AcuDefTechGuy Audioholic Jedi Jul 10, 2007 34,057 0 113 Feb 3, 2011 #21 psbfan9 said: I like the idea that kit, my wife however does not. It just hit me I could use Mirage speakers. I would have plenty of room under the tv. The only thing is I L/R/C may be a little crowded as I have 58" on top of my stand.... Now, which series to get........ Click to expand... You are not allowed to do that, man! Your name is psbfan! You must stick to PSB! Hello??
psbfan9 said: I like the idea that kit, my wife however does not. It just hit me I could use Mirage speakers. I would have plenty of room under the tv. The only thing is I L/R/C may be a little crowded as I have 58" on top of my stand.... Now, which series to get........ Click to expand... You are not allowed to do that, man! Your name is psbfan! You must stick to PSB! Hello??
GranteedEV Audioholic Ninja Jul 14, 2009 4,945 0 113 Calgary, Canada Feb 3, 2011 #22 AcuDefTechGuy said: You are not allowed to do that, man! Your name is psbfan! You must stick to PSB! Hello?? Click to expand... AcuRevelSalon2Guy has a point here.
AcuDefTechGuy said: You are not allowed to do that, man! Your name is psbfan! You must stick to PSB! Hello?? Click to expand... AcuRevelSalon2Guy has a point here.
GranteedEV Audioholic Ninja Jul 14, 2009 4,945 0 113 Calgary, Canada Feb 3, 2011 #23 g psbfan9 said: I like the idea that kit, my wife however does not. It just hit me I could use Mirage speakers. I would have plenty of room under the tv. The only thing is I L/R/C may be a little crowded as I have 58" on top of my stand.... Now, which series to get........ Click to expand... a well done diy kit can have infinite WAF if you get input from her on the design! Reactions: psbfan9
g psbfan9 said: I like the idea that kit, my wife however does not. It just hit me I could use Mirage speakers. I would have plenty of room under the tv. The only thing is I L/R/C may be a little crowded as I have 58" on top of my stand.... Now, which series to get........ Click to expand... a well done diy kit can have infinite WAF if you get input from her on the design!
AcuDefTechGuy Audioholic Jedi Jul 10, 2007 34,057 0 113 Feb 3, 2011 #24 GranteedEV said: AcuRevelSalon2Guy has a point here. Click to expand... So many speakers, so little space. I need to have a room for Revel, Orion, PSB, Martin Logan, Magnepan, Wilson Audio, RHB, & DefTech.
GranteedEV said: AcuRevelSalon2Guy has a point here. Click to expand... So many speakers, so little space. I need to have a room for Revel, Orion, PSB, Martin Logan, Magnepan, Wilson Audio, RHB, & DefTech.
GranteedEV Audioholic Ninja Jul 14, 2009 4,945 0 113 Calgary, Canada Feb 3, 2011 #25 AcuDefTechGuy said: So many speakers, so little space. I need to have a room for Revel, Orion, PSB, Martin Logan, Magnepan, Wilson Audio, RHB, & DefTech. Click to expand... *points to sig* Reactions: AcuDefTechGuy
AcuDefTechGuy said: So many speakers, so little space. I need to have a room for Revel, Orion, PSB, Martin Logan, Magnepan, Wilson Audio, RHB, & DefTech. Click to expand... *points to sig*
psbfan9 Audioholic Samurai Dec 29, 2010 2,790 0 113 Feb 4, 2011 #26 You're right! AcuDefTechGuy said: You are not allowed to do that, man! Your name is psbfan! You must stick to PSB! Hello?? Click to expand... HaHa...Yeah, Miragefan9 just sounds silly. I would love to stay with PSB, but, cost and now size are an issue. Though the Mirage speakers are intriguing, I'm back to looking for stands or end tables of some type to keep my current setup.
You're right! AcuDefTechGuy said: You are not allowed to do that, man! Your name is psbfan! You must stick to PSB! Hello?? Click to expand... HaHa...Yeah, Miragefan9 just sounds silly. I would love to stay with PSB, but, cost and now size are an issue. Though the Mirage speakers are intriguing, I'm back to looking for stands or end tables of some type to keep my current setup.
Pyrrho Audioholic Ninja Aug 30, 2005 3,723 0 113 Feb 4, 2011 #27 AcuDefTechGuy said: You are not allowed to do that, man! Your name is psbfan! You must stick to PSB! Hello?? Click to expand... That is why it is a good idea to not have a brand name in one's posting name. It leaves one's options open that way. It looks very odd to call oneself after one brand and then not actually own any of it. Reactions: psbfan9
AcuDefTechGuy said: You are not allowed to do that, man! Your name is psbfan! You must stick to PSB! Hello?? Click to expand... That is why it is a good idea to not have a brand name in one's posting name. It leaves one's options open that way. It looks very odd to call oneself after one brand and then not actually own any of it.
AcuDefTechGuy Audioholic Jedi Jul 10, 2007 34,057 0 113 Feb 4, 2011 #28 I think there are 2 major factors that separate the best speakers from the good speakers, and 1 major factor that separates the best speakers from the great speakers. I think all good speakers can image the sound very well. The good speakers will lack bass. Some great speakers may have the great bass, but they lack that last drop of prestine resolution and detail, and some of the instruments sound like they are barely in the background, being overwhelmed by the drums and other bigger louder instruments. They will image a great 3D soundstage. The best speakers will have great bass and the best resolution/detail - meaning you can hear every instrument being played. They will image a great 3D soundstage. But is that worth the $20K difference? It seems like such a minor detail for such a major price difference. I disagree with the great Audio Critic guru Peter Aczel on one thing. He thinks that only dipole speakers can image the best 3D soundstage - that all monopole "box" speakers are monkey coffins. I think monopole and other non-dipole speakers can image just as well as the dipole speakers. Reactions: psbfan9
I think there are 2 major factors that separate the best speakers from the good speakers, and 1 major factor that separates the best speakers from the great speakers. I think all good speakers can image the sound very well. The good speakers will lack bass. Some great speakers may have the great bass, but they lack that last drop of prestine resolution and detail, and some of the instruments sound like they are barely in the background, being overwhelmed by the drums and other bigger louder instruments. They will image a great 3D soundstage. The best speakers will have great bass and the best resolution/detail - meaning you can hear every instrument being played. They will image a great 3D soundstage. But is that worth the $20K difference? It seems like such a minor detail for such a major price difference. I disagree with the great Audio Critic guru Peter Aczel on one thing. He thinks that only dipole speakers can image the best 3D soundstage - that all monopole "box" speakers are monkey coffins. I think monopole and other non-dipole speakers can image just as well as the dipole speakers.
AcuDefTechGuy Audioholic Jedi Jul 10, 2007 34,057 0 113 Feb 4, 2011 #29 Pyrrho said: That is why it is a good idea to not have a brand name in one's posting name. It leaves one's options open that way. It looks very odd to call oneself after one brand and then not actually own any of it. Click to expand... That would be wise.
Pyrrho said: That is why it is a good idea to not have a brand name in one's posting name. It leaves one's options open that way. It looks very odd to call oneself after one brand and then not actually own any of it. Click to expand... That would be wise.
psbfan9 Audioholic Samurai Dec 29, 2010 2,790 0 113 Feb 6, 2011 #30 Bipolar, but the meds are helping. Acudeftechguy, I get the point you're making with the difference between monkey coffins and dipole/bipole speakers. I saw these and couldn't resist. http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/548525960/definitive-technology-bp1-2x I'll be changing my user name to deftechfan9...LOL
Bipolar, but the meds are helping. Acudeftechguy, I get the point you're making with the difference between monkey coffins and dipole/bipole speakers. I saw these and couldn't resist. http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/548525960/definitive-technology-bp1-2x I'll be changing my user name to deftechfan9...LOL
GranteedEV Audioholic Ninja Jul 14, 2009 4,945 0 113 Calgary, Canada Feb 6, 2011 #31 That's not quite what he meant. He was talking about the sound of non-traditional box polar response speakers like: http://www.salksound.com/archos open baffle - images.htm http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/lasvegas2010/images/stories/jan10a/magnepan_room1.jpg http://www.linkwitzlab.com/images/photos/pluto_2s.jpg http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_13_3/images/bolzano-villetri-3003-speakers-front-main.jpg http://www.perfect8.com/nav/images/p_force.jpg Reactions: AcuDefTechGuy
That's not quite what he meant. He was talking about the sound of non-traditional box polar response speakers like: http://www.salksound.com/archos open baffle - images.htm http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/lasvegas2010/images/stories/jan10a/magnepan_room1.jpg http://www.linkwitzlab.com/images/photos/pluto_2s.jpg http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_13_3/images/bolzano-villetri-3003-speakers-front-main.jpg http://www.perfect8.com/nav/images/p_force.jpg
AcuDefTechGuy Audioholic Jedi Jul 10, 2007 34,057 0 113 Feb 6, 2011 #32 psbfan9 said: Acudeftechguy, I get the point you're making with the difference between monkey coffins and dipole/bipole speakers. I saw these and couldn't resist. http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/548525960/definitive-technology-bp1-2x I'll be changing my user name to deftechfan9...LOL Click to expand... I know I haven't listened to as many speakers as some folks, but I've listened to quite a few including the Linkwitz Orion, Revel Salon 2, B&W 800D, 802D, 803D, Dali Euphonia MS5, Martin Logan Vantage, Krell Resolution One, Paradigm Studio 100, and a Klipsch big tower. I can honestly say that I still think the DefTech BP7000 & 7001 are amazing speakers for their prices. Even if I own the Orion or Revel or both, I would still say the BP7000/7001 are amazing speakers for their prices. Great speakers sound great, even if the company that markets them are full of it. But for some reasons, only the best speakers have both the best sound and best marketing.
psbfan9 said: Acudeftechguy, I get the point you're making with the difference between monkey coffins and dipole/bipole speakers. I saw these and couldn't resist. http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/548525960/definitive-technology-bp1-2x I'll be changing my user name to deftechfan9...LOL Click to expand... I know I haven't listened to as many speakers as some folks, but I've listened to quite a few including the Linkwitz Orion, Revel Salon 2, B&W 800D, 802D, 803D, Dali Euphonia MS5, Martin Logan Vantage, Krell Resolution One, Paradigm Studio 100, and a Klipsch big tower. I can honestly say that I still think the DefTech BP7000 & 7001 are amazing speakers for their prices. Even if I own the Orion or Revel or both, I would still say the BP7000/7001 are amazing speakers for their prices. Great speakers sound great, even if the company that markets them are full of it. But for some reasons, only the best speakers have both the best sound and best marketing.
3db Audioholic Slumlord Sep 7, 2002 16,486 0 113 65 Ottawa Canada Feb 7, 2011 #33 AcuDefTechGuy said: But for some reasons, only the best speakers have both the best sound and best marketing. Click to expand... This begs to oopen the question, how do you know if you heard the best speaker if you've never knew about its existance before? such as http://www.hansenaudio.com/specs.php?Topic=1st&Model=GRAND_MASTER I'm not saying they are the best but I'm betting you've nort heard of them before. The shape of these boxes would lead me to think that internal reflections of this speaker are next to none. Last edited: Jul 8, 2011
AcuDefTechGuy said: But for some reasons, only the best speakers have both the best sound and best marketing. Click to expand... This begs to oopen the question, how do you know if you heard the best speaker if you've never knew about its existance before? such as http://www.hansenaudio.com/specs.php?Topic=1st&Model=GRAND_MASTER I'm not saying they are the best but I'm betting you've nort heard of them before. The shape of these boxes would lead me to think that internal reflections of this speaker are next to none.
AcuDefTechGuy Audioholic Jedi Jul 10, 2007 34,057 0 113 Feb 7, 2011 #34 3db said: This begs to oopen the question, how do you know if you heard the best speaker if you've never knew about its existance before? Click to expand... I doubt if anyone has heard every single speaker out there, and I doubt there is only ONE "best" speakers out there. I bet the Salon 2 and the Orion are just 2 examples. But what I'm saying is the ALL the "best" speakers out there will have all those same qualities - superb clarity, detail, resolution, imaging, and bass.
3db said: This begs to oopen the question, how do you know if you heard the best speaker if you've never knew about its existance before? Click to expand... I doubt if anyone has heard every single speaker out there, and I doubt there is only ONE "best" speakers out there. I bet the Salon 2 and the Orion are just 2 examples. But what I'm saying is the ALL the "best" speakers out there will have all those same qualities - superb clarity, detail, resolution, imaging, and bass.
GranteedEV Audioholic Ninja Jul 14, 2009 4,945 0 113 Calgary, Canada Feb 7, 2011 #35 AcuDefTechGuy said: But what I'm saying is the ALL the "best" speakers out there will have all those same qualities - superb clarity, detail, resolution, imaging, and bass. Click to expand... I sort of agree with this if those speakers are truly as great as you/they say. The speaker that does the least to the signal by the time it reaches your ears should be the best speaker, and by virtue of that all the best speakers should sound extremely similar!
AcuDefTechGuy said: But what I'm saying is the ALL the "best" speakers out there will have all those same qualities - superb clarity, detail, resolution, imaging, and bass. Click to expand... I sort of agree with this if those speakers are truly as great as you/they say. The speaker that does the least to the signal by the time it reaches your ears should be the best speaker, and by virtue of that all the best speakers should sound extremely similar!
3db Audioholic Slumlord Sep 7, 2002 16,486 0 113 65 Ottawa Canada Feb 7, 2011 #36 AcuDefTechGuy said: But what I'm saying is the ALL the "best" speakers out there will have all those same qualities - superb clarity, detail, resolution, imaging, and bass. Click to expand... I'm just dinging you on the best marketing aspect of your statement is all. Best marketing doesn't make ensure the best speakers are heard. Thats why I brought up Hansen audio. I personally never heard them but jduging from their build/weight, they will easily best B&W vaulted 800 series for lack of cabinet resonance. Mind you, they cost a couples buck cheaper than the paltform used to move the shuttle to the launch pad. I happen to agree with what you've said above.
AcuDefTechGuy said: But what I'm saying is the ALL the "best" speakers out there will have all those same qualities - superb clarity, detail, resolution, imaging, and bass. Click to expand... I'm just dinging you on the best marketing aspect of your statement is all. Best marketing doesn't make ensure the best speakers are heard. Thats why I brought up Hansen audio. I personally never heard them but jduging from their build/weight, they will easily best B&W vaulted 800 series for lack of cabinet resonance. Mind you, they cost a couples buck cheaper than the paltform used to move the shuttle to the launch pad. I happen to agree with what you've said above.
AcuDefTechGuy Audioholic Jedi Jul 10, 2007 34,057 0 113 Feb 7, 2011 #37 3db said: I'm just dinging you on the best marketing aspect of your statement is all. Best marketing doesn't make ensure the best speakers are heard. Click to expand... Picky! Okay, scratch my comment about the marketing. I THINK what I meant to say was that speakers like the Orions and Salon 2s have more "respectable" documentation and marketing on their websites. Thus, most people take these speakers more seriously and a lot of people consider these to be "world-class". Other speakers, even if they are said to be great-sounding, are not looked upon as "world-class" because many people may consider them to be "snake-oil" or "voodoo" or just plain "dishonest" type of speakers. Even if my BP7000SCs are world-class, no one would believe it because those darn Def Tech people choose to be "dishonest" on their frequency response listing on their website.
3db said: I'm just dinging you on the best marketing aspect of your statement is all. Best marketing doesn't make ensure the best speakers are heard. Click to expand... Picky! Okay, scratch my comment about the marketing. I THINK what I meant to say was that speakers like the Orions and Salon 2s have more "respectable" documentation and marketing on their websites. Thus, most people take these speakers more seriously and a lot of people consider these to be "world-class". Other speakers, even if they are said to be great-sounding, are not looked upon as "world-class" because many people may consider them to be "snake-oil" or "voodoo" or just plain "dishonest" type of speakers. Even if my BP7000SCs are world-class, no one would believe it because those darn Def Tech people choose to be "dishonest" on their frequency response listing on their website.
