...Sounds like I may be in the market for new main speakers!

Happy Joe

Happy Joe

Audioholic
I think that I blew out the r700's mid-ranges, Thursday night;
I'll see if I can get some new drivers from POLK and determine the cost...
If its not a good fit;
I've been liking my SVS ultra center channel speaker; and the SVS "unconditional warranty' is looking very good, at the moment.
I could use some other recommendations in the $1000 per speaker range...

Was getting into some moderate level listening at around half volume and put on Journey's greatest hits; ... instant distortion. Turned it down but, it seems, the damage is significant/something gave way..

I won't be able to contact Polk (potentially for new r700 driver costs) until Monday.
.. IF they won't help; its not that big of a deal (I didn't like the sound of the tweeters any way; sour grapes)...

Amazingly the rebuilt NHT's are working fine...

Its unexpected; but not a wold ending disaster...

Enjoy!
 
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DigitalDawn

DigitalDawn

Senior Audioholic
Take a look at Triad.

Triad is a Portland-based company that hand builds speakers in just about every configuration you can imagine. They will even color match the speakers and grills to match the paint on your walls. In addition to InRoom speakers, Triad has In-Wall, OnWall and angled InCeiling speakers and subwoofers that work amazingly well for rooms in which you have no floor space, or when you wish to hide the speakers from view. The company has speakers in many different price ranges, starting at $300 per speaker.

While not a household name, Triad is a favorite of custom installers and has won numerous industry awards. The company is also a development partner for Dolby, helping to design speaker systems for immersive audio. Most recently, Triad Gold Monitor speakers won Best of Show at the 2019 CEDIA Expo in Denver. How Triad's Are Built:

In your price range I would look at the Triad Silver Series. https://www.snapav.com/wcsstore/ExtendedSitesCatalogAssetStore/attachments/documents/C4/triad-silver-lcrs-triad-data-sheet-rev-b.pdf#page=1&zoom=auto,-13,792

Regards,
Dawn
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
The R700 were bought new? It blew from moderate listening level?

Ouch. Seems defective. I assume warranty expired?

Cost of one driver should be a lot less expensive than buying new speakers. :D
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
How do you define "half" volume? What is the overall system setup?
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
I think that I blew out the r700's mid-ranges, Thursday night;
I'll see if I can get some new drivers from POLK and determine the cost...
If its not a good fit;
I've been liking my SVS ultra center channel speaker; and the SVS "unconditional warranty' is looking very good, at the moment.
I could use some other recommendations in the $1000 per speaker range...

Was getting into some moderate level listening at around half volume and put on Journey's greatest hits; ... instant distortion. Turned it down but, it seems, the damage is significant/something gave way..

I won't be able to contact Polk (potentially for new r700 driver costs) until Monday.
.. IF they won't help; its not that big of a deal (I didn't like the sound of the tweeters any way; sour grapes)...

Amazingly the rebuilt NHT's are working fine...

Its unexpected; but not a wold ending disaster...

Enjoy!
I don't believe that you were not playing these speakers "ear bleeding" loud. You blew both mids, that are 6.5" mids. Crossover from the bass driver is 350 Hz, which is on the low side, but not really out of bounds. Not liking the tweeter seems like nonsense, there is nothing in Shady's measurements that suggests a problem with the tweeters.
The chance of having two defective tweeters is so remote you can forget it.
So, you played those speakers far too loud. If you are going to play that loud, you are going to require some very expensive speakers with two robust mids in MTM configuration, or have a really exotic speaker with high powered mid dome tweeters. There are hardly any of these on the market, essentially only ATC and PCM. The latter use Volt dome mids.
 
Kingnoob

Kingnoob

Audioholic Samurai
I think that I blew out the r700's mid-ranges, Thursday night;
I'll see if I can get some new drivers from POLK and determine the cost...
If its not a good fit;
I've been liking my SVS ultra center channel speaker; and the SVS "unconditional warranty' is looking very good, at the moment.
I could use some other recommendations in the $1000 per speaker range...

Was getting into some moderate level listening at around half volume and put on Journey's greatest hits; ... instant distortion. Turned it down but, it seems, the damage is significant/something gave way..

I won't be able to contact Polk (potentially for new r700 driver costs) until Monday.
.. IF they won't help; its not that big of a deal (I didn't like the sound of the tweeters any way; sour grapes)...

Amazingly the rebuilt NHT's are working fine...

Its unexpected; but not a wold ending disaster...

Enjoy!
Was it a cd, or something?
Without using a spl meter of some sort what is moderate level listening?
 
Happy Joe

Happy Joe

Audioholic
The R700 were bought new? It blew from moderate listening level?

Ouch. Seems defective. I assume warranty expired?

Cost of one driver should be a lot less expensive than buying new speakers. :D
New? Yep; but purchased from Amazon (not an authorized dealer) so the warranty is iffy, IMO.
I typically give junk equipment 2, maybe 3 repairs before scraping it.... we will find out tomorrow, Polk is closed on holidays and weekends...

A shame; really, last Thursday (prior to failure) I was able to achieve the; mind, body, equipment state of "pure music enjoyment" (where the equipment sound seems to disappear... a first, for this equipment, since I lost the NHT's to a mid-range failure a bit more than a year ago...

Enjoy!
 
Happy Joe

Happy Joe

Audioholic
How do you define "half" volume? What is the overall system setup?
I have a simple definition half volume is when the avr is set to, or indicates; 50% of the available volume level...I rarely exceeed 35 to 45% on the level indicators,
Main speakers 300 watt rated Polk r700s
AVR; Denon x3800h set to run flat with no general equalization.
Front auxiliary power amp running the L & R mains only), running from the pre-outs; Crown XLI800 (class A-B) set to a gain of roughly 66% (very rough estimation, from the gain control settings). Note; the Crown has never indicated clipping.... It's set and forget.
Center; SVS ULTRA, set to a boost of 2.5 db.
Left and Right surrounds, each (stacked pair of Polk es35 mid range speakers; I think these were set to -3 db.)
Rear surrounds NHT 2.5 I speakers; Rebuilt with non NHT mid-ranges and tweeters. set to a boost of 2.5 db.
No height surrounds or sub woofers.

Enjoy!
 
Happy Joe

Happy Joe

Audioholic
I don't believe that you were not playing these speakers "ear bleeding" loud. You blew both mids, that are 6.5" mids. Crossover from the bass driver is 350 Hz, which is on the low side, but not really out of bounds. Not liking the tweeter seems like nonsense, there is nothing in Shady's measurements that suggests a problem with the tweeters.
The chance of having two defective tweeters is so remote you can forget it.
So, you played those speakers far too loud. If you are going to play that loud, you are going to require some very expensive speakers with two robust mids in MTM configuration, or have a really exotic speaker with high powered mid dome tweeters. There are hardly any of these on the market, essentially only ATC and PCM. The latter use Volt dome mids.
None the less; at least one mid blew (right side main; male vocals now have a buzz).

Measurements are what they are. However, when listening to just the r700s the tweeters have a harsh sound, to my ear, once I got used to them, and some times seem to emit high frequency artifacts (pips, blips).
When listening with the SVS ultra center the high end has become less disturbing, more civilized. I like the diamond coated dome tweeter. Until I got the SVS center I was on the verge of ordering some parts express titanium domes (cheap) to see if they would improve the sound when replacing the polk ring tweeters. (I do have some, quite nice, peerless 3/4 inch domes in stock, so replacement of those ring tweeters is not totaly, off the table).

I never try to destroy my hearing with excessively loud music (and it would disturb the neighbors).
While the Journey CD was playing: the sound became distorted; very disturbing; I immediately reduced the volume.
I did some light listening, yesterday, and the buzz was less detectable. so I am guessing/hoping that I only lost one mid-range and that "in the moment ' it sounded worse than it is.

While I do like the sound of multiple dome mid-ranges and/or 8 inch mid-ranges. I do them from a sonic stand point not from a power handling/level desire. ( You seem to be confusing me with those "Louder is better" folks). ...Currently, I'm looking at a project with with ribbon tweeters or/and dipole mid-ranges (not known for power handling); for side surrounds.

Enjoy!
 
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Happy Joe

Happy Joe

Audioholic
Was it a cd, or something?
Without using a spl meter of some sort what is moderate level listening?
Yes, It was a CD; I gave up trying to get good sound from vinyl back in the early 1980's, right after becoming an early adopter of CD's ("buy a player and get 50 free CD"s").

... I class moderate listening levels as levels where you can make yourself understood when talking over the music in a normal voice; note; clean sound is much easier to talk over, distorted sound may be quieter but can be much harder to talk/yell over.

Enjoy!
 
Last edited:
Kingnoob

Kingnoob

Audioholic Samurai
I don't believe that you were not playing these speakers "ear bleeding" loud. You blew both mids, that are 6.5" mids. Crossover from the bass driver is 350 Hz, which is on the low side, but not really out of bounds. Not liking the tweeter seems like nonsense, there is nothing in Shady's measurements that suggests a problem with the tweeters.
The chance of having two defective tweeters is so remote you can forget it.
So, you played those speakers far too loud. If you are going to play that loud, you are going to require some very expensive speakers with two robust mids in MTM configuration, or have a really exotic speaker with high powered mid dome tweeters. There are hardly any of these on the market, essentially only ATC and PCM. The latter use Volt dome mids.
Something blew the mids in his nht also. Unless it’s possible they broke from old age?
Yes, It was a CD; I gave up trying to get good sound from vinyl back in the early 1980's, right after becoming an early adopter of CD's ("buy a player and get 50 free CD"s").

... I class moderate listening levels as levels where you can make yourself understood when talking over the music in a normal voice; note; clean sound is much easier to talk over, distorted sound may be quieter but can be much harder to talk/yell over.

Enjoy!
I don’t know what a good spl meter is but maybe you should measure it sometime. I’m sure someone here knows if you ask.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I have a simple definition half volume is when the avr is set to, or indicates; 50% of the available volume level...I rarely exceeed 35 to 45% on the level indicators,
Main speakers 300 watt rated Polk r700s
AVR; Denon x3800h set to run flat with no general equalization.
Front auxiliary power amp running the L & R mains only), running from the pre-outs; Crown XLI800 (class A-B) set to a gain of roughly 66% (very rough estimation, from the gain control settings). Note; the Crown has never indicated clipping.... It's set and forget.
Center; SVS ULTRA, set to a boost of 2.5 db.
Left and Right surrounds, each (stacked pair of Polk es35 mid range speakers; I think these were set to -3 db.)
Rear surrounds NHT 2.5 I speakers; Rebuilt with non NHT mid-ranges and tweeters. set to a boost of 2.5 db.
No height surrounds or sub woofers.

Enjoy!
Except that isn't "half". You have a dB based volume scale, not linear (it's logarithmic). Every change of 3 dB on your volume readout represents a doubling of power (or halving the power depending which way you're going on the volume scale). So if you normally max out at "50" on the absolute scale, that's about 30dB below reference level if you calibrated the volume. If you're using the relative scale halfway would be about "-50" (still about 30dB below reference level).

What do you mean you set the avr to flat? You used Audyssey only for setting levels/delays?
 
Happy Joe

Happy Joe

Audioholic
Something blew the mids in his nht also. Unless it’s possible they broke from old age?

I don’t know what a good spl meter is but maybe you should measure it sometime. I’m sure someone here knows if you ask.
Yes; (sigh), here is the NHT blowout story; several years ago I noted that sony avrs had a "new" room equalization program called Audessy. I ordered one, to try it out.
After following all of the instructions, microphone positioning, etc, I initiated the Audessy routine the sony avr cranked itself up to max and blasted away (talk about ear bleeding levels, it even scared the cat...) then told me that it could not detect the NHT speakers; investigation found that the mid-ranges had been blown out: after reconnecting the Technics (I noted the typical vocal buzz , characteristic of blown speakers; the cones of the drivers also, now, showed some distortion). I started investigating fixes and found that replacement mid-range drivers for the NHTs'were nearly impossible to get. so I started looking at non stock fixes/workarounds.
I returned the sony AVR with another vow to Never again purchase sony.
I wondered at the time why the avr apartently blew out my speakers on purpose, but dismissed the thought as paranoid. Yes, the NHTs were old and this could have been a contributor but in my experience it was never and is still not a good idea to crank the level to its higest setting and instantly blast the speakers. After much research and several driver trials I got the NHT's (kind of) working again and they still are ('though now I am paranoid about level control); yet another reason to doubt that I blasted the Polks.

I realize that there are some folks that are addicted to Measurements. However I, personally have found that measurements are mostly good for laboratory purposes and technical comparisons and do not measure many subjective thing that, also are important... I had a Realistic spl meter, decades ago and, other than curiosity, found little use for it.

Too loud is basically obvious... find a meter that can measure tweeter harshness (the klipshes and the polks both exibit ithis so it should be easy) Publication of such a thing would IMO result in fewer poor purchases (at least by me). Note; some reviewers of Klipsch speakers have noted that they can sound harsh...(my fault fot not believing them) and their subjective opinions without measurements.
I will continue to select speakers based on my ears, in conjunction with reponse curves. Although, now, I will put less faith in supposed brand names and reviewers' opinions.

Knowledge is expensive and I am, slowly, becoming smarter.

IMO trying to argue the definition of a subjective "Half volume" is a waste of effort; the speaker is blown and the bird has flown...

All that remains are recovery/replacement decisions and implementation... Belief does not enter into it; never did.

Enjoy!
 
Happy Joe

Happy Joe

Audioholic
Except that isn't "half". You have a dB based volume scale, not linear (it's logarithmic). Every change of 3 dB on your volume readout represents a doubling of power (or halving the power depending which way you're going on the volume scale). So if you normally max out at "50" on the absolute scale, that's about 30dB below reference level if you calibrated the volume. If you're using the relative scale halfway would be about "-50" (still about 30dB below reference level).

What do you mean you set the avr to flat? You used Audyssey only for setting levels/delays?
"Except that isn't "half" ...I dont care. if it shows about half on the level display or knob; its about half. Argue about it with Denon if you want.

"Flat" refers to no user selected frequency related equalization...
I gave away the o'scope decades ago so I have implemented no delays at this time; and unless something becomes obvious when listening, I don't intend to.

Enjoy!
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Yes; (sigh), here is the NHT blowout story...
Wow. So now you've blown a total of 2 different speakers in the last few years?

I've owned many speakers in the last 30+ years, and I've never blown a single speaker.

So you might just get a speaker that offers unconditional repairs. :D
 
Kingnoob

Kingnoob

Audioholic Samurai
Yes; (sigh), here is the NHT blowout story; several years ago I noted that sony avrs had a "new" room equalization program called Audessy. I ordered one, to try it out.
After following all of the instructions, microphone positioning, etc, I initiated the Audessy routine the sony avr cranked itself up to max and blasted away (talk about ear bleeding levels, it even scared the cat...) then told me that it could not detect the NHT speakers; investigation found that the mid-ranges had been blown out: after reconnecting the Technics (I noted the typical vocal buzz , characteristic of blown speakers; the cones of the drivers also, now, showed some distortion). I started investigating fixes and found that replacement mid-range drivers for the NHTs'were nearly impossible to get. so I started looking at non stock fixes/workarounds.
I returned the sony AVR with another vow to Never again purchase sony.
I wondered at the time why the avr apartently blew out my speakers on purpose, but dismissed the thought as paranoid. Yes, the NHTs were old and this could have been a contributor but in my experience it was never and is still not a good idea to crank the level to its higest setting and instantly blast the speakers. After much research and several driver trials I got the NHT's (kind of) working again and they still are ('though now I am paranoid about level control); yet another reason to doubt that I blasted the Polks.

I realize that there are some folks that are addicted to Measurements. However I, personally have found that measurements are mostly good for laboratory purposes and technical comparisons and do not measure many subjective thing that, also are important... I had a Realistic spl meter, decades ago and, other than curiosity, found little use for it.

Too loud is basically obvious... find a meter that can measure tweeter harshness (the klipshes and the polks both exibit ithis so it should be easy) Publication of such a thing would IMO result in fewer poor purchases (at least by me). Note; some reviewers of Klipsch speakers have noted that they can sound harsh...(my fault fot not believing them) and their subjective opinions without measurements.
I will continue to select speakers based on my ears, in conjunction with reponse curves. Although, now, I will put less faith in supposed brand names and reviewers' opinions.

Knowledge is expensive and I am, slowly, becoming smarter.

IMO trying to argue the definition of a subjective "Half volume" is a waste of effort; the speaker is blown and the bird has flown...

All that remains are recovery/replacement decisions and implementation... Belief does not enter into it; never did.

Enjoy!
Ouch defective sony avr?
I'm sure that if OP was to get a pair of those, he would be blowing them within a few days!
I bet these get loud but I haven’t heard them they aren’t high end enough probably.
 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Spartan
Yes; (sigh), here is the NHT blowout story; several years ago I noted that sony avrs had a "new" room equalization program called Audessy. I ordered one, to try it out.
After following all of the instructions, microphone positioning, etc, I initiated the Audessy routine the sony avr cranked itself up to max and blasted away (talk about ear bleeding levels, it even scared the cat...) then told me that it could not detect the NHT speakers; investigation found that the mid-ranges had been blown out: after reconnecting the Technics (I noted the typical vocal buzz , characteristic of blown speakers; the cones of the drivers also, now, showed some distortion). I started investigating fixes and found that replacement mid-range drivers for the NHTs'were nearly impossible to get. so I started looking at non stock fixes/workarounds.
I returned the sony AVR with another vow to Never again purchase sony.
I wondered at the time why the avr apartently blew out my speakers on purpose, but dismissed the thought as paranoid. Yes, the NHTs were old and this could have been a contributor but in my experience it was never and is still not a good idea to crank the level to its higest setting and instantly blast the speakers. After much research and several driver trials I got the NHT's (kind of) working again and they still are ('though now I am paranoid about level control); yet another reason to doubt that I blasted the Polks.

I realize that there are some folks that are addicted to Measurements. However I, personally have found that measurements are mostly good for laboratory purposes and technical comparisons and do not measure many subjective thing that, also are important... I had a Realistic spl meter, decades ago and, other than curiosity, found little use for it.

Too loud is basically obvious... find a meter that can measure tweeter harshness (the klipshes and the polks both exibit ithis so it should be easy) Publication of such a thing would IMO result in fewer poor purchases (at least by me). Note; some reviewers of Klipsch speakers have noted that they can sound harsh...(my fault fot not believing them) and their subjective opinions without measurements.
I will continue to select speakers based on my ears, in conjunction with reponse curves. Although, now, I will put less faith in supposed brand names and reviewers' opinions.

Knowledge is expensive and I am, slowly, becoming smarter.

IMO trying to argue the definition of a subjective "Half volume" is a waste of effort; the speaker is blown and the bird has flown...

All that remains are recovery/replacement decisions and implementation... Belief does not enter into it; never did.

Enjoy!
Are you sure it was a Sony AVR, I've never known them to have anything but their own proprietary room.EQ?
 
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