Sound from PC games cutting out

[Hi Ho]

I Hadn't played a PC game on my theater system for a while becasue a USB cable I was using was broken. Now I have a new one and now I have a new problem.

The sound cuts out during loud passages. If I turn the volume down on my receiver it doesn't cut out as often but it still happens. I have an HT Omega Striker 7.1 which has Dolby Digital Live and DTS Interactive encoding. It is connected to my Yamaha RX-V2700 via coax.

I tried to play Bad Company 2 and it simply didn't work.

Crysis was a little better but the explosions, which are the best I've heard in any game, were cut out.

As you can see in the first video, when the sound cuts out, the receiver seems to lose the digital signal. The display jumps between DTS and ProLogic for a split second.

I play movies at a significantly higher volume without problems. I have tried both DTS Interactive and Dolby Digital Live with the same results.

 

[Hi Ho]

I'm thinking I should have put this in the General A/V or HTCP forum.

 

[Serj22]

How are you outputting sound on your PC? There is a stupid setting menu in the audio menu that allows you to select "loudness equalization" and it tends to make everything the same volume, or turn loud things down, and it makes your receiver freak out, at least, that's what happens to me. It does it weather it's a digital, or analog out. Right click the speaker in the lower right of the task bar. Click "Open volume mixer" click the picture of the device it's outputting through. Click the "Enhancement" tab. Uncheck "loudness equalization" if it is checked and any other settings on that menu. Then hit Apply.

If that was not the problem, I'd assume it's something further into the computer or the cable connecting the PC to the receiver.

 

[TLS Guy]

I agree with the above poster. Somewhere a level is too high and you are running out of bits, and protection is cutting in to stop speaker busting loud pops.

If you hear a digital system that runs out of bits, it can spell ruin to speakers, so I suspect your receiver has some sort of protection mode to stop this.

 

[Hi Ho]

I remember now that I basically had this exact problem a while back with music. I completely forgot about it:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61264&

This is obviously the same thing. I will experiment with the output levels on the sound card and see if that makes any difference. None of the "enhancments" are active. I never turn those on.

 

[Hi Ho]

I tried changing the volume output levels in three places. There are individual controls for each channel in my sound card drivers. Changing those levels seemed to have no effect on the output level or the drop-out problem. There is also an S/PDIF output level control and changing that did not help. I even tried turning down the sound in the game itself. All that did was make it quieter and when I turned the volume up on the receiver to compensate the drop-out problem persisted.

I don't understand why the game sound would be too much to handle while movies pose no problem. When I use my headphones (run through a small mixer) I have no problems with the sound dropping out.

I might try recording the 2 channel PCM output of the game with my FireStudio and see if it's obviously running out of headroom.

 

[TLS Guy]

I even tried turning down the sound in the game itself. All that did was make it quieter and when I turned the volume up on the receiver to compensate the drop-out problem persisted.

That tells me your receiver is on the way out.

I don't understand why the game sound would be too much to handle while movies pose no problem. When I use my headphones (run through a small mixer) I have no problems with the sound dropping out.

Obviously the game has grater dynamics, and I suspect especially in the LF region.

 

[Hi Ho]

What would be going out? The receiver is less than four years old. There are no problems with anything but this game. I can't imagine what would be bad.

 

[TLS Guy]

What would be going out? The receiver is less than four years old. There are no problems with anything but this game. I can't imagine what would be bad.

I can't tell exactly what is wrong, but it is after the volume circuit of your receiver.

The key is that when you turned down the input of the receiver the drop outs stopped, however keeping the input level low, and advancing the volume on the receiver brings back the fault, points to a problem in the receiver. In fact it strongly points that way.

The fault may even be in an output device, as if those high level passages, are causing arcing though a device, the smart power supply, will cut voltage instantly for protection, and that would make the decoder light flash.

I really could not go any further than this without a circuit and instruments.

Make sure you don't have any speaker whiskers though.

 

[Hi Ho]

I recorded the output of the soundcard with my FireStudio.



The peaks of +3.6 dB are exactly where the audio cuts out and it does sound distorted in the recording.

Here is the recording in both WAV and MP3. Righ-Click "Save Link As" to download.

WAV: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2683357/Crysis Sound Trim.wav

MP3: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2683357/Crysis Sound.mp3

 

[TLS Guy]

I recorded the output of the soundcard with my FireStudio.



The peaks of +3.6 dB are exactly where the audio cuts out and it does sound distorted in the recording.

Here is the recording in both WAV and MP3. Righ-Click "Save Link As" to download.

WAV: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2683357/Crysis Sound Trim.wav

MP3: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2683357/Crysis Sound.mp3

I can't reproduce the drop outs.

I have never been a gamer. I have to say there is very powerful material on that wav. It really shakes the floor with this rig, and thumps you in the chest.

I can see where it would find a weak link in the reproducing chain. If you want to spin out the remaining life of your receiver, then I would play it at a level where protection is not cutting in.

 

[TLS Guy]

This morning I imported you WAV. into WaveLab, and had a good look at it.

It does not run out of bits, but it goes right to the line.

The energy spectrum is not typical of music. The peak energy band is centered at 86 kHz. There is a dip around 30 Hz, and then a rise to 20 Hz. My spectrum meter does not go below that, but I suspect infrasonic content.

There is a lot of energy above 2.5 kHz also, with a peak of energy around 10 kHz.

I would regard this sort of program as a system destroyer on multiple counts.

The energy is highly likely to spell ultimate death to most modestly priced amp driving most speakers below 8 ohms. If you are using the speakers I tweaked the crossover on, then those speakers are essentially 5 ohm.

The energy spectrum is going to be devastating to not only budget subs, bit most bass mids, as there is huge energy at and above the usual crossover frequencies.

The huge energy above 2.5 kHz and in particular at 10 kHz will spell death for a lot of tweeters.

I suspect that disc and discs like it have degraded your system. Given what I have seen I would expect that.

Personally I think to issue media like that without severe warnings is irresponsible in my view.

I would only play a disc like that at anything above low levels with robust mains, a pre/pro, big amplifiers and a huge exotic sub.

Even on this rig, I would worry about about my tweeters and treat it with a lot of circumspection.

By the way I have now decoded it via my RME FireFace 800 and the decoder in my Marantz AV 8003. There is no dropping out from either decoder. Nor do I hear any distortion, it is very clean.

So, with all the other data, I'm sure your receiver is not up to the mighty task of playing that material at anything but modest volume. Having seen what I have seen, I'm not surprised at all about what you are experiencing.

 

[Hi Ho]

I talked to the repair tech at work and he agrees that the amp is probably overloaded. If the speakers are really around 5ohms that is completely believable. The 2700 has a very robust amp section but I think I have probably found it's limit. I think I can fix it though. I have the speakers set to large. I felt this gave me the best blend between the mains and the sub. I never had problems with any other source material. I'm guessing the the extremely high energy sound from the game in to super low frequencies is causing the amp to go into protection. When I get home from work I will change the mains to small with a 60 h crossover and see what happens. My sub is DIY as well (see signature) and it has no problem reproducing the ultra low frequencies. I have measured the in room response down to 14hz at the -3 db point and it has never shown signs of struggling and always produces tight bass.

 

[TLS Guy]

I talked to the repair tech at work and he agrees that the amp is probably overloaded. If the speakers are really around 5ohms that is completely believable. The 2700 has a very robust amp section but I think I have probably found it's limit. I think I can fix it though. I have the speakers set to large. I felt this gave me the best blend between the mains and the sub. I never had problems with any other source material. I'm guessing the the extremely high energy sound from the game in to super low frequencies is causing the amp to go into protection. When I get home from work I will change the mains to small with a 60 h crossover and see what happens. My sub is DIY as well (see signature) and it has no problem reproducing the ultra low frequencies. I have measured the in room response down to 14hz at the -3 db point and it has never shown signs of struggling and always produces tight bass.

I would set the crossover at 80 or even 100 Hz when playing from a source like that. The energy centered around and above 86 Hz was immense.

I agree about getting better results using a sub to just supplement mains though.

I certainly would not keep sending your receiver into protection if you are not planning to replace it soon.

A guy in the Twin Cities bought a $14,000 set of B & W 802 Ds recently. His teenagers and friends got at them and gamed, and blew out all eight drivers and both crossovers. After seeing that wav. file you sent, I fully understand how this is possible.

Material like that needs to have a severe warning.

Actually I don't think it is possible to build a civilized set of speakers that I would want to listen to and play material like that at high spl. without spending an absolute fortune. Even then I doubt they would sound like those in my signature.

I thought the energy spectrum is that wav. was way out of bounds, and unnecessary. In fact gratuitous violence. Not the sort of thing I would want around here at all.

 

[Hi Ho]

I've been playing with this a bit this afternoon.

I set the speakers to small with the bass sent to the sub only. It still cut out.

I played the game with just the two front speakers and sub active. It still cut out.

I hooked up my Yamaha P5000S pro amp to power the mains and played it with just the mains and sub active. It STILL cut out... with the receiver powering nothing.

I just played back the WAV file and it plays perfectly fine. Loud, clear, no cutting out. It only cuts out while playing the actual game.

Most games do not have sound like this. In fact, this game sets itself apart by having absolutely spectacular sound. Many games have "blah" sound that does not have much impact. In fact, the same night I came across this problem in Crysis I had been playing Modern Warfare 2 for a couple hours and never had a problem. The sound in that game has no impact. Explosions have no depth.

If anything was to be close to the same amount of sound energy I figure it's the depth charge scene in U-571. My system plays that back flawlessly at very high SPL and it does not cut out.

If the drop outs were in the output stage then why does it still drop out when I connect an external amp to power the speakers?

 

[TLS Guy]

I've been playing with this a bit this afternoon.

I set the speakers to small with the bass sent to the sub only. It still cut out.

I played the game with just the two front speakers and sub active. It still cut out.

I hooked up my Yamaha P5000S pro amp to power the mains and played it with just the mains and sub active. It STILL cut out... with the receiver powering nothing.

I just played back the WAV file and it plays perfectly fine. Loud, clear, no cutting out. It only cuts out while playing the actual game.

Most games do not have sound like this. In fact, this game sets itself apart by having absolutely spectacular sound. Many games have "blah" sound that does not have much impact. In fact, the same night I came across this problem in Crysis I had been playing Modern Warfare 2 for a couple hours and never had a problem. The sound in that game has no impact. Explosions have no depth.

If anything was to be close to the same amount of sound energy I figure it's the depth charge scene in U-571. My system plays that back flawlessly at very high SPL and it does not cut out.

If the drop outs were in the output stage then why does it still drop out when I connect an external amp to power the speakers?

It still could. Don't forget the amps are still producing voltage even if producing no power. In fact the voltage will be higher under no load. It is voltage that sparks semiconductor material, once a channel has been opened.

However I have no certainty at all about what the problem is. However common sense tells me that the problem is down stream of the volume control if lowering the volume stops the cut outs.

I'm really puzzled as to why the wav plays but not the game, unless the dynamic is shaved slightly in the conversion.

I agree the reproduction from the exert you send me was spectacular. However I would still regard a diet of that a system abuser, and not what most domestic equipment is designed to take. In my case I would be worried about my tweeters on a diet of that. That energy really requires a horn compression driver. My amps and low end can take it easily, but I would be concerned for any dome or ribbon tweeter with all that energy around 10 kHz.

 

[Hi Ho]

I have narrowed it down to one thing. Here are the steps I took this morning.

1. Hooked up a receiver I brought home from work with no speakers connected and it did not show any signs of the audio dropping out.

2. Disconnected ALL of the speakers except the sub from my receiver and it still cut out.

3. Disconnected the sub. It did NOT cut out.

4. Connected all of the speakers except the sub. It did NOT cut out.

5. Reconnected the sub. It DID cut out.

6. Reduced the output level for the sub in the receiver by 6.5 dB. It did NOT cut out.

7. Compensated for the output reduction by turning up the gain on the sub... It DID cut out.

Now I'm really baffled. The sub is causing the issue, and it depends on the gain level of the sub, which is connected to the receivers sub preout. How on earth would the sub, which has it's own amplifier, cause the receiver to cut out. Is there something wrong with the sub amp?

 

[TLS Guy]

I have narrowed it down to one thing. Here are the steps I took this morning.

1. Hooked up a receiver I brought home from work with no speakers connected and it did not show any signs of the audio dropping out.

2. Disconnected ALL of the speakers except the sub from my receiver and it still cut out.

3. Disconnected the sub. It did NOT cut out.

4. Connected all of the speakers except the sub. It did NOT cut out.

5. Reconnected the sub. It DID cut out.

6. Reduced the output level for the sub in the receiver by 6.5 dB. It did NOT cut out.

7. Compensated for the output reduction by turning up the gain on the sub... It DID cut out.

Now I'm really baffled. The sub is causing the issue, and it depends on the gain level of the sub, which is connected to the receivers sub preout. How on earth would the sub, which has it's own amplifier, cause the receiver to cut out. Is there something wrong with the sub amp?

That is the weirdest fault I have heard of. The only thing I can think of is that sub has a power supply problem and is putting a DC voltage on the RCA connector when stressed, and making your receiver go into protection.

I think I would keep the sub disconnected until checked.

 

[Hi Ho]

I talked to the tech at work and he has never heard of a problem like this. My biggest issue is that the servo amp is made specifically for the driver. I cannot fit the beast in my car. Even if I get it in for the tech to look at it, I don't know what kind of source I could play for him to see the problem. I think I will stick a multimeter on the right input terminal of the sub (receiver is plugged in left) and see if I can get anything abnormal.

 

[TLS Guy]

I talked to the tech at work and he has never heard of a problem like this. My biggest issue is that the servo amp is made specifically for the driver. I cannot fit the beast in my car. Even if I get it in for the tech to look at it, I don't know what kind of source I could play for him to see the problem. I think I will stick a multimeter on the right input terminal of the sub (receiver is plugged in left) and see if I can get anything abnormal.

I agree this is a really strange fault.

However it is a one way analog connection, and the sub can not send an audio signal back to the receiver, but it could send DC or voltage spikes back back, if there is a power supply problem or a failure of an isolating cap in the sub

You won't get anything meaningful unless you have a high impedance amplified meter. A scope would be best.

What I would do the find the problem, is put a Y at an audio generator or sub end.

I would then connect the sub to one limb and the scope to the other. I would watch the scope as I tried reproducing the fault by turning up the generator output, and see if there was a DC offset or voltage spikes that could be precipitating the fault.

If all else failed I would I would replace the generator with the receiver and see what happens when I caused the drop outs.

One simple thing you might do is put a big 50 or 100 mfd cap in series with the hot line between the receiver and sub.

If you could not then cause the drop outs, that would be very good evidence that the sub is presenting DC to the input terminal at load.

If the problem is transient spikes though, the cap would not stop the problem likely. That is why a scope would be best. Also the damping of a meter would likely miss fast transient spikes.

I'm really curious to find the cause of this. It is one for the books. You have to find out what is going on, as I think your receiver could well be at risk connected to that sub.