Sub to compliment powered monitors - 600-700 dollar range.

[woensl.itis]

I'd go for the FV15 if I could get a good deal on it.

So now it's hands down between the Hsu Research VTF-15h, The PSA XV15, the Rythmik FV15, and I guess I should throw in the PSA XS30 because the price range has expanded.

Gonna take some thinking and research.

Thank you for all your advice thus far. More is ALWAYS appreciated.

 

[woensl.itis]

So after much debate, I think either the XV15 or VTF-15h are my options. I really want to be able to dish out that kinda cash for the FV15, but I don't think I can do it. Better save that money and put it towards nicer monitors.

So what do you guys think. End all answer. What is better for production in my crappy room? The VTF? or the XV15? The XV is cheaper and seems to perform just as well, if not better, than the VTF-15h. I could also pair the XV15 up later if I need to. The VTF has EQ controls which are probably much needed in my confined space.

What's the final word? I'm honestly torn.

 

[j_garcia]

Let me quote myself from earlier: XV15

 

[shadyJ]

Okay, big help thanks.

So is it possible that the best option for me is to get the VTF-15h?
Or maybe I should go with the XV15? It seems to perform better across the board.

If I had to choose between the two, I would go for the VTF15h. It will have more output above 30 hz and more configuration options. The Q control may be particularly useful to you so you can control room gain. Until you get a EQ for the sub, the only way for you to control frequency response is by either moving the sub or using whatever FR shaping the sub has. As far as I know the XV15 doesn't have any way to change its response, but the VTF15h has variable tuning and the Q control. But, like I said before, two subs will do a better job at hammering out a flat frequency response, so you still ought to consider two subs like VTF2s and an SPL meter over a single VTF15h or XV15 to insure that your response is flat. Be aware that if you get two subs, you lose their FR smoothing ability if you place them close to each other, you would have to place them at a distance from each other.

 

[woensl.itis]

So you definitely think that 2 VTF2's is preferable to 1 of the XV15 or VTF-15h?

 

[woensl.itis]

I'm actually leaning more towards the VTF-15h than dual VTF2's.
When I move, and make the studio, the room will be larger.
And there are other tricks I can do to flatten out the response right?
Will the output from the dual VTF2's match that of 1 VTF-15h? Will they dig as deep?
Or would it be better to go with 1 VTF-15h now and just pick another one up when i get the funds?

So should I make another thread about the monitors?

 

[shadyJ]

The in-room subwoofer frequency response can only be dealt with in three ways: moving the sub, equalizing it, or adding more subs. Equalizing it can remove peaks, but it can't shore up dips caused by cancellation. Moving the sub might shore up the cancellation null, or it could just cause another null somewhere else. Adding another sub can take care of the nulls, and if both subs are optimally placed, can flatten out the peaks and dips to a degree- with equalization, to a great degree.

It could be that a single sub can be placed in a position in your room where it will have a relatively good frequency response for your listening position, so you may not have to worry about cancellation too much. Like I said before though, you are going to need an SPL meter to be sure.

As for the VTF2s in particular, they can dig down to 20 hz. While two may not quite equal the loudness of a single VTF15h, they ought to get pretty close. If you are considering this, like I said before, ask Hsu about any kind of discount they are willing to offer for a double VTF2 purchase, I think they would be open to that seeing how they do offer discounts for purchases on dual VTF3s, VTF15hs, and ULS-15s. You might also just consider ordering a single one and seeing what it can do, it is not a weak sub itself and might do the trick for you and under budget. And if it doesn't, ask Hsu to reserve dual discount if you decide to order another within a certain amount of time.

As for opening another thread on monitors, yeah, go for it, this is the sub section, and a discussion on monitors would be more appropriate in the speakers section. In that vein, if you have a Guitar Center around you or a Sam Ash or whatever pro-audio store, go down there and see what they have.

 

[j_garcia]

Sure, VTF15h for the configuration. That is not to say the XV15 would not have done the job, nor any of the others, but it gives you plenty of options right off the bat. I do agree with that. I personally don't have an issue using placement and other methods to control the sound, but that can't always easily fix everything. I said XV15 because I didn't want to be spending more of your money If it were me today, it would be between XS30 and F15HP or duals of something in that arena, but for now the Empire is holding its own.

 

[woensl.itis]

Well, okay guys.

I'm definitely going with HSU on this one. Whether it's the VTF-15h or the VTF2's (mk4 right?).

So I'll be contacting them soon. I'll get back to you guys with the final decision. I'll follow up when I get the sub.

I just want to say thank you all SO MUCH.

You were all seriously a HUGE help. I heave learned so much from this thread, alone.

Wanna especially thank Steve, Shadyj, and Jer-Bear (that's you mr. garcia) for sticking with me through this one.

 

[shadyJ]

Sure, VTF15h for the configuration. That is not to say the XV15 would not have done the job, nor any of the others, but it gives you plenty of options right off the bat. I do agree with that. I personally don't have an issue using placement and other methods to control the sound, but that can't always easily fix everything. I said XV15 because I didn't want to be spending more of your money If it were me today, it would be between XS30 and F15HP or duals of something in that arena, but for now the Empire is holding its own.

What's interesting is comparing the data-bass.com max burst charts of the XV15 and the Epik Empire: from 16 hz to 50 hz they are nearly exactly the same! That's strange considering how different the designs are. It's a shame Epik is AWOL these days, The empire was one hell of a bargain at $900 shipped.

 

[j_garcia]

Yeah, the Empire's drivers and amp probably aren't as good as the XV15, but having the second driver brings it up to snuff. The output is ridiculous for the size.

 

[Chinaski]

FWIW after countless hours absorbing every single post on every AV forum known to man, I've just placed an order for the XV15. It will replace an a/d/s ms3 which does OK for music still (all but the sub 32Hz stuff) but gets overwhelmed in my > 6500 cu. ft. open great room. No doubt we sub buyers would rather get something that is overwhelming rather than underwhelming, and no doubt for output (as well as other features) the seriously considered FV15HP and new F25 will be that for just about any room. Does anyone really want to pay $100+ to ship back an underwhelming sub? So we tend to err on the side of caution. I say if you have great placement flexibility in your room (including nearfield placement), few WAF issues, and are a bang for the buck type, PSA's offerings are just too enticing. Can't tell you how many times I had the Rythmik sales cart loaded up with an FV15HP in it begging me to click my mouse.

And I'm 75% music/25% movies.

We're going to find out just how well the XV15 works in a nearfield placement (right up next to my overstuffed comfy chair). Tom V. said "In your room environment you could expect extension down to the 14-16hz range with clean output capabilities. If the subwoofer would be against one wall in your near-field scenario you can expect clean output capabilities of 115-124dB at the seats. This should give plenty of "headroom" to spare which is always a good thing of course. This way the subwoofer is always coasting. The bass will always have extremely low distortion and you'll have plenty of "reserve" if there is a sudden transient in the music or film that requires unusually loud output from the subwoofer."


Once I get this beast, and dial it in, I'll share my thoughts.

Edit: Wanted to mention I also have powered "monitors" - the Soundfield Audio Monitor 1s. They image so well I had to pull them from the loft office in my home and put 'em in the big room.

 

[woensl.itis]

Your post leaves me wondering...

Why aren't any of the Hsu Research subs that I am seriously considering on your list?

I am most likely going with the VTF-15h or dual VTF2 mk4's.

My system is 100% for music production.

 

[Chinaski]

Your post leaves me wondering...

Why aren't any of the Hsu Research subs that I am seriously considering on your list?

I am most likely going with the VTF-15h or dual VTF2 mk4's.

My system is 100% for music production.

I did also strongly consider the Hsu models, and in my mind they sat in the middle and I got to the point where it was Rythmik or PSA (I mean at some point you come up with reasons to reduce options or you'll never commit to just one). I did recommend a friend buy a Hsu sub, in 2012, before I knew of PSA. And he did get the VTF3-mk4 I believe. In my small brain I've convinced myself I'm getting a VTF-15H-level product in a different, perhaps not as nice, covering for a couple bucks less. I like the tweakability in the Rythmik and Hsu models, but color me lucky, or color me astute, I've not had issues integrating my older a/d/s ported sub (with nary the tweakability of Hsu or Rythmik) in a bunch of rooms, huge and medium sized. I also find that once I get something dialed in, I don't really want to mess with it, and this is just me, but just knowing there are things you can tweak can pull you into a tweakability coma. Anyone ever go into one of these, ever? Bueller? Anyone? And it's fun to play, and then you often end up right back at the original settings. Granted having those options to dial in a sub initially are a plus especially given you have restrictions on where you can place a sub in the room (tweakable options are never a bad thing but they're there to aid in dialing the sub in). Coupling my room, where I can put the sub just about anywhere, and my good dialing-in experience with an older, well-performing sub did not entice me to go with a new model that offered lots of tweakability.

Here's my thinking, you may need to put on your bang-for-the-buck hat on first to swallow this whole.....
If you're going to get into the home theater/audio subwoofer market these days you best come out firing on all cylinders (no pun intended) from the gitgo, else you can end up a short-lived blip in the annals of ID subwoofer sales history. To wit, a couple other ID sub companies have gone missing over the past year, very likeable, highly respected products, too.

Even though I hardly feel as if I'm taking any risks with PSA, I'm not averse to taking risks, and I'm also quite discerning, and critically demanding of any product I may buy. I'll be sure to share my experiences once I get the XV15.

I do believe any reputable ID sub maker offers great bang for the buck, and very likely anything you buy, over $600, from Hsu, PSA, or Rythmik, as long as you're not an output-whore or need to place a sub in a stadium size space, will satisfy 90% of the people in the market. Depends on knowing your needs and expectations, and getting manufacturers to tell you which products will satisfy you once you've clearly defined those needs for them. All the ID sub makers are really good at this, but PSA was head and shoulders above the others in making me comfortable with their product. Your experiences may vary!

 

[woensl.itis]

I'm mainly concerned with use for production. I will be changing the listening room quite a bit over the coming years. The ability to tune the sub will come in handy.

Most likely, I will be going with the VTF-15h.

I just wanted to make sure that it was not for performance reasons that you chose the XV15 over the Hsu.

And don't get me wrong, I'm not about to jump on you for having an opinion. i actually want the opinions. I have no beef with any manufacturer (except harmen, b/c of desire to monopolize and a certain d-bag harmen engineer I ran into in a best buy once).

 

[Chinaski]

And don't get me wrong, I'm not about to jump on you for having an opinion. i actually want the opinions.

Just sharing experience, amigo. ;o)
If it seemed I shilled here, my apologies. If the XV15 didn't exist I would've bought a VTF-15H. I'm sure you'll love yours. I hope I love mine...., I won't be shy if I don't.

 

[woensl.itis]

And your opinion is what I'm lookin for!!!!!!!!

Keep me updated!!! Thanks!!!

 

[ratm]

What's interesting is comparing the data-bass.com max burst charts of the XV15 and the Epik Empire: from 16 hz to 50 hz they are nearly exactly the same! That's strange considering how different the designs are. It's a shame Epik is AWOL these days, The empire was one hell of a bargain at $900 shipped.

Shame is an understatement. I searched for a 2nd Empire for months until I sold the one I had and went with a Captivator. WHOA...

 

[woensl.itis]

Shame is an understatement. I searched for a 2nd Empire for months until I sold the one I had and went with a Captivator. WHOA...

is ratm Rage Against The Machine?

 

[ratm]

is ratm Rage Against The Machine?

It sure is.