Starting from scratch... (recommendations)

[Push]

Hopefully the dealer has both the Paradigm Premiers and Founder 80F and 100F. Founder bookshelves with a sub would sound pretty good too but the 100F could be fine without a sub for music. Please let us know your opinions afterwards.

They have all 3 in stock. The salesman specifically mentioned them.

 

[Push]

Which cartridge on the Planar 3? Remember that except for the carbon Rega carts don't have replaceable styli. You would have to replace the entire cartridge. That said I'm happy with my Planar 3 with a carbon cart and you can even upgrade to an elliptical stylus upgrade designed by Audio Technica from LP Gear. And Rega tables don't have a VTA adjustment if you want to change carts. Food for thought.

It says its the Elys cartridge. But it still hasn't shipped yet after several days. I'll be calling them to find out what the delay is. From the couple people I chatted with today, I'm told that Rega tables are next to impossible to get, so I wonder if I've been placed on a backorder and not told.

 

[Push]

In so far as amplification, if it were me I'd be looking at integrated ones. I know you mentioned tubes so for the $$ I'm partial to Rogue.....

Integrated Amplifiers

I've owned several of their products over the years and have been completely satisfied. I admit I'm biased, the owner is a personal friend.

One speaker thought I had passed on to someone else that's worth a look, KLH model 5

KLH Floor standing speakers | Iconic Model Five

The KLH Kendall Floor standing Speakers feature cutting-edge audio technology with high-performance optimal sound quality. Iconic Model Five

klhaudio.com

The closest Rogue dealer is 14 hrs drive for me. But I did call him and he suggested three different amps:

Cronus Magnum III - They have a used one, in guaranteed perfect condition for $2000 Cdn
Fezz Audio Titania
Jadis Orchestra

I haven't had time to look into any of them.

I am checking the used market, but I'm in a fairly remote area of Western Canada, so the used market mostly consists of soundbars and really cheap stuff. Audiophile or even mid-line stuff is rare. That said, I'm going to keep looking.

And it was me that you suggested the KLHs to, and I thought I'd responded but perhaps not. I don't have the physical space for the width of those speakers. I'm looking 10 to 11 inches in width, MAYBE can squeeze 12, but I'm competing with a french door and a heating vent on the other side.

 

[lovinthehd]

Just what do you expect of an amp "audition" or comparison? Same speakers/same room, level matched, quick switching, blind or ?

 

[Push]

Just what do you expect of an amp "audition" or comparison? Same speakers/same room, level matched, quick switching, blind or ?

Not much, to be honest I remember that things never sound the same between different rooms. But if there is anything glaringly obvious, like an overly shrill mid range which I am very sensitive to, or an obvious amp/speaker mismatch, it may come out there. The amps and speakers are all in the same room, and one would hope the staff has played with them enough that they have done a reasonable job tuning as much as they can. Look and feel will play some part in my decision. My room is comfortable and has been designed with my tastes. I expect my equipment to somewhat fit in.

Mostly this is just to meet one another and develop a relationship. In my life, I tend to find a shop and sales guy that I'm comfortable with and stay there for life, no matter what I may be purchasing. I'll know within a few minutes whether the guy will get my money or not.

 

[lovinthehd]

Not much, to be honest I remember that things never sound the same between different rooms. But if there is anything glaringly obvious, like an overly shrill mid range which I am very sensitive to, or an obvious amp/speaker mismatch, it may come out there. The amps and speakers are all in the same room, and one would hope the staff has played with them enough that they have done a reasonable job tuning as much as they can. Look and feel will play some part in my decision. My room is comfortable and has been designed with my tastes. I expect my equipment to somewhat fit in.

Mostly this is just to meet one another and develop a relationship. In my life, I tend to find a shop and sales guy that I'm comfortable with and stay there for life, no matter what I may be purchasing. I'll know within a few minutes whether the guy will get my money or not.

Overly shrill midrange due to what, tho? Tuning in what respect and why would you trust sales people to setup anything in a technical manner particularly? You just like sales people particularly or their "presentations" Sounds kinda nutty to me.

 

[Push]

Overly shrill midrange due to what, tho? Tuning in what respect and why would you trust sales people to setup anything in a technical manner particularly? You just like sales people particularly or their "presentations" Sounds kinda nutty to me.

The guy has been at the same shop for decades. I'm guessing he's learned one or two things.

I wouldn't call developing a relationship with a salesman nutty. Its smart. If someone in a shop likes you and you have a rapport with them, I guarantee it will save you money year after year. Better service, better prices. That holds true no matter where you shop or what you shop for. Maybe it does sound nutty in this online shopping world, but I'm an old guy and still prefer to do things the old fashioned way.

 

[Mikado463]

The guy has been at the same shop for decades. I'm guessing he's learned one or two things.

I wouldn't call developing a relationship with a salesman nutty. Its smart. If someone in a shop likes you and you have a rapport with them, I guarantee it will save you money year after year. Better service, better prices. That holds true no matter where you shop or what you shop for. Maybe it does sound nutty in this online shopping world, but I'm an old guy and still prefer to do things the old fashioned way.

understand completely and to those that don't, you've yet to experience the right dealer. Regardless, one must keep his/her objectives focused

 

[Push]

The Rega Brio and the Yamaha A-S801 are on my short list for power. While my intention of building this system was strictly for listening to vinyl, my family reminded me that I frequently change my mind. Therefore I need to consider ways to stream Spotify or Tidal to my system. I'm told the Yamaha unit has a very good DAC built in, and Yamaha has a couple options for WiFi streaming. But the Rega Brio only has analog inputs, and an online search reveals only discontinued devices and many message threads from about 5 years ago. So if I decide on the Brio, is there a decent way to stream to it?

 

[ski2xblack]

I think it makes sense to KISS, keep the receiver/integrated choice to more practical considerations. Does it possess the requisite power for the specific speakers you've chosen with your particular circumstances/room/listening level? Does it have the analog/phono/digital/streaming connectivity to accommodate your use now and possibly in the future? Does it have your preferred degree of tuneability/eq/bass management?

Speaker choice will dictate power requirements, and while your small room greatly mitigates power concerns to almost being a non-issue, don't put the cart before the horse. Choose the speakers first. This is by far your most important decision.

You know what sources you need to accommodate. My own sense of parsimony steers me to a one box solution, but to each his own.

"Tuneability" is an area that Stereo kit is sorely lacking in general. Typically no bass management and fairly useless treble and bass controls, if even those on some kit. Now, none of that may be of any practical concern for you; well sorted speakers won't need eq/tweaking, and if you have no plans for a sub, it opens your options.

But that doesn't change the nature of our hearing, that at lower volumes we are far less sensitive to extreme low and high frequencies. Loudness compensation eq is ubiquitous in AVR land, but extremely rare in stereo kit. The Yamaha you're considering has it, but the Brio does not. AVRs have it ("dynamicEQ", "YPAOvolume").

Only you can decide what sort of features and flexibility will suit your particular needs. I wouldn't rule out valid options (such as an AVR) in lieu of pricey but austere kit your friend sells.

Also, as an aside, I would throw any tube amp type into the "tuneability" category, although any audible differences, if they in fact exist, are fixed and non-defeatable. Sound processing should take place in the processor, not the amp. So the Rogue or any other expensive tube amp is a potentially wasteful digression from the pursuit of music, and not advisable unless you go all the way down that rabbit hole, learn about it, and build it yourself.

I suspect your friend can still probably accommodate a more practical, "music first" approach to gear selection, although he may get a lower spiff.

 

[Push]

I finally got confirmation that my Planar 3 has been shipped. Hooray!

And primarily due to aesthetics, I'd decided on the Rega Brio. However it does not have a sub out connection. I did buy a Polk SW111 at a pawn shop for 50 bucks to mate with little Paradigms while I make up my mind on mains. Couple of questions:
1) I'm told not to run the speaker hookups from the Brio to the sub, and then from sub to the mains. Since the Polk is not an expensive sub, it would likely not be as transparent as one would wish. I can see this.

2) I'm told to simply T off the Brio speaker outputs, run one set of speaker wires to the mains, and one set to the subs high level inputs. I've never done anything like this, so am I getting proper advice? I do recognize that sending full range to the mains makes for a bit of a tuning issue, but I'm confident I can take care of it, at least acceptably until I finally make up my mind about mains.

3) I considered the Elex-R, because it has pre-outs, but I can't see any high or low pass filter settings, so I'm guessing it would still be full range everywhere. So that doesn't seem to buy me much.

Thanks!

 

[SithZedi]

I finally got confirmation that my Planar 3 has been shipped. Hooray!

And primarily due to aesthetics, I'd decided on the Rega Brio. However it does not have a sub out connection. I did buy a Polk SW111 at a pawn shop for 50 bucks to mate with little Paradigms while I make up my mind on mains. Couple of questions:
1) I'm told not to run the speaker hookups from the Brio to the sub, and then from sub to the mains. Since the Polk is not an expensive sub, it would likely not be as transparent as one would wish. I can see this.

2) I'm told to simply T off the Brio speaker outputs, run one set of speaker wires to the mains, and one set to the subs high level inputs. I've never done anything like this, so am I getting proper advice? I do recognize that sending full range to the mains makes for a bit of a tuning issue, but I'm confident I can take care of it, at least acceptably until I finally make up my mind about mains.

3) I considered the Elex-R, because it has pre-outs, but I can't see any high or low pass filter settings, so I'm guessing it would still be full range everywhere. So that doesn't seem to buy me much.

Thanks!

Congrats on the the Planar.
On a general note, regarding speaker auditioning/testing, it's been sad to have watched the decline of dealer showrooms over the last 10 -20 years. We used to have many independent dealers in our area and even a couple of Best Buys that had decent showrooms but even they seem to be in wind down mode.

Have you tried (or has anyone) tried the speaker "Virtual Audio Demo" testing option on Crutchfield's website?
I tried it myself recently but I do not have a serious pair of headphones so it was rather pointless.

 

[ski2xblack]

1) I'm told not to run the speaker hookups from the Brio to the sub, and then from sub to the mains. Since the Polk is not an expensive sub, it would likely not be as transparent as one would wish. I can see this.

2) I'm told to simply T off the Brio speaker outputs, run one set of speaker wires to the mains, and one set to the subs high level inputs. I've never done anything like this, so am I getting proper advice

That's fine (#2).

Cheap subs typically have nothing between the speaker level inputs and outputs (making it just another parallel connection, equivalent to your #2), or if they do it's a single cap to effect a hpf with 6db/octave roll off. You'll have to determine which is the case with your particular sub, and which way makes the most sense to hook it up. Even if you do route it through the sub's high level inputs/outputs, it shouldn't audibly degrade the signal. But it's not necessary that you do it that way.

 

[Push]

That's fine (#2).

Cheap subs typically have nothing between the speaker level inputs and outputs (making it just another parallel connection, equivalent to your #2), or if they do it's a single cap to effect a hpf with 6db/octave roll off. You'll have to determine which is the case with your particular sub, and which way makes the most sense to hook it up. Even if you do route it through the sub's high level inputs/outputs, it shouldn't audibly degrade the signal. But it's not necessary that you do it that way.

Perfect, thanks! T-ing it off the Brio makes my hookup easier, so I'll just run that route. I hate to spend an extra thousand bucks on more amplifier when I don't even know if I'll be using a sub in the future.

 

[sterling shoote]

OP, I'm not certain of the status of your quest but if you are still in the market for amplification. I would suggest a Marantz NR1200 2.1 Receiver to be used for its preamp/HDMI DSD DAC function, connecting it to a stereo power amp to power mains. The Marantz has an awesome MM phono stage and its HDMI input will permit connection of a UBP Player to enjoy stereo SACDs. Other features, like a low pass filter to sub out and Airplay make the $700 Marantz a great value in preamp role, since the unit is black as coal quiet. This unit along with a Marantz stereo power amp is less than $2000.

 

[highfigh]

Overly shrill midrange due to what, tho? Tuning in what respect and why would you trust sales people to setup anything in a technical manner particularly? You just like sales people particularly or their "presentations" Sounds kinda nutty to me.

Do you think it's impossible that a salesperson might actually know how to set up a system? I'm not going to say that all can because I have worked with many who had absolutely no idea how and have talked to many since I worked in the stereo store who were similar, or worse but some have a real interest in setting up systems so they sound best and are easy to operate.

 

[highfigh]

The Rega Brio and the Yamaha A-S801 are on my short list for power. While my intention of building this system was strictly for listening to vinyl, my family reminded me that I frequently change my mind. Therefore I need to consider ways to stream Spotify or Tidal to my system. I'm told the Yamaha unit has a very good DAC built in, and Yamaha has a couple options for WiFi streaming. But the Rega Brio only has analog inputs, and an online search reveals only discontinued devices and many message threads from about 5 years ago. So if I decide on the Brio, is there a decent way to stream to it?

One think I would warn about- if anyone selling equipment says ANYTHING about what you should expect to hear, shut them down IMMEDIATELY! That's called 'conditioning' and severely biases the demonstration. Salespeople who receive sales training are told to do that because it's effective and IMO, it's unethical. The potential buyer needs to come to their own conclusions, not be influenced by what they're told.

 

[lovinthehd]

Do you think it's impossible that a salesperson might actually know how to set up a system? I'm not going to say that all can because I have worked with many who had absolutely no idea how and have talked to many since I worked in the stereo store who were similar, or worse but some have a real interest in setting up systems so they sound best and are easy to operate.

I just don't think the odds are very good....especially if they're describing amps that way....

 

[highfigh]

I just don't think the odds are very good....especially if they're describing amps that way....

It's hard to find people who won't BS their way to their commission check- I hated it in '78 when I started and I hate it more now.

 

[Push]

Its been a busy few weeks for me up here in the frozen north, and I haven't had the chance to post any updates. Due to time, and two massive snowstorms that knocked down my 30x60 shop, I never did make it into the city to audition anything at all, but in the meantime, my Planar 3 finally made it into my hands. It came with the Exact cartridge, versus the Elys, and while I haven't had a pile of time to just sit and listen, my initial take is very favourable, although the only thing I have to compare against is my cheap AudioTechnica.

The AudioTechnica turntable got very muddled as music started to get involved. The Rega Planar 3 keeps the instruments distinct and accurate, without sounding clinical. I hate the 50 cent words that reviewers use, but MUSICAL just keeps popping into my head. Its like listening to the band live in your listening area, but without all the outside noise.

Since the outfit in Vancouver treated me well, including sending me a Rega preamp with the Planar 3 to borrow until I found the amp I wanted, I pulled the trigger on a Rega Brio two days ago. Its supposed to be in my grubby hands tomorrow and hopefully I'll have a quiet weekend to actually sit down and listen.