Sony SSCS5 vs. Wave Crest Audio HVL-1?

[zieglj01]

I will likely buy them the next time the price dips below $140ish on Amazon. I see that they were on sale a couple of times for $108 but I wonder if it's too much to hope for that price coming up again soon...

Keep your eyes on this from Ebay
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-SS-CS5-3-Way-3-Driver-Stereo-Bookshelf-Speakers-Black-PAIR-/172706524151?hash=item28361c6bf7:g:MBsAAOSwBt5ZLx40

 

[Motrek]

https://camelcamelcamel.com/

Set up a notification for when they hit your desired price from that link. You can also track the price history.

Come on, this is the 21st century

Yup I love that site. That's how I knew it had gone down to $108 a couple times.

 

[Motrek]

...
However, I will tell you that my experience is the Sony is a better speaker than the WaveCrest.
...

Thanks again for the advice. The SS-CS5s went on sale again (currently ~$120 at both Amazon and Best Buy) and I picked up a pair and the difference is dramatic. They sound much "thinner" than the HVL-1s in the way I was hoping for. Imaging is excellent. The bass goes roughly as deep but sounds leaner (again, in a good way). Overall they sound much closer to my Ascend CBM-170s than the HVL-1s did. I would recommend them to anybody who's looking for speakers under $200. Remarkable. Thanks again!

 

[KEW]

Glad they worked out for you.
Definitely a value leader when they are discounted like that!
I would have never bothered to listen to them if Zieglj didn't put them on my radar.
When he comments about a speaker sounding "not bad" or surprising him (in a good way), I take note! He has listened to a lot of bookshelf speakers over the years and has a far better audio memory than I do for comparing them.
Generally, I feel Sony is too proud of their name and had pretty much abandoned the mainstream HiFi market, opting to produce lifestyle products (or high end HiFi) instead. They usually make competent stuff but almost always you can find equivalent or better for less with a little research.
In the case of these speakers, they set out to respond to the Andrew Jones Pioneer speakers with a somewhat more expensive and better sounding speaker. They did so and it is a pretty good buy at full price and an excellent buy when discounted!

 

[zieglj01]

Thanks again for the advice. The SS-CS5s went on sale again (currently ~$120 at both Amazon and Best Buy) and I picked up a pair and the difference is dramatic. Overall they sound much closer to my Ascend CBM-170s than the HVL-1s did. I would recommend them to anybody who's looking for speakers under $200. Remarkable. Thanks again!

Bingo -- glad you like them -- we who recommend them know that they are for real -- continue to enjoy

 

[Motrek]

Glad they worked out for you.
Definitely a value leader when they are discounted like that!
I would have never bothered to listen to them if Zieglj didn't put them on my radar.
When he comments about a speaker sounding "not bad" or surprising him (in a good way), I take note! He has listened to a lot of bookshelf speakers over the years and has a far better audio memory than I do for comparing them.
Generally, I feel Sony is too proud of their name and had pretty much abandoned the mainstream HiFi market, opting to produce lifestyle products (or high end HiFi) instead. They usually make competent stuff but almost always you can find equivalent or better for less with a little research.
In the case of these speakers, they set out to respond to the Andrew Jones Pioneer speakers with a somewhat more expensive and better sounding speaker. They did so and it is a pretty good buy at full price and an excellent buy when discounted!

They really are cool speakers. I imagine the plastic (?) rectangle where the tweeters are mounted reduces the effective size of the baffle. The screws holding it in place are (mostly) sunken which is nice. The tweeter waveguide looks nice. I don't know if "foamed mica" is a good material for speaker cones but it's cool-sounding and looks pretty badass. I wonder if the ring around the woofer is also to reduce baffle diffraction? It looks like a lot of work went into these things. Even the binding posts look cool with their clear plastic.

I'm sure the supertweeter is stupid marketing garbage but I guess it's not hurting anything. (I just checked and I can barely hear anything above 15 kHz.)

I tried using these with my TV in my living room. My Ascends are able to fill my living room effortlessly (at any volume) with smooth, crystal-clear sound. It's almost hard to tell where the sound is coming from, yet it's clear and imaging is precise. In comparison, the character of the Sonys' sound is similar but it doesn't fill the room the same way. It's obvious that the sound is coming from the speakers. But this is obviously an unfair comparison considering the Ascends are 35% bigger and cost ~3x as much...

 

[zieglj01]

I'm sure the supertweeter is stupid marketing garbage but I guess it's not hurting anything.

The super-tweeter is there to help control the off-axis response.

 

[Motrek]

The super-tweeter is there to help control the off-axis response.

Oh. How does it do that?

 

[Dennis Murphy]

The super-tweeter is there to help control the off-axis response.

I'm not sure what you mean by "control." The smaller diameter driver will have superior dispersion, and that will help the extreme highs hold up better off axis. But unless the crossover to the super tweeter is very carefully designed, the extra driver could actually degrade the smoothness of the off-axis response. Given the price, I doubt that there's much of a crossover up there. The function of the 3rd driver is part marketing, and part an attempt to provide more open sound. Overall, I found the Sony to be the best of the entry-level monitors I've tried above 80 Hz (with one exception I won't mention). Sony probably could have accomplished that by throwing a little more money at the main tweeter and losing the super tweeter, but I'm not going to argue with success.

 

[zieglj01]

I'm not sure what you mean by "control." The smaller diameter driver will have superior dispersion, and that will help the extreme highs hold up better off axis.

Maybe control is not the right word -- I was thinking more of the wide dispersion. English was not my best subject.

 

[zieglj01]

Oh. How does it do that?

See the Dennis Murphy post -- control may not be the right word. I am not an engineer.

 

[Motrek]

I'm not sure what you mean by "control." The smaller diameter driver will have superior dispersion, and that will help the extreme highs hold up better off axis. But unless the crossover to the super tweeter is very carefully designed, the extra driver could actually degrade the smoothness of the off-axis response. Given the price, I doubt that there's much of a crossover up there. The function of the 3rd driver is part marketing, and part an attempt to provide more open sound. Overall, I found the Sony to be the best of the entry-level monitors I've tried above 80 Hz (with one exception I won't mention). Sony probably could have accomplished that by throwing a little more money at the main tweeter and losing the super tweeter, but I'm not going to argue with success.

Yeah, it's weird, one of the first things people learn about speakers and audio is that human hearing maxes out at 20 kHz and regular tweeters do too (not coincidentally). So anybody who knows the basics of audio will probably see these "super-tweeters" and dismiss the entire product as cynical marketing-driven garbage.

I guess it's a math problem, how many people will be put off by the super-tweeters vs. how many will see "50 kHz" and think it might add some value?

Hmm, how many customers are there for Tidal @ 96 kHz?

 

[shadyJ]

Super tweeters can have their place. For example, you might want to use a tweeter than can play lower frequencies than normal, but that comes at a cost of high frequency extension. In these cases just use a super tweeter to take that upper range. However, using a super tweeter only for treble regions above say 18 kHz or so is a waste.

 

[zieglj01]

I guess it's a math problem, how many people will be put off by the super-tweeters vs. how many will see "50 kHz" and think it might add some value?

Hmm, how many customers are there for Tidal @ 96 kHz?

The JBL L830 is where it is more of a marketing ploy -- the second tweeter crossover is at 20 khz, which does not make sense.
https://www.jbl.com/loudspeakers/STUDIO+L830.html

 

[zieglj01]

So anybody who knows the basics of audio will probably see these "super-tweeters" and dismiss the entire product as cynical marketing-driven garbage.

I guess it's a math problem, how many people will be put off by the super-tweeters

This is the Sony $6000 bookshelf speaker with 3 tweeters.
SS-NA5ES
http://www.sonypremiumhome.com/es-speakers/SS-NA5ES.php

 

[Motrek]

Super tweeters can have their place. For example, you might want to use a tweeter than can play lower frequencies than normal, but that comes at a cost of high frequency extension. In these cases just use a super tweeter to take that upper range. However, using a super tweeter only for treble regions above say 18 kHz or so is a waste.

Oh I hadn't thought of that. Any idea where the crossover is for the SS-CS5s?

 

[Motrek]

I'm not sure what you mean by "control." The smaller diameter driver will have superior dispersion, and that will help the extreme highs hold up better off axis. But unless the crossover to the super tweeter is very carefully designed, the extra driver could actually degrade the smoothness of the off-axis response. Given the price, I doubt that there's much of a crossover up there. The function of the 3rd driver is part marketing, and part an attempt to provide more open sound. Overall, I found the Sony to be the best of the entry-level monitors I've tried above 80 Hz (with one exception I won't mention). Sony probably could have accomplished that by throwing a little more money at the main tweeter and losing the super tweeter, but I'm not going to argue with success.

I guess you guys nailed it, these little tweeters are to fill out off-axis response via their smaller diameters and thus wider dispersion:

https://www.stereophile.com/content/sony-ss-na2es-loudspeaker

I guess Sony prevents bad interactions between the tweeters with some patented techniques to do with the distance between tweeters and stuff like that.

I should probably take back some of what I said about these super-tweeters just being marketing nonsense.

 

[zieglj01]

Any idea where the crossover is for the SS-CS5s?

I have searched but I cannot find any info on that -- I think they want to preserve that info.

 

[Motrek]

I have searched but I cannot find any info on that -- I think they want to preserve that info.

Okay, I've been super impressed with the SS-CS5s for the last couple days, been listening to all my music on them almost non-stop... used them to watch a TV show on my computer last night and noticed an annoying level of sibilance in a lot of the dialogue... swapped with my Ascends and re-watched the same material, no annoying sibilance... is this something other people have noticed?

 

[zieglj01]

Okay, I've been super impressed with the SS-CS5s for the last couple days, been listening to all my music on them almost non-stop... used them to watch a TV show on my computer last night and noticed an annoying level of sibilance in a lot of the dialogue... swapped with my Ascends and re-watched the same material, no annoying sibilance... is this something other people have noticed?

There have been no real complaints about excess sibilance -- the Sony only has a small boost around 1 khz and then there tends to be a small, slow downward tilt in the rest of the frequency range. I would just keep testing and listening and see what happens -- sometimes the source can still be the bigger problem and not overall the speakers.