Speaker shopping-A new approach Part 2

CraigV

CraigV

Audioholic General
So now you’re wondering how you’re going to explain to people why you’re standing on a street corner with your eyes closed. Not to worry, just get a pair of dark sunglasses. Now it’s time to move on to the second part of this educational experience - music. Metal or Mozart, Pop or Pavarotti, Country or Count Basie…everyone has their favorites. Just like the sounds we all associate with soundtracks, we want our speakers to faithfully re-produce the music that moves and inspires us.

Just as in part one of this article, before heading out to audition speakers, you want to first listen to some music. “Easy” you think “I listened to some tunes in my car today”. Most of us listen to music already being played through speakers or headphones. Not many of us get to enjoy live music made by a piano, violin, trumpet, acoustic guitar…etal. This is a very important step in listener education. Anytime you have the opportunity to listen to un-amplified music played live, I advise you to take advantage.
Again, close your eyes and really tune into the sound of the instrument. Ideally it will be played by a seasoned musician, and not at your 5 year old nieces first recital (which can be a treat in and of itself). Try to pick up on the cues that make a live performance sound alive - the ambiance of the room, the performer, the strings or reeds, the body of the instrument…done properly, the experience can be not only informative but exhilarating. And when you can experience an entire orchestra playing in concert, you gain a whole new appreciation for the term “soundstage”. Better yet, if you’re lucky enough to know a musician, or even a good singer, ask if they would perform for you in your ultimate forum - your living room. How does the instrument or voice sound as you listen from your favorite chair?
“Orchestras aren’t really my thing” you say? OK, if you know someone with a set of drums, ask to sit in on a practice session. Like a gunshot at a firing range, the percussive sound from a drum can be heard and felt. You may be surprised at how different a high-hat and other cymbals sound live, as opposed to pre-recorded.
Going to see a staged and amplified concert is not the same, as too many variables enter into the equation.

OK, so we’re all aware of the sounds around us - good! But before you venture out into your local audio shop, just a little bit about what happens in between the event of the sound happening, and coming out of your speakers. Typically, the recording chain begins with a microphone. The type, size and even the brand of microphone has an effect on how sound…sounds. So, the very first link in the chain can make for a good, or not so good recording. Even the placement of the mic can change the way the listener perceives what they are hearing. I read a review of a pair of speakers once where the reviewer lauded the speakers ability to render such fine detail, he could hear the hammer striking the piano strings. The only way I know to hear such detail would be to walk up to the piano and stick my head in right next to the strings. Apparently, a recording engineer along the way thought the best place to capture the sound of the piano was by placing the microphone right in the instrument.
The next steps involves mixing, editing and mastering. At this point, we’re at the mercy of anywhere from 1 to 5 people or more, as the musicians, mixer, engineer…even the producer can get involved, all in the quest of getting a particular sound. Some recordings are well engineered, and some sound like a train wreck. It’s because of these factors that it is important for the listener to know ahead of time how something should - and shouldn’t - sound.

So, with all of this information securely stowed in your cranium, it’s finally time to head out to ______? Where do you go to listen to speakers? A “big-box” store? Radio Shack? An audio salon? Just where is the best place to audition speakers? The answer is - in your room. Sure, peruse the internet, jump into forums, read reviews, ask questions…but only as a starting point. As you seek enlightenment, remember you’re inquiring about a very subjective matter. Jot down some brand names and models, see what’s in your area, and plan on spending the better part of several days driving around and listening. Take along a note pad, and write down your impressions of each speaker you listen to. Afterwards, take some time to digest what you’ve heard, what you liked and what you didn’t like. Then, repeat as much as possible until you’ve listened to a lot of choices, and then start to narrow down your list. Go back several times until you have only a few choices left.

Now here’s where it can get tricky. As I said before, the best place to audition is in your room. Ideally, the store you’ve been visiting will allow you to take home a floor sample (with a security deposit) and listen to the speakers with your equipment in the space you have. This is the only way to know just how the speaker is going to sound for you in your domicile. In lieu of such an audition, you may want to consider the return policy of the store where you’re purchasing. Chances are, if you’ve been able to listen in a dedicated listening room (rather than a noisy sales floor) you should have a good impression of the qualities of the speaker, but it’s always good to have a means to return, or trade in the speakers.

Of course another issue is the cost. Sure, you could by a $15 pair of computer speakers, plug them in and they’ll make sound, but if you’ve read this article in its entirety so far, you know you want something more. Some people only want a pair of speakers to start with, while others jump right in and go for the full 7.1 setup right off the bat. Either way is fine after proper auditioning, but a budget is of concern. You may think you only want two speakers for music listening at first, but since home theater has really taken off, it would be wise to see if the line of speakers you’re considering have matching center channel and surround speakers for possible future expansion. This will help to insure a cohesive sound all through out in a surround sound system. You don’t need a “matching” subwoofer as bass is handled a bit differently, and a quality sub can be added at any time. Also, never feel like you need to buy a certain brand nor spend your life savings to get good sounding speakers.
Another consideration is buying from the internet. Some better deals can be found, and some companies sell direct from their web site, eliminating the “middle man” while passing the savings on to you. Some even allow an in home audition (crucial since there’s no other way of auditioning) and a liberal return policy. There’s also the used market to consider, especially if the speaker you want is out of reach financially, or just isn’t made anymore, but keep in mind “caveat emptor” - let the buyer beware. Know who you’re getting the speakers from, and ask if they’ll accept a return/refund as part of the deal. Not as likely as retail, but it never hurts to ask.

Once you’ve made your purchase, follow any of the good guides for setting up and calibrating your system, sit back, listen…and enjoy.
 
agarwalro

agarwalro

Audioholic Ninja
Some people only want a pair of speakers to start with, while others jump right in and go for the full 7.1 setup right off the bat.
I have always been an advocate of delayed gratification. I always recommend staggering the purchases and getting the best you can affort.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
I have always been an advocate of delayed gratification. I always recommend staggering the purchases and getting the best you can affort.
Agreed. If your reading this I suggest building over time even if you have the funds right now. It's nice to get something new. But make sure to even out the purchases over time and to take your time. If your unsure on a speaker choice just wait until you are sure.
 
F

fredk

Audioholic General
Excellent Article!

If your reading this I suggest building over time even if you have the funds right now.
That was my plan, but then I kept saving all this extra cash. What was I to do?? :D
 
agarwalro

agarwalro

Audioholic Ninja
It is not easy and the urge to compromise and get everything is very hard to resist. It took me 4 years to get where I have my setup now. I consider myself to be fairly in control of my animal urges [thinks "am adult/mature" then, :rolleyes:]... yet it was very tough at times.
 
A

ack_bak

Audioholic
About 9 years ago I bought my Polk mains, center, and sub. Then I upgraded my receiver a few years later. Then I bought some surrounds a year or two after that. Two years ago I upgraded my receiver again and also purchased a good pair (RBH) of surrounds. Last year I upgraded my sub. This week I finally updated my mains.

I have come to the conclusion that it is best to stretch a little on your main speakers and subs.
 
J

jamie2112

Banned
Nice part 2 Craig....you Must have some free time on your mind , I mean hands.......:D Lot o typin...:D
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
Some days at work are busy, some…not so much;):D
Your Mom called you better get back to mowing the lawn and cleaning your room buddy or she might take away that audio allowance and plug your ears. :)
 
CraigV

CraigV

Audioholic General
Your Mom called you better get back to mowing the lawn and cleaning your room buddy or she might take away that audio allowance and plug your ears. :)
Ironically enough, at age 47, married for 22 and two kids’ ages 12 & 10, my kids are usually the ones yelling at me to “turn down that music”
 
SopRage

SopRage

Audioholic
Just thinking out loud, here.

Shopping for speakers has always seemed like a "fool's errand" to me, given what must be surmounted: speaker set up and unique acoustics for each demo room, change in mood and/or focus of the listener, relatively short auditory memory in humans, speakers designed to fool/impress in specific areas (mid-bass or top end "sparkle"), just to name a few. As a music teacher who has had to "objectively" judge and place several ensembles in a row (which requires less specific listening but is still staggeringly difficult to do well), I place little faith in my ability to objectively compare/contrast speakers heard more than a few seconds after each other or in different locations (especially if they are of similar or high quality). I'm not entirely convinced others can do it all that well either, to be honest.

Even by "memorizing" sounds we think we know, I think we underestimate how impressionable we are. I'd bet dollars to donuts we're more likely to think Paradigm S8s are reproducing a thunderstorm accurately in a high-end demo room than white-van speakers set up in an acoustically similar room at your uncle's, even if they were functionally identical.

I'd wager we'd find preferences in time of day we listen, or false positives in the form of "liking" certain speakers more after we hear poorer speakers before them, and a host of other problems as well.

None of this is to say that Craig's posts are not helpful; I think for many of us, they're helpful suggestions, but I wonder at times how accurate we really are at identifying the most "accurate" speakers.

For me, I think A/B blind comparisons, in the same room, with only seconds between, is the only way we can REALLY determine which speakers we like best (which is still subjective). For objective selection of the most accurate speakers, it would seem measurements are the only real chance we have.

Craig's right though; we can only subjectively choose the speakers we prefer when we listen to them in our own rooms.
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
I hear you Rage, but I still tried. I filled up a Mead notebook, with an array of discs, probably double digit dealers. For my stereo speakers, I've heard them in at least three rooms, if not more. My goal was 50 models of speakers but I only got half way there before getting sick of the process.

A common thing you hear about measurements is that they should be used at least to narrow down the field. After that, even some of the most reputable speaker designers would say from that point, how does it sound to you? Which measurements would be superior anyway, the flat as a table response, or the one with a tapering high end that DBTs say humans prefer?

Then which measurements will you compare? They're not all done at NRC. I guess Stereophile has their own methodology since they don't have an anechoic chamber? The last place to trust is the mftr themselves, I would imagine.

The easiest thing to use to help narrow down the speakers that are accurate, IMO, is using a cappella choral music. We've heard naturally produced human voices virtually every single day of our lives, from multiple sources, in multiple rooms, etc.
 
CraigV

CraigV

Audioholic General
Just thinking out loud, here.

Shopping for speakers has always seemed like a "fool's errand" to me, given what must be surmounted: speaker set up and unique acoustics for each demo room, change in mood and/or focus of the listener, relatively short auditory memory in humans, speakers designed to fool/impress in specific areas (mid-bass or top end "sparkle"), just to name a few. As a music teacher who has had to "objectively" judge and place several ensembles in a row (which requires less specific listening but is still staggeringly difficult to do well), I place little faith in my ability to objectively compare/contrast speakers heard more than a few seconds after each other or in different locations (especially if they are of similar or high quality). I'm not entirely convinced others can do it all that well either, to be honest.

Even by "memorizing" sounds we think we know, I think we underestimate how impressionable we are. I'd bet dollars to donuts we're more likely to think Paradigm S8s are reproducing a thunderstorm accurately in a high-end demo room than white-van speakers set up in an acoustically similar room at your uncle's, even if they were functionally identical.

I'd wager we'd find preferences in time of day we listen, or false positives in the form of "liking" certain speakers more after we hear poorer speakers before them, and a host of other problems as well.

None of this is to say that Craig's posts are not helpful; I think for many of us, they're helpful suggestions, but I wonder at times how accurate we really are at identifying the most "accurate" speakers.

For me, I think A/B blind comparisons, in the same room, with only seconds between, is the only way we can REALLY determine which speakers we like best (which is still subjective). For objective selection of the most accurate speakers, it would seem measurements are the only real chance we have.

Craig's right though; we can only subjectively choose the speakers we prefer when we listen to them in our own rooms.
Speakers may indeed be one of the areas in which objectivity & subjectivity both play strong roles. Should one buy solely on specs? Can two speakers which measure nearly the same sound the same?

I’m still liking my Omni 550’s very much – wish I could afford the OMD 28’s :(
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
I hear you Rage, but I still tried. I filled up a Mead notebook, with an array of discs, probably double digit dealers. For my stereo speakers, I've heard them in at least three rooms, if not more. My goal was 50 models of speakers but I only got half way there before getting sick of the process.

A common thing you hear about measurements is that they should be used at least to narrow down the field. After that, even some of the most reputable speaker designers would say from that point, how does it sound to you? Which measurements would be superior anyway, the flat as a table response, or the one with a tapering high end that DBTs say humans prefer? .

Agreed. The measurements we're usually given just consistently fail to tell the whole story. We don't know enough plain and simple. Even with the speakers that theoretically should be "better" - we still see the flaws that physically hold them back. There truly is no perfect speaker!
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
Although I didn't write much about thinking I have already advocated a methodology in speaker audition as shown below. This is nothing new. I've posted this many many times. :)

What I would do is to take a pad of paper with you, write down the make and
model of each speaker you audition and what you liked and disliked about the
speakers you were auditioning. Was the bass tight and deep or was it boomy and loose sounding? Were the mids life like or were they hollow or just too pronounced? Was the treble irritating and harsh or were they dark and not revealing or were they smooththat made you want to listen for more? How was the imaging?

Bring music with you that you are very familiar with and know quite well. To
make it easier to audition HT speaker systems, listen to the main speakers in 2
channel mode with music. Music is much harder to reproduce accurately then a movie soundtrack so if the speakers do well with music, then they will do well with HT. Speakers that do HT well may not do well with music. When auditioning the center channel of the same brand and series as the main speakers, pick a difficult source like an announcer that mumbles alot. If you can understand what the mumbling announcer is saying, then you have a good center channel.

I would go to speciality stores first and start auditioning speakers first
instead of going to the internet first. Once your likes are determined, you can
mention them here and fellow members can make internet brand recommendations based on your likes/dislikes. The specality stores are better setup acousticaly then the big box stores which will make auditioning a little easier. It will give you an idea of what you like in a speaker.

Keep track of what amp or receiver is powering the speakers you're auditioning. Try to get a receiver/amp that closest resembles what you have or want to get. It just reduces another variable when audtioning speakers.


One thing to keep note off. When auditioning speakers, make sure the volume
levels are matched between the diiferent speaker pairs because the louder
speaker pair will always sound better. Listen to levels that you think you
would listen to most of the time because thats how you are going to be using
them most of the time.
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
Some people only want a pair of speakers to start with, while others jump right in and go for the full 7.1 setup right off the bat.
I have always been an advocate of delayed gratification. I always recommend staggering the purchases and getting the best you can affort.
The problem with that approach is that the manufacturer might stop making the speakers, and so your surround system may not match very well.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I think most of us agree that our own room is the most important place for the final audition.

When I auditioned the $2k Revel M22 bookshelf speakers, the dealer offered to let me take them home over the weekend. But they were $2K, not the $22K Revel Salon 2.

When I auditioned the $23K B&W 800D, I asked if I could take them home with me, and the dealer tactfully declined.

Some people change houses more often then others. What if the speakers sound great in their present homes, but not so great in their future homes?

That is the reason we want to make sure speakers not only have great on-axis frequency response, but great off-axis frequency response. These speakers will sound great in most rooms and most homes.

I bet the Revel Salon 2 will sound great in all rooms even without room treatments, except for those rooms made of mostly glass or metal.:D
 
psbfan9

psbfan9

Audioholic Samurai
I don't get it...

Okay, thought I would post here. Seems the best place for this. I have a 58" inch entertainment center. Just bought a 47" LCD and wall mounted it above the entertainment center. Before this I had my B1's on either side of the old 27" monitor, and the center on a shelf below that. Now there is no room to stand the B1's up right, so they are laying on there sides to not block the new tv. I have been looking for stands, but nothing seems to be stable enough as I have a spongy floor. I only have 17" on the sides of the entertainment center for a stand, end table or something to put the speakers on.
I have been looking to change the whole PSB package and get floor standing speakers to eliminate the need for stands. But, at only 35"H, from what I have seen of most floor standers, this doesn't seem high enough to get best listening results, as my sitting position is about 48"-50" high. So, I would still need stands(?) and I can't find anything stable enough. Walking on my carpet, everything shakes. So solid and sturdy is a necessity. I'm at loss here. Not sure what to do.
The wife says "No wall mounting".
 
Last edited:
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
Okay, thought I would post here. Seems the best place for this. I have a 58" inch entertainment center. Just bought a 47" LCD and wall mounted it above the entertainment center. Before this I had my B1's on either side of the old 27" monitor, and the center on a shelf below that. Now there is no room to stand the B1's up right, so they are laying on there sides to not block the new tv. I have been looking for stands, but nothing seems to be stable enough as I have a spongy floor. I only have 17" on the sides of the entertainment center for a stand, end table or something to put the speakers on.
I have been looking to change the whole PSB package and get floor standing speakers to eliminate the need for stands. But, at only 35"H, from what I have seen of most floor standers, this doesn't seem high enough to get best listening results, as my sitting position is about 48"-50" high. So, I would still need stands(?) and I can't find anything stable enough. Walking on my carpet, everything shakes. So solid and sturdy is a necessity. I'm at loss here. Not sure what to do.
The wife says "No wall mounting".
A ZA5.5 Tall Tower sounds just right for you, if you can find someone to do the box for you or you can make the box jsut right.
 
psbfan9

psbfan9

Audioholic Samurai
The light bulb came on.

I like the idea that kit, my wife however does not.

It just hit me I could use Mirage speakers. I would have plenty of room under the tv. The only thing is I L/R/C may be a little crowded as I have 58" on top of my stand.... Now, which series to get........
 
newsletter

  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top