot that year, but there was no way it would have been possible to finish our part because the other details needed to be done before we could install anything. I saw the builder's project manager more than a year after I left and when I asked if it had been completed, he said they were doing the punch list and that means initial work on the house & grounds had begun 5 years before.
 

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