Starke Sound Fiera4 4CH Amplifier Does It Meet Power Spec?

[buckchester]

Thanks for the preview, Matthew. I always enjoy reading your stuff.

I would like to point out though, for anyone considering buying an amp fr this company, I would reconsider. They are untrustworthy IMO. Read through this thread to find out more.

Starke Sound AD4.320 Review (Multichannel Amplifier)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Starke Sound AD4.320 four channel amplifier. It was kindly purchased by a member new and drop shipped to me. It costs US $1,499 but they have had sales with prices as low as US $900. The Ad4.320 looks a bit industrial and is quite heavy for a...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[ryanosaur]

Thanks for the preview, Matthew. I always enjoy reading your stuff.

I would like to point out though, for anyone considering buying an amp fr this company, I would reconsider. They are untrustworthy IMO. Read through this thread to find out more.

Starke Sound AD4.320 Review (Multichannel Amplifier)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Starke Sound AD4.320 four channel amplifier. It was kindly purchased by a member new and drop shipped to me. It costs US $1,499 but they have had sales with prices as low as US $900. The Ad4.320 looks a bit industrial and is quite heavy for a...

www.audiosciencereview.com

It is well known that their first offering had problems and was pulled from the market. Categorically saying they are untrustworthy is a little extreme.
While I would urge caution, always for any consumer, I wouldn't go so far as to urge avoidance.

If you have a case to make from personal experience, please share.
I do for people thinking about buying Emotiva because they couldn't answer basic questions about their Amp modules when I was shopping and about to spend close to $4000 with them.

 

[buckchester]

It is well known that their first offering had problems and was pulled from the market. Categorically saying they are untrustworthy is a little extreme.
While I would urge caution, always for any consumer, I wouldn't go so far as to urge avoidance.

If you have a case to make from personal experience, please share.
I do for people thinking about buying Emotiva because they couldn't answer basic questions about their Amp modules when I was shopping and about to spend close to $4000 with them.

Really? As far as I knew, he tested two units, neither of which came close to spec and the company provided no explanation other than trying to attack his credibility. Seems untrustworthy to me.

 

[ryanosaur]

Really? As far as I knew, he tested two units, neither of which came close to spec and the company provided no explanation other than trying to attack his credibility. Seems untrustworthy to me.

Don't misunderstand, please. I'm over at ASR, too. I'm not trying to defend Starke. I have no skin in this game.

We do get people come here and trash a manufacturer from time to time. Pointing to a 21 page review thread is a poor way to discuss what you want to share. Since I read some of those threads, I know half of the usual back and forth, too.

Starke got embarrassed pretty hard. They pulled that product.

Can a company change? Who gets to decide if they have redeemed themselves. While this is clearly not a SOTA Amp, it is as good an effort as other product on the market in a budget category. Perhaps Amir will get one to review soon-ish and we can compare reviews. That would be even better!

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

...The Hypex and Purifi stuff clearly measure a lot better. They Are SOTA.

I hope I read that correctly and I guess you meant "SOTA" = State Of The Art?

 

[buckchester]

Don't misunderstand, please. I'm over at ASR, too. I'm not trying to defend Starke. I have no skin in this game.

We do get people come here and trash a manufacturer from time to time. Pointing to a 21 page review thread is a poor way to discuss what you want to share. Since I read some of those threads, I know half of the usual back and forth, too.

Starke got embarrassed pretty hard. They pulled that product.

Can a company change? Who gets to decide if they have redeemed themselves. While this is clearly not a SOTA Amp, it is as good an effort as other product on the market in a budget category. Perhaps Amir will get one to review soon-ish and we can compare reviews. That would be even better!

Hey man, I'm just trying to warn people of their track record. Buying an amp is a lot of money for some people. You needn't make things so personal.

 

[ryanosaur]

You needn't make things so personal.

Because I challenged you to support your recommendation to avoid the company... all because you didn't like the way they responded to Amir over at AVS?
All I did was ask you to share why it was so important to you, to share a cogent argument to substantiate your position.
I'm encouraging you to say something meaningful rather than you just dropping a link to a 21 page thread and tell people to walk away.

If you think your work here is done, cool. Have a great day.

 

[PENG]

Because I challenged you to support your recommendation to avoid the company... all because you didn't like the way they responded to Amir over at AVS?
All I did was ask you to share why it was so important to you, to share a cogent argument to substantiate your position.
I'm encouraging you to say something meaningful rather than you just dropping a link to a 21 page thread and tell people to walk away.

If you think your work here is done, cool. Have a great day.

In fairness though, how many power amps you know of that measured 124 to 126 W 4 ohms and about 70 W 8 ohms at about 1% THD versus advertised specs of:

OUTPUT POWER:
In 4-channel mode: 225 wpc @ 8 Ohms
320 wpc @ 4 Ohms
In 2-channel mode: 430 wpc @ 4 Ohms (Balanced Mode)
650 wpc @ 2 Ohms (Balanced Mode

That's less than 1/3 of the manufacturer's specified output specifications!!

So while Starke should be allowed to right their wrong, at this moment they don't have a good track record or credibility. They need to, and I hope they can earn it back. The Feira4 Matthew just reviewed, appears to be a good start as it at least roughly met the specified outputs into 8/4 ohms 1% THD.

 

[jeffca]

For what it is (an amp for your surround channels), this is just fine. Also, having an amp that is just 100 Watts/channel is the right configuration.

Most surround content has very little content above 5kHz. Surround music, though certainly can depending upon the mix. Given the predominance of front and center speakers for sound staging, I'm doubtful that this amp would sound worse than other, better amps that cost more than this for surround channel usage.

That being said, I'm not so sure I'd use this for any other purpose. Having seen what the Purifi amps can do for a bit more cash, I'd use them on the main channels.

This all being said, I'm using a Parasound A-23 for my left & right mains and Emotiva Stealth PA-1 amps for the center and surrounds.

The old A-23 is a pretty nice amp.

I was surprised at how good the ICE powered PA-1's sounded. They were $300. Quiet, powerful and very low in distortion. It's a damn shame they were discontinued.

I expected that the middle channel, being powered by a class D amp might sound different. After adjusting the gain, it doesn't. Also, after listening to superbly recording surround music, I couldn't find any discrepancies in the channels regardless of their amps and classes. I have a 5.2 system with KEF LS50's.

I'm not saying that replacing my amps with Purifi monos or Benchmark AHB-2's won't improve the sound quality... I'm not sure whether the improvement will be as gigantic as most receivers swoon.

Unlike most reviewers, I have a good understanding of audio science and human hearing. Human's hearing is neither infinite or incredible compared to other animals.

The majority of audio reviewers are dimwits.

 

[ryanosaur]

In fairness though, how many power amps you know of that measured 124 to 126 W 4 ohms and about 70 W 8 ohms at about 1% THD versus advertised specs of:

OUTPUT POWER:
In 4-channel mode: 225 wpc @ 8 Ohms
320 wpc @ 4 Ohms
In 2-channel mode: 430 wpc @ 4 Ohms (Balanced Mode)
650 wpc @ 2 Ohms (Balanced Mode

That's less than 1/3 of the manufacturer's specified output specifications!!

So while Starke should be allowed to right their wrong, at this moment they don't have a good track record or credibility. They need to, and I hope they can earn it back. The Feira4 Matthew just reviewed, appears to be a good start as it at least roughly met the specified outputs into 8/4 ohms 1% THD.

Totally agree. I mentioned their false start on amps. They do, absolutely, have egg on their face.
The Amp in question today is at least workable, and seemingly passable in daily use. That's an improvement to what came before.
It's not something I would buy, myself, but it poses as an interesting possible step in the direction many support, which is workable and affordable Class D Amps.

More pertinent is how they, as a company, behave going forward. I don't think they would likely survive another mishap like the previous one. Especially if it meant pulling a production model off the market.

I do hope we get to see an additional review from Amir to compare/contrast. Judging by Poes' review, I would almost still expect a headless panther, but i'm more interested in just seeing how Amir's numbers come out.

Either way, It's fair to warn a consumer to beware based on that one mishap. I think it's wholly different to advise absolutely to not purchase from the company at all without some sort of argument or rationale to support that claim.

 

[PENG]

Totally agree. I mentioned their false start on amps. They do, absolutely, have egg on their face.
The Amp in question today is at least workable, and seemingly passable in daily use. That's an improvement to what came before.
It's not something I would buy, myself, but it poses as an interesting possible step in the direction many support, which is workable and affordable Class D Amps.

More pertinent is how they, as a company, behave going forward. I don't think they would likely survive another mishap like the previous one. Especially if it meant pulling a production model off the market.

I do hope we get to see an additional review from Amir to compare/contrast. Judging by Poes' review, I would almost still expect a headless panther, but i'm more interested in just seeing how Amir's numbers come out.

Either way, It's fair to warn a consumer to beware based on that one mishap. I think it's wholly different to advise absolutely to not purchase from the company at all without some sort of argument or rationale to support that claim.

Hypex and Purifi needs more competitors (from customer's perspective) anyway so I do welcome more class D amps in the below $2,000 price range with 2 (or more) X 125 to 300 WPC 8 ohms. Starke seems smart to give this amp a relatively low gain of 21 dB XLR, to take advantage of the also relatively low rated power output of 130 W 8 ohms. That said, for good dynamic performance, I would suggest using preamps that can do well at output > 2 V RCA or 4 V XLR. Let's see how they re-establish themselves..

 

[lc6]

1. "Being friends with Bruno Putzey..." It's Bruno Putzeys not Putzey. Everyone and their mother misspells his surname for some reason. Apparently, even if they personally know him.
2. "The amplifier is based around the Texas Instruments TPA3255 chipset." There is no "TPA3255 chipset"; it is a single chip.
3. Look at the internal layout photo. The designer placed electrolytic caps in the power amp next to the heatsink of the amp chip and the hot output inductors. This will "dry out" the electrolyte more quickly, negatively affecting performance and reliability. The case does not appear to have any top vents or horizontal fans, so there will likely be no convection cooling. Radiators with vertical fins over the amp chips and PS are thus largely ineffective (and yes, it does matter even at 90%+ efficiency).
[Edit]
4. The TPA3255 is a ~$7-10 chip in quantity. Watch the chi-fi vendors, who already use it in inexpensive stereo models with external PS, offer multi-channel amps with built-in powerful SMPS and perhaps better front-ends using TI's high-performance op-amps. This product space will likely be commoditized soon (which, of course, is good for consumers).
Next step will be to add readily available ADC, DAC, HDMI 2.1 and AM/FM tuner chips (just like TI chips, they all come with reference designs and eval boards), plus third-party room correction software, and get into the Class D integrated amp and AVR spaces.

 

[lovinthehd]

Hey man, I'm just trying to warn people of their track record. Buying an amp is a lot of money for some people. You needn't make things so personal.

We had an article annotated on the subject https://www.audioholics.com/amplifier-reviews/starke-sound-ad4.320 (think there was more discussion in a separate thread, too)

 

[Eppie]

Thanks for testing the bridged mode. I'm sure there are those out there thinking that they could double the power per channel in 2-channel mode. It's interesting that bridging does not yield the power increase that one might expect with a more traditional amplifier design. Is that typical of class D amps or more to do with power supply design?

 

[PENG]

Thanks for testing the bridged mode. I'm sure there are those out there thinking that they could double the power per channel in 2-channel mode. It's interesting that bridging does not yield the power increase that one might expect with a more traditional amplifier design. Is that typical of class D amps or more to do with power supply design?

More to do with the specific design, other class D amps can be bridged to output double or more.

 

[ryanosaur]

Some of the Class D Amp modules from Hypex at least are Bridged, stock. I think this is for the more powerful modules. If you look at spec sheets you will see some modules can be bridged while others cannot.

 

[gene]

Thanks for the preview, Matthew. I always enjoy reading your stuff.

I would like to point out though, for anyone considering buying an amp fr this company, I would reconsider. They are untrustworthy IMO. Read through this thread to find out more.

Starke Sound AD4.320 Review (Multichannel Amplifier)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Starke Sound AD4.320 four channel amplifier. It was kindly purchased by a member new and drop shipped to me. It costs US $1,499 but they have had sales with prices as low as US $900. The Ad4.320 looks a bit industrial and is quite heavy for a...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Everyone is well aware the company had a problem with the first generation amp not delivering rated power. AFAIK they refunded every customer that wasn't satisfied with the product and discontinued the amp. The new version meets power spec. AMIR likes to create a spectacle like he's a savior to the industry. He's not. He often never retracts incorrect test data on products (IE older Denon test reports) and makes spectacles to stroke his ego and satiate his following. As a result he's created a toxic atmosphere on his forum, one which I no longer participate on. Maybe cut Starke Sound a little slack for correcting a problem they didn't know existed with the product and that they are taking care of their customers instead of trying to vilify them.

 

[Matthew J Poes]

I hope I read that correctly and I guess you meant "SOTA" = State Of The Art?

Yeah Purifi and Hypex are SOTA as in state of the art. Both offer amplifiers that are among the best measuring and sounding in the business.

 

[Matthew J Poes]

More to do with the specific design, other class D amps can be bridged to output double or more.

It has to do with the way these are bridged. As most know, an amplifiers maximum output is set by its maximum current and voltage. The higher the load impedance the more that the rail will set the limit. The lower the impedance the more that current will set the output limit.

with a BTL or bridge tied load, you double the voltage differential because the amplifier is run in differential mode. This doubles the power as each half of the amplifier is also now seeing half the impedance. Assuming sufficient current, an 8 ohm load would see double the output. But many then can’t handle 4 ohm loads because each half of the amp sees a 2 ohm load.

This amplifier is already a BTL design. So the voltage differential is as high as it can get. So they do a Parallel BTL version in which the amps sit on top of each other. This means the voltage differential doesn’t increase. You simply doubled the available current. It also means each amp is actually seeing a higher impedance, not lower. So suddenly the amp can do much more power into low impedance loads.

this amp was not current limited in the slightest at 8 ohms, was slightly current limited at 4 ohms, and obviously was very current limited at 2 ohms. By paralleling the amps in a PBTL arrangement you get the higher output into 2 ohms.

I can create a 2 ohm load with my resisters but I need to wire them into a voltage divider because the QA devices I use can’t handle the voltage it would get from a 2 ohm load at that power output level. Since I only have 8 ohm resistors it’s not possible to do that. So I need to buy some 2 ohm resistors as well to create the 2 ohm load (parallel series wired). I didn’t see a reason to test it though. It had already been tested and I trusted who tested it.

 

[Matthew J Poes]

1. "Being friends with Bruno Putzey..." It's Bruno Putzeys not Putzey. Everyone and their mother misspells his surname for some reason. Apparently, even if they personally know him.
2. "The amplifier is based around the Texas Instruments TPA3255 chipset." There is no "TPA3255 chipset"; it is a single chip.
3. Look at the internal layout photo. The designer placed electrolytic caps in the power amp next to the heatsink of the amp chip and the hot output inductors. This will "dry out" the electrolyte more quickly, negatively affecting performance and reliability. The case does not appear to have any top vents or horizontal fans, so there will likely be no convection cooling. Radiators with vertical fins over the amp chips and PS are thus largely ineffective (and yes, it does matter even at 90%+ efficiency).
[Edit]
4. The TPA3255 is a ~$7-10 chip in quantity. Watch the chi-fi vendors, who already use it in inexpensive stereo models with external PS, offer multi-channel amps with built-in powerful SMPS and perhaps better front-ends using TI's high-performance op-amps. This product space will likely be commoditized soon (which, of course, is good for consumers).
Next step will be to add readily available ADC, DAC, HDMI 2.1 and AM/FM tuner chips (just like TI chips, they all come with reference designs and eval boards), plus third-party room correction software, and get into the Class D integrated amp and AVR spaces.

My bad on the spelling. Most people mispronounce his name too. I wasn’t saying it right until we had a call together a few years back

The amp doesn’t produce much heat so I suspect in the long run it won’t have a major reliability issue.

as for the implementation. The cheap Chinese amps are setup differently and with much weaker power supplies. Since this amp measured within spitting distance of the manufacturers specs for the chip I don’t think it could be dramatically improved. The difference in noise between what I measured and the raw chip is equal to the front end gain. It’s exactly as expected.

these TI chips are used in a lot of very high end and expensive powered monitors. Some of the speakers from Genelec, Dutch & Dutch, etc use relatively cheap TI or similar Class D chips. Those speakers all sound amazing and the performance I measured is really not bad. It obviously can be improved upon, but from a systems level, there are often far bigger problems to deal with than a little less noise or a little less distortion.

cheaper Chinese amps are a single module per channel with a small 70-100 watt power supply. This has a 1200 watt power supply and each channel is two chips run in BTL.

Bruno has actually said it would be his for someone to commoditize his amp. It could be done. They could be made much cheaper. Someone just needs to be willing to license the design and build them at quantity.

Tommy O’Brien had told me something similar before he passed. He had developed some small modules with really good performance. He didn’t offer them for sale. He wanted Someone to license the design and mass produce them. He designed them for a Sound United or YAMAHA to buy.