Struggling with Dolby Atmos and Yamaha 2080

[William Lemmerhirt]

Yeah, some of us absolutely LOVE ATMOS.

I like it. I Like it. I like it.

It’s been great for me. Especially when the sounds are in the room, like next to your head. It’s like the best 2ch stereo imaging, but everywhere. In fairness, not all soundtracks are like that. But the ones that are remind me that it was worth the investment.

 

[smelchionda]

Streaming services do use DD+ but some devices, like the Apple TV 4K, will output audio after converting to LPCM. Those devices will require more bandwidth than the ARC spec provides for multichannel signals.

Anyway, if the receiver here reports an Atmos/DD+ signal from the TV's apps, then Atmos metadata is present in the ARC signal. The 2080 does not support eARC. So, eARC Support should be turned OFF in the LG C1. Digital Sound Output should be set to Passthrough. Dolby signals will have Dolby Offset present and often require a volume bump compared to PCM signals.

Straight mode should be fine but Yamaha does recommend DSur mode for Dolby Atmos tracks with that unit. I'm a bit confused about the speaker layout and connected devices. While 5.4.4 was mentioned, I don't see any Presence Speakers or how they are configured in settings. Are they set as Height, Overhead or Dolby Enabled SP? Surround Speakers should be shown as SL and SR, not RL and RR when using five speakers at ear level instead of seven. I'd be interested in just how everything is connected and configured here.
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I changed the settings on the TV and now things are quite different. Background music is much more present and the display on the front of the unit still says Atmos DD+ so maybe its working as best it can.

With respect to eARC... looks like I should have bought the next version of this receiver... it has eARC

With respect to speaker layout, I do actually have my "rear" speakers connected as surround speakers. You are correct, you dont get rear speakers unless you also have surrounds set up. In my room I could not position them on the sides, and so my "Surrounds" are actually in the back.

 

[Trebdp83]

You won’t need eARC for streaming Dolby Atmos from the TV’s apps. ARC can handle the lossy Atmos/DD+ streams. But, when eARC support is ON in the TV and the receiver only supports ARC, the LG TVs will re encode the signal to fit and things can go south.

 

[ban25]

I changed the settings on the TV and now things are quite different. Background music is much more present and the display on the front of the unit still says Atmos DD+ so maybe its working as best it can.

Lossy Atmos (Atmos DD+) is what's used by all streaming services, including Netflix, MAX, Disney+, Tidal, etc. So you are good to go as you are matching the source. For lossless TrueHD Atmos, you need Blu-Ray.

 

[smelchionda]

I buy mine from Amazon. Then I rip them to mkv files using MakeMKV and transfer them to my 140TB home SAN, which runs Plex and Roon (and LMS, because why not). Each 4K rip is anywhere from 50 to 80 GB, depending on the bitrate of the title.

I play them using the Plex client on the NVIDIA Shield TV Pro (2019), which allows streaming of lossless TrueHD Atmos and Dolby Vision as well as DTS:X for the handful of 4K titles that use it such as the Harry Potter series.

It's essentially a Kaleidescape with vastly more capability.

That sounds like it would work but thats not what I am interested in doing. I attempted to go the HTPC route back in 2008. Built a do-all server to back up, rip and stream content to all devices in the house. It's a lot of work. I just want to pay a service to stream the content. Plus, that system works for movies, but doesn't work for mini series TV stuff, for example, Masters of the Air. I don't want to deal with buying, storing and managing media. I thought that the tech had reached a point where you could just stream and get good quality. Audio is almost there with Amazon HD, (Too bad the UI is terrible) but it looks like Video content isn't there yet.

 

[ban25]

That sounds like it would work but thats not what I am interested in doing. I attempted to go the HTPC route back in 2008. Built a do-all server to back up, rip and stream content to all devices in the house. It's a lot of work. I just want to pay a service to stream the content. Plus, that system works for movies, but doesn't work for mini series TV stuff, for example, Masters of the Air. I don't want to deal with buying, storing and managing media. I thought that the tech had reached a point where you could just stream and get good quality. Audio is almost there with Amazon HD, (Too bad the UI is terrible) but it looks like Video content isn't there yet.

If you want a turn-key solution, there is: https://www.kaleidescape.com/

 

[Trebdp83]

Say, @smelchionda , I was curious about the music setup. I am guessing you have the 6000N connected to the A2080 and use the front pre outs of it to the A-S2200’s Main In ports and switch between A and B speakers. Is that the case?

I was also curious if you have compared Amazon Music UHD using the A2080’s MusicCast app to the 6000N’s DTS Play-Fi app. Is the 6000N connected with a digital or analog cables? Apologies for being nosy, just curious.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

It’s been great for me. Especially when the sounds are in the room, like next to your head. It’s like the best 2ch stereo imaging, but everywhere. In fairness, not all soundtracks are like that. But the ones that are remind me that it was worth the investment.

Yep. Might not be worth it to some people. But ATMOS is worth every penny to some of us.

 

[TLS Guy]

Yep. Might not be worth it to some people. But ATMOS is worth every penny to some of us.

What is it you like about it so much?

I think the results are very variable. I have only one movie disc that really utilizes the technology to the full. Most audio discs and streams are upmixed two channel recordings.

I have two Atmos recordings from DGG. The one from Vienna in St.Stephen's cathedral is excellent. The other the mix is messed up.

Streaming is a problem because of the volume limitation by Dolby. That is absurd. In addition there is no way to stream lossless audio in Atmos at present.

But the real issue is that the mixess are variable. The BPO are the leaders in streaming Atmos, but it is a work in progress, and the Atmos mix is not always better then the two channel mix.

When it comes to movies very few really utilize the technology and put little program and power to the speakers other than the front three.

If this technology is going to be exploited to its full capability, then people will have to invest a lot more in their surrounds and powering.

I say this, as the only multichannel disc I have that really puts power to the rear speakers, critics panned as unplayable. Well it is not unplayable, but I can see why it would be on the vast majority of systems.

Personally I would not have invested in Atmos, if I did not have all seven very capable speakers and had plenty of spare amps handy and could build four good ceiling speakers for little money.

I don't think there is enough good program out there to really justify the expense. That includes surrounds and ceiling speakers. I could just use what I had, as putting them to use was as good a place to store them as any. I think for most, the money would be much better spent on the front two or three and a decent sub or two.
I think probably the majority of the rooms can not really benefit anyway.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

What is it you like about it so much?

ATMOS is just fun. Hearing sounds panning above me makes it very realistic and exciting.

Of course, not every movie or every scene has these. But there are plenty.

So ATMOS can be fun, realistic, and exciting. Very entertaining.

 

[lovinthehd]

ATMOS is just fun. Hearing sounds panning above me makes it very realistic and exciting.

Of course, not every movie or every scene has these. But there are plenty.

So ATMOS can be fun, realistic, and exciting. Very entertaining.

For music?

 

[TLS Guy]

ATMOS is just fun. Hearing sounds panning above me makes it very realistic and exciting.

Of course, not every movie or every scene has these. But there are plenty.

So ATMOS can be fun, realistic, and exciting. Very entertaining.

I will admit I don't watch many movies. But I only have one that really convincingly used the technology and that was Hacksaw Ridge.

For music the engineers are clearly still feeling their way.

The problem is that for music the mic techniques are far from settled. What I do notice is that any close miking tends to ruin the hole elusion.

The best Atmos concert I have heard was where the set up used the modified Decca Tree. However that must have been a real eyeful for the audience and they only used it once as far as I can tell. I can tell the trend is towards improvement, but the these are early days. The better mixes do give much better localization of instruments and improved the sound stage. As one should expect hall ambience is better preserved and more realistic. However, when all is said and done, it is only marginally better than the loss less two channel audio stream up mixed. I have to say that two channel upmixed by Dolby is an improvement over two channel in terms of preserving the venues acoustic. However regular two channel stereo is still very, very good and sets a high bar.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

For music?

For me, the music that benefits the most is electronic music. YELLO, and Booka Shade are two great examples. Been awhile so I don’t have any tracks etc, but there are sounds mixed in there that sound like they’re right next to you. One of them by YELLO I do remember thinking I wanted to wipe my neck off, as I was tricked into thinking there was water dripping down my neck. I think infected mushroom should do an Atmos mix. As a musician, I find regular music doesn’t quite benefit as much.
For movies, IME it’s more of the same. There are some sounds that are IN the room and go right past you or even seem to go through you. Again, since I haven’t used my system for any QT lately I’d have to look into some notes.
As mentioned, definitely not all movies use Atmos to good effect. But the ones that do…damn it’s good.

 

[isolar8001]

If all Atmos was done like this....Atmos would be all that its hyped to be.
Unfortunately, this is a rare bird....a fantastic rare bird.
I actually hook my Atmos speakers back up when I play this...otherwise, I don't care for Atmos steering.
(I have that YELLO offering also...this blows that away)

Kraftwerk: 3-D The Catalogue Blu-ray (DigiPack)

Kraftwerk: 3-D The Catalogue Blu-ray Release Date May 26, 2017 (Abridged). Blu-ray reviews, news, specs, ratings, screenshots. Cheap Blu-ray movies and deals.

www.blu-ray.com

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I will admit I don't watch many movies. But I only have one that really convincingly used the technology and that was Hacksaw Ridge.

For music the engineers are clearly still feeling their way.

The problem is that for music the mic techniques are far from settled. What I do notice is that any close miking tends to ruin the hole elusion.

The best Atmos concert I have heard was where the set up used the modified Decca Tree. However that must have been a real eyeful for the audience and they only used it once as far as I can tell. I can tell the trend is towards improvement, but the these are early days. The better mixes do give much better localization of instruments and improved the sound stage. As one should expect hall ambience is better preserved and more realistic. However, when all is said and done, it is only marginally better than the loss less two channel audio stream up mixed. I have to say that two channel upmixed by Dolby is an improvement over two channel in terms of preserving the venues acoustic. However regular two channel stereo is still very, very good and sets a high bar.

I have never seen any music-ATMOS. Only seen 100% movies-ATMOS.

Hacksaw Ridge has very good ATMOS, but not the best. The idea is to give a good movie like Hacksaw Ridge and even more fun/entertaining experience. Even more fun than TrueHD/DTS-HD.

1. Being inside a tornado isn’t real, but it’s cool when they show you how it is inside the tornado and hearing not just sound going round and round, but sound pulling toward the sky.

2. Inside the house, if a tornado or hard rain or aircraft is overhead, you don’t just hear sound around you, but sound above.

Just 2 examples of having a little more fun. TrueHD can’t do the same.

 

[isolar8001]

I have never seen any music-ATMOS. Only seen 100% movies-ATMOS.

Hacksaw Ridge has very good ATMOS, but not the best. The idea is to give a good movie like Hacksaw Ridge and even more fun/entertaining experience. Even more fun than TrueHD/DTS-HD.

I've got 80tb of best quality movies and shows played to perfection through a Dune HD player.....very few have Atmos worth getting excited over.
My room is small...Atmos effects get channelled to the rear surrounds mainly.
Works fine for me. Fine enough that I don't care to fool with the Atmos speakers anymore.
Atmos 5.1 with virtual surrounds activated gives a very nice effect.
I swear some of these audio mixers are either tone deaf or all the way deaf, either way they are not very good at their jobs.

I would rather the mixers spent more time focusing on the actual sound rather than bouncing sound effects around the room. That gets real old real fast...unless you like that sort of thing as many obviously do.

 

[Trebdp83]

If all Atmos was done like this....Atmos would be all that its hyped to be.
Unfortunately, this is a rare bird....a fantastic rare bird.
I actually hook my Atmos speakers back up when I play this...otherwise, I don't care for Atmos steering.
(I have that YELLO offering also...this blows that away)

Kraftwerk: 3-D The Catalogue Blu-ray (DigiPack)

Kraftwerk: 3-D The Catalogue Blu-ray Release Date May 26, 2017 (Abridged). Blu-ray reviews, news, specs, ratings, screenshots. Cheap Blu-ray movies and deals.

www.blu-ray.com

Nice recommend! Had a listen to some of it from Apple Music's lossy Dolby Atmos version. It still sounds amazing to me. I like "Die Roboter/The Robots." I'll see if I can score the disc cheaply at some point. Another album I enjoy is Kx5. Have a listen to it with Molly and "Escape." Apologies to @smelchionda for the continued derailing of the thread. This one has gone far off the tracks.

 

[isolar8001]

Nice recommend! Had a listen to some of it from Apple Music's lossy Dolby Atmos version. It still sounds amazing to me. I like "Die Roboter/The Robots." I'll see if I can score the disc cheaply at some point. Another album I enjoy is Kx5. Have a listen to it with Molly and "Escape." Apologies to @smelchionda for the continued derailing of the thread. This one has gone far off the tracks.

Welcome.
I've been using Kraftwerk as demo material since the 70's.
It's just so pure.

 

[Trebdp83]

For those with LG TVs and a Tidal subscription, “Kraftwerk: 3-D The Catalogue” is available in Dolby Atmos from the LG Tidal app. Though, it does need a considerable volume bump compared to the Apple Music Dolby Atmos version on the Apple TV 4K.

 

[isolar8001]

For those with LG TVs and a Tidal subscription, “Kraftwerk: 3-D The Catalogue” is available in Dolby Atmos from the LG Tidal app. Though, it does need a considerable volume bump compared to the Apple Music Dolby Atmos version on the Apple TV 4K.

I have the Bluray files and all versions of the audio files.
You are right, the one version of audio only files need considerable volume boost.
(I dont keep track of where they are sourced from, I will have to check later)

The Bluray volume isn't gimped, its nice and loud....wish Dolby wouldn't suggest those volume decreases....its annoying, unnecessary and not everyone does it.

I just watched the latest episode of "Masters Of The Air" in Atmos (5.1 Atmos for me)
Same volume drop issue there...actually had to go to minus 15 on my volume control.
Halo in Atmos is nice and loud...there just isn't any standard.