speaker selection help

KenM10759

KenM10759

Audioholic Ninja
If you listen to music with a lot of deep bass that the Q900 wouldn't reach, go with a pair of Q700 and squeeze your budget up for either an SVS PB-2000 or Hsu Research VTF-3 Mk5HP subwoofer for those tunes or movies where a sub is really needed regardless of what speakers you have.

It would be an incredible setup.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
Why get tower speakers at all when you have a good sub? All they are at that point is an over-priced bookshelf speaker that comes with its own speaker stand.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
If stuck on towers you might try and see about some JBL S590s, got a pair recently for $900 and like them a lot, but think you'd probably be better off with bookshelfs (maybe the 530s) and a good sub (or subs).
 
KenM10759

KenM10759

Audioholic Ninja
Why get tower speakers at all when you have a good sub? All they are at that point is an over-priced bookshelf speaker that comes with its own speaker stand.
I thought I explained it, but perhaps not clearly enough so let me try again.

First of all, when you have floor standing speakers they usually don't occupy any more floor space than bookshelf speakers on stands. In the case of mine, they actually use less space than the stand mount speakers they replaced.

Floor standing speakers have a larger cabinet that becomes part of how they perform. With a larger cabinet the builder can effectively create separate spaces within that have the desired volume and porting matched to each individual driver. Or they can make one big resonant box, or something in between. In general terms, there is no replacement for displacement in automobile engines nor loudspeakers. A typical floor standing speaker can generally achieve lower frequencies than it's bookshelf counterpart.

Now we get to why get a floor standing speaker if you have a subwoofer. I'm a guy who uses the system mostly for music. Much of the music I listen to doesn't have anything below 50 or 60hz and it's really nice to switch the receiver into direct mode, sending the full signal to my speakers and nothing to the sub. The music sounds cleaner, smoother and presents better stereo imaging. I appreciate that sound so much that I will someday get better tower speakers that have much larger drivers and can go even lower.

Not a lot of 2 channel integrated amps or receivers have true bass management to control a subwoofer, even the high end ones. The more I can depend upon a single pair of speakers to present the music, the better it sounds. Until then because I do also listen to some modern music that will shake the walls and watch some movies that so the same, I need a subwoofer and use it.
 
JOHN FICKEL

JOHN FICKEL

Senior Audioholic
Agreed I would never do a bookshelf speaker. Look at Audioholics showcase ?? No bookshelf!
 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Spartan
I would never do a tower that couldn't play into the 20s :D. Well I would but depends on the setup. There plenty of stand mounted speakers that play well into the 40s and upper 30s for music that's fine for most. The BMR from philharmonic audio is a great example. I'd take that over any of the aforementioned speakers.
 
JOHN FICKEL

JOHN FICKEL

Senior Audioholic
My RF-7ii's play Down too 30hz.. I'm still contemplating on, running them with bass out too both... It's does sound good. I have them crossed over at 60 Hz now.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Agreed I would never do a bookshelf speaker. Look at Audioholics showcase ?? No bookshelf!
I would never put Klipsch in any system I own, so to each their own.

My bookshelf speakers get down to around 40hz well and can be played full range for music too. They won't sound like a tower, but I don't need them to. For a MUSIC ONLY system, tower is the way to go. For a system that does everything, not so much IMO.
 
JOHN FICKEL

JOHN FICKEL

Senior Audioholic
You're right to each their own, Everyone has a different opinion. I personally won't do anything other than Klipsch , everything else sounds flat and boring to me. Especially for movies. Go look and see what they use in an IMAX ? KLIPSCH
 
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everettT

everettT

Audioholic Spartan
You're right to each their own, Everyone has a different opinion. I personally won't do anything other than Klipsch , everything else sounds flat and boring to me. Especially for movies. Go look and see what they use in an IMAX ? KLIPSCH
Not every imax is the same, I know a couple that use danley sound labs.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
You're right to each their own, Everyone has a different opinion. I personally won't do anything other than Klipsch , everything else sounds flat and boring to me. Especially for movies. Go look and see what they use in an IMAX ? KLIPSCH
They use them because they can get more sound due to high sensitivity and those are NOT the same as what you're listening to at home. Most of the theaters in the Midwest when I was out there were using JBL HLS. Our IMAX dome here uses custom speakers, not Klipsch. You've become accustomed to overemphasized highs so other speakers sound dull to you. That's a preference you've developed. Some people like Bose and think they sound great too.
 
JOHN FICKEL

JOHN FICKEL

Senior Audioholic
True lol. I even turn the highs up more! I listen to a lot of Death Metal.. And Rock ... According to Klipsch, the technology in their home speakers is The same as the imax stuff. Just a much smaller footprint. And just in their high-end reference. I was also told that by a Klipsch rep
 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Spartan
The speakers I referenced earlier from philharmonic audio for 100 more the the 1500 you listed, should completely blow anything in that list away for absolute tonal neutrality.
http://philharmonicaudio.com/BMR Philharmonitor.html

Cabinet Cherry, maple, piano black, or custom veneers by Jim Salk
Tweeter RAAL 64-10 OEM
Midrange Tectonic Balanced Mode Radiator 2.5"
Woofer Scan Speak 8545-01 7"
Frequency Response 30 Hz - 20kHz (+ / - 2db) Anechoic
Sensitivity 84.5 dB (dB/2.83v/1M)
Box Alignment Bass Reflex
Dimensions 22" H x 9" W x 13.5" D
Weight 38 lbs each
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
True lol. I even turn the highs up more! I listen to a lot of Death Metal.. And Rock ... According to Klipsch, the technology in their home speakers is The same as the imax stuff. Just a much smaller footprint. And just in their high-end reference. I was also told that by a Klipsch rep
Didn't you used to sell them too? Everyone likes what they like, as it should be. I like death metal occasionally too, but I listen to a lot of everything. I have like 5 or 6 different sets of speakers right now and listen to different ones for different things.
 
JOHN FICKEL

JOHN FICKEL

Senior Audioholic
Yes, I worked for a Klipsch dealer.. I also sold Mcintosh, and have been to the factory in Binghamton New York.
 
JOHN FICKEL

JOHN FICKEL

Senior Audioholic
However, We also sold Golden ear, paradigm, Definitive technology, and Focal... as well as Klipsch.. So I was able to demo all of them.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
I thought I explained it, but perhaps not clearly enough so let me try again.

First of all, when you have floor standing speakers they usually don't occupy any more floor space than bookshelf speakers on stands. In the case of mine, they actually use less space than the stand mount speakers they replaced.

Floor standing speakers have a larger cabinet that becomes part of how they perform. With a larger cabinet the builder can effectively create separate spaces within that have the desired volume and porting matched to each individual driver. Or they can make one big resonant box, or something in between. In general terms, there is no replacement for displacement in automobile engines nor loudspeakers. A typical floor standing speaker can generally achieve lower frequencies than it's bookshelf counterpart.

Now we get to why get a floor standing speaker if you have a subwoofer. I'm a guy who uses the system mostly for music. Much of the music I listen to doesn't have anything below 50 or 60hz and it's really nice to switch the receiver into direct mode, sending the full signal to my speakers and nothing to the sub. The music sounds cleaner, smoother and presents better stereo imaging. I appreciate that sound so much that I will someday get better tower speakers that have much larger drivers and can go even lower.

Not a lot of 2 channel integrated amps or receivers have true bass management to control a subwoofer, even the high end ones. The more I can depend upon a single pair of speakers to present the music, the better it sounds. Until then because I do also listen to some modern music that will shake the walls and watch some movies that so the same, I need a subwoofer and use it.
Floor space saving is the only legitimate argument I see here for using towers over bookshelf speakers. If your space is really tight, yes, tower speakers have less of a footprint.

However, regarding separate spaces within the cabinet, that is not something that isn't being done with bookshelf speakers. Lots of higher end bookshelf speakers have separate compartments for their drivers. Plus, panel resonance is much easier to control in bookshelf speakers since the cabinet panels are much smaller. Furthermore, regarding 'no replacement for displacement', a bookshelf speaker and a decent sub will have much more displacement than the tower equivalent of the bookshelf speaker. A tower speaker might have more headroom in the mids, if it is a three-way speaker, but the limits of such a speaker is more likely going to be in the lows, and a reasonably good sub will almost always provide superior bass performance over a tower speaker, unless that tower speaker is very large and expensive. If you are listening so loud that dynamic range in the mids become a problem for your bookshelf speaker, chances are your tower speaker equivalent will not be up to the task either.

Also, the best placement for a speaker's bass response in-room isn't always going to be the same place as the upper frequency bands, in fact, it rarely is. For the best performance, a modular setup is needed so that the subs can get a flat response at the listening position and the upper bands go with the loudspeaker's recommended placement. You can not just plop the bass speakers arbitrarily in room and expect a good response, as is the case with tower speakers. Multiple subs using careful placement will always provide a substantially better sound, doesn't matter if you are listening to two-channel, or surround sound, or mono-aural radio dramas from the 1940s.

As for not a lot of two-channel integrateds or receivers not having bass management, that is a argument against the electronics not having bass management, not an argument for tower speakers. Such designs decisions are antiquated notions of stubborn old audiophiles. I am arguing for a better sound, not catering or compromising for a lesser bass sound. And this even goes for music tastes which do not have content below 60 Hz, because the Schroeder frequency is very likely to be well above that point.
 

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