Speaker Quest By Eddie

[haraldo]

I lost count how many times WmAx disproved all your "arguments". For your sake, give it a rest, you will NEVER win.
SheepStar

OK. we'll never agree anyways........ For the record I don't want to win anything. I just believe that some speakers are genuinely better than others.
Anybody that's ever listened to a Duntech studio monitor would probably agree.......
And it beats me why it's OK for a speaker to have something like a 720 degree phase shift within it's passband.......

 

[Sheep]

OK. we'll never agree anyways........

I coulda' swore your post said "I believe WmAx to be incorrect"

Must be some form of magic, like how a speakers that measures like **** isn't infact ****.

SheepStar

 

[Sheep]

OK. we'll never agree anyways........ For the record I don't want to win anything. I just believe that some speakers are genuinely better than others.
Anybody that's ever listened to a Duntech studio monitor would probably agree.......
And it beats me why it's OK for a speaker to have something like a 720 degree phase shift within it's passband.......

Well, what ever you like!

SheepStar

 

[WmAx]

Do you listen with your ears or do you only rely on the "scientific" journals?

These are two totally different issues. This is not about what I listen to or my personal hearing - I can be a deaf man - it matters not since I am discussing here based only on credibe research data - not my subjective listening impressions.

Why do you say that No one can successfully refute the data in the journals so far, what's the evidence behind this?
I believe you are wrong here, I have provided the backgrounder for that....... A number of people can genuinely claim your findings to be incorrect.

Do you have no knowledge of how a journal such as the JAES operates? A great level of debate persists around the information that makes it to publication in this journal - a journal that requires a very heavy burden of evidence collected under carefully controlled conditions - in order to be considered. The current accepted standards(as reflected in the research I referenced) have not been shown with contradictory conclusions with research up to the same standard as the establishing research by those claiming it is not accurate. If the test of which you refer was up to a sufficient scientific/statistical standard of control/experiment, then it should be submitted for review/consideration to the JAES, and see if it can make it through the process and replace and/or revise the current accepted standard(s) in regards to this subject. But as it stands, I can only assume tentatively, that the research you refer to is not up to the required standards.

Why do people stubbornly say that a serious phase shift is of no relevance whatsoeever.
While it's over and over and over again claimed that phase shifts is one of the reasons about what ruins the fidelity of digital CD playback. The brickwall filter of a CD player ruins everything, while a serious phase shift is perfectly fine with a speaker.

It is readily apparent from this and other statement you have made that you have no knowledge of the perceptual research in regards to human audibility. Your assumption of CD playback is erroneous, as is your statements in regards to other things in this thread so far.

-Chris

 

[fired up]

Greetings,

Hope everyone had a great weekend and enjoyable Holiday to those who celebrate Easter! WOW! That was an intense discussion (and educational) from the respondents.

After speaking with family, friends, forum members, PM's and emails I made the correct choice in canceling the Acoustic Zen package deal order. The speaker cables were astronomically expensive. That is money that should be placed elsewhere.

I have a few questions for the community:

Is it alright to mix different speaker designs in a Home Theater system? For instance, Transmission Line vs. another design type.

Is it okay to put the Center Channel speaker inside a beautiful piece of furniture or is this an audio no-no?

My brother-in-law just updated his HT and offered me a pair of ADVENT LAUREATE floorstanders for free. This is all I could find on the web:
"Summary:
This review is for a pair of ADVENT LAUREATE. For their price point, they are solid performers: tight and satisfying bass, convincing middles and crisp highs. Good soundstage and accuracy. Outstanding imaging, especially for the money. At home w/classical music or rock. Warm and detailed sound, especially reproducing voices. Specifications: Frequency Response: 42Hz to 23kHz Impedance {nominal): 6=8 ohms Power Requirements: 10-150 Watts RMS Sensitivity (2.83 Volts @ 1meter): 90 dB Crossover Frequency: 3kHz Freq.Range: Low 34Hz-8dB, High: 23kHz-3dB Tweeter: 1" Ferrofluid parabolic soft dome Woofers: 2x6.5" high excurs. aluminum coil Cabinet size: H: 32.75", D: 12", W: 9" Weight: 35 Lbs each Finish: Solid pecan top & face; fiberboard

I am thinking of using them for the rear surrounds. They still sound great and he took excellent care of them.

I still have the opportunity to purchase just the Acoustic Zen Adagio Floorstanding Speakers that are Transmission Line for a great deal.

My wife is concerned that the SVS PB ULTRA 13 is too big and wants a smaller subwoofer. I just read an ad where Velodyne makes a sub thats 9 1/2" squared and is supposed to be awesome for what it is.

Here is my final thoughts and where I need the most help. I want a surround sound 5.1 speaker system for HT use. However, the majority of the time it will be used for 2 channel stereo listening to solo classical piano, orchestral pieces, concertos, jazz piano, jazz music, classic rock and the occasional edgier Techno or Heavy Metal for the kids.

I have never been a fan of B&W speakers - sorry. Further, standmounted monitors/speakers are not a good idea in my house because I have 2 overly active twin 7 year old boys who are always play-fighting and real-fighting. Stand Mounts are out. Co-op does not allow in-wall or ceiling mounted speakers.

Once again - room is 20' x 14' with 8' ceilings and an open floor plan with large archways separating rooms. Carpeting throughout. No mirrors or reflective surfaces. Motorized Room Darkening Shades.

Please help put together a speaker system for me and my family.

Thanks,

Eddie

 

[jaxvon]

Have you ever thought of the Linkwitz Orion++? It is a fairly high fidelity loudspeaker - certainly better than most - and it is available as a DIY kit of varying degrees of difficulty, as well as totally finished. Read about it here:

http://linkwitzlab.com/

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

My brother-in-law just updated his HT and offered me a pair of ADVENT LAUREATE floorstanders for free.

Please, do NOT cancel this.

Free is good, very good.

I think using them for your surround speakers would be fine.

Just put most of your money into the front 3 speakers - it is generally recommended to use the same size drivers and material for the front 3 speakers. Using the same brand for your front 3 is a good idea.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Have you ever thought of the Linkwitz Orion++? It is a fairly high fidelity loudspeaker - certainly better than most - and it is available as a DIY kit of varying degrees of difficulty, as well as totally finished. Read about it here:

http://linkwitzlab.com/

The Audio Critic guy totally love these speakers.

They are Bi-polar speakers, right?

And they use one 60-watt amp for each speaker driver?

I'm sure that's enough power.

However, I would like to see something like 200 watts for the subwoofer driver, instead of only 60 watts.

 

[fired up]

AcuDefTechGuy ,

He is bringing them "Advent Laureate" over next weekend for me. From what he told me they are great with music. He just went REALLY, REALLY High End with his new system - over $60,000K.

The LINKWITZ ORION++ are not for me as a kit. I'm disabled. No heavy lifting or building. Sorry.

Eddie

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

AcuDefTechGuy ,

He is bringing them "Advent Laureate" over next weekend for me. From what he told me they are great with music. He just went REALLY, REALLY High End with his new system - over $60,000K.

The LINKWITZ ORION++ are not for me as a kit. I'm disabled. No heavy lifting or building. Sorry.

Eddie

I think you can get those Orions fully assembled for $8K/pr.

Too much for me.

Surround speakers are easy to do. I think those Advent speakers will do.

 

[Swerd]

Is it alright to mix different speaker designs in a Home Theater system? For instance, Transmission Line vs. another design type.

Yes, mixing is OK. When people advise you to choose similar sounding speakers, they mean speakers with similar or identical timbre. Human hearing is most sensitive to the midrange and upper midranges. Changes in sound due to different bass designs (transmission lines vs. other more conventional bass alignments such as reflex or sealed) while important, are much less important in regard to perceived differences in timbre. Do not worry about mixing TL main speakers with a center speaker that is not TL as long as the midrange and treble are the same.

Is it okay to put the Center Channel speaker inside a beautiful piece of furniture or is this an audio no-no?

Avoid it if you can. Sometimes, this isn't possible. Putting a speaker inside a larger cabinet can reinforce the bass too much, and make male voices sound too boomy.

Advent Laureates for the rear surrounds?

Why not? They're free. Rear speakers in 5.1 system are the most forgiving choice to make. The fronts are far more important.

I still have the opportunity to purchase just the Acoustic Zen Adagio Floorstanding Speakers that are Transmission Line for a great deal.

At what price?

Here is my final thoughts and where I need the most help. I want a surround sound 5.1 speaker system for HT use. However, the majority of the time it will be used for 2 channel stereo listening to solo classical piano, orchestral pieces, concertos, jazz piano, jazz music, classic rock and the occasional edgier Techno or Heavy Metal for the kids.

Eddie

I read in your original post how you are...

a classically trained musician. My twins study classical piano at a prestigious Music Conservatory in NY and have been playing for 3 years. I have 2 digital pianos in my home, plus one Yamaha acoustic upright piano and one Steinway Grand piano (thankfully all undamaged). The instruments have now been moved to a dedicated Music Rehearsal Room. I also own several electric guitars, basses, amps, and drums.

Now for the challenge. I wish to purchase speakers that are not overly bright or Ultra- revealing. My preference is for a more neutral relaxed system that will be utilized for extended listening sessions. Solo Piano music from the Classical, Romantic and Modern epochs are my preferred choices for music. Think Vladimir Horowitz, Annie Fischer, Earl Wild, Van Cliburn, Marc-Andre Hamelin, Claudio Arrau, as pianists and Chopin, Schumann, Schubert, Beethoven, Mozart, Rachmaninoff, Scriabin, Debussy, Ravel, Gershwin and Franck as composers. My wife and I also enjoy Orchestral Music, Piano and Violin concertos, and works for Bassoon, Clarinet, etc.

For what it is worth, the designer of the Salk SongTowers, Dennis Murphy, is also a classically trained musician. He plays violin and piano, and listens almost exclusively to classical music. He owns a Bosendorfer (If I recall) grand piano. I believe he understands, better than most, exactly what you are looking for in a speaker, and delivers just that in his designs. Look for Jim Salk's contact info on the Salk web site and call or email him and tell him exactly what you are telling us. You can also email Dennis Murphy directly. Look for the contact info on his web page. Tell him Richard sent you.

 

[fired up]

Thanks for the Salk link. They seem similar to the Acoustic Zen Adagios I was interested in. I can't tell if the CC is rear ported or sealed in the Salk design.

 

[Swerd]

Thanks for the Salk link. They seem similar to the Acoustic Zen Adagios I was interested in. I can't tell if the CC is rear ported or sealed in the Salk design.

The SongCenter speaker can be made ported or sealed - your choice. Tell Jim Salk what you think you need.

Yes, both the SongTower and the Adagios look similar in photos and general design. I haven't heard the Adagios so I can't say whether they sound similar or not.

The SongTowers cost less, and for additional cost (about $500 more than the standard finishes) you can order just about any custom veneer or finish you want. Jim Salk specializes in custom finishes for speakers and does remarkable work. I've personally never seen better finishes in any other speaker.

 

[haraldo]

You said that you auditioned some AudoPhysic speakers. I have listened to quite a few models ranging from Spark, to Virgo and Avanti (old models)
From what I know there are also quite a few musicians that find them well performing....

Now all the models are out in new improved versions, and the new Virgo and Avanti have an improved look. Whether they are improved sonically, I don't know... But they are certainly fast speakers. In my opinion, these perform well but you need good amplification. I never auditioned them at low volume levels but I have heard claims that they don't really perform that well if you're not cranking up the volume, so be aware......

Perhaps it's an idea with a look at the new Virgo or Scorpio?

Regards

Harald N

 

[gus6464]

Check out ProAc as well as they might fit the bill in what you are looking for.

 

[fired up]

Thanks for the Salk and ProAc suggestions!

Gus - Eagerly awaiting my Panasonic z800U - I had PM'd you about it.

Eddie

 

[gus6464]

Thanks for the Salk and ProAc suggestions!

Gus - Eagerly awaiting my Panasonic z800U - I had PM'd you about it.

Eddie

Ohh you already ordered the 800U? I got to see the new 85 series at Fry's the other day and I was very impressed. Black levels have improved quite a bit from last year's models.

 

[fired up]

haraldo:

I am going to see if they have the bigger deeper models of Audio Physic available for demo next week.

Thanks for the ideas!

Eddie

 

[haraldo]

haraldo:

I am going to see if they have the bigger deeper models of Audio Physic available for demo next week.

Thanks for the ideas!

Eddie

Actually, when I auditioned the Audio Physics, some of the better sounding ones were the smaller ones, like Spark (previous iteration)

Now, the New Tempo really looks like something particular, with much of the technology from the larger products... Like ACD Active Cone Damping... The sparks doesn't have that....

But I really believe the New Virgo may be something out of this world. If you buy Virgo, you'll probably never ever look back....
Match'em with great sub's and that's it
The new Virgo also contains the small incredibly fast drivers that Audio Physic is so famous about

However, you really can't run em with AV receivers, you really need some more decent amplification, sounds like dedicated power amps....
You are a music guy and in my ears that means you shouldn't buy an AV receiver as your primary electronics source. (That's just my opinion though)
Keep it simple......

Just to be fair, I haven't had the time to audition the new Audio Physic range, but I know the previous one and they're all spectacular with the right amplification......

-H

 

[Penny]

I also own another pair of tower speakers from LSAgroup; formerly DK. For the money ($2500) nothing even sniffs 'em. Here's a link:

http://www.thelsagroup.com/