Sony 4K UBP-X700 issues

I

iFrog

Enthusiast
Hi, I mentioned the TV model in my initial post, but here it is again: Sony XBR-43X800D. A 2016 43" TV from Sony which was their first line to get HDR out of the box. I have HDR10, and HLG support.
As far as sending audio through the TV, it shouldn't be going through the TV at all. I have the devices I want to use with full audio quality directly connected to the sound bar's input and the sound bar connected to the TV's ARC port via it's HDMI out, so the goal is sound directly to sound bar, video to TV through the sound bar, which has been working without trouble. It was just the weird glitch with the Sony player.

Also some other information. This TV runs android TV, and can passthrough standard DTS, and Dolby digital 5.1 through ARC, and optical. Also, the TV recognizes the sound bar as a Bravia sync compatible sound system so, the sound bar turns off and on with the TV automatically, and the TV sets the speakers to audio system automatically instead of TV speakers so it's smart enough to know I don't want sound going through the TV. (or, that's what's supposed to happen). I also mentioned in the post that I was able to get the issue to stop by two sets of setting scenarios. Either setting a fixed resolution of 4k either by enabling Auto 2 under the players 4k upscale settings, or setting the output to 4k.
or the other one is disabling 24p output for BD/UHD. That's when this happens is on the frame rate change on video with a DTS track, that isn't 4k, or being output at 4k upscale. Hope this helps

I mainly was curious if anyone had ever seen this before because it's so strange, but also easily fixed with the right setting changes.

EDIT: One thing I wanted to add: if the sound was truly going through the TV, DTS-HD-MA would have ben sent as the 5.1 DTS core vs the lossless audio. Also, if I connect a device to a different input from the one the sound bar is connected to, the audio is sent through ARC as it should. Using a device from the input the sound bar is connected to, uses the direct HDMI in of the sound bar. I have a basic 4 port switch connected to the Sound bar's input and the devices I want with direct audio access are on the switch. I simply select the port of the device I want passed through. The Devices include (Roku Ultra 4800, Apple TV 4K 1st Gen, and the Sony UBP-X700). Have disabled control for HDMI on the UBP-X700.
 
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T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Ninja
Sorry, missed the TV model. Don't think I've ever heard of an issue like this one. But, HDMI-CEC/ARC do strange things as all devices communicate with one another and one of them doesn't like something from another device. What is the model of the soundbar?
 
I

iFrog

Enthusiast
Sorry, missed the TV model. Don't think I've ever heard of an issue like this one. But, HDMI-CEC/ARC do strange things as all devices communicate with one another and one of them doesn't like something from another device. What is the model of the soundbar?
Vizio M51ax-J6, brand new this year. There is a review of it on YouTube by AudioHolics as well. Also, there were known HDMI handshake issues with it, however, I downloaded and updated the firmware from Vizio that corrects the problems. So far it's been rock solid. I was pointing to the UBP-X700 for the issue because of all the other issues people have had with it of various kinds.

EDIT: In the Past I had Panasonic players, but I didn't like Panasonic's interface, and Sony was the best for a while, so I stuck with Sony. The problems I had with the Panasonic were:
1. If a disc would left in the player, on power up, it would auto play, Sony doesn't do that (usually)
2. I don't use BDLive because it can cause issues, so I couldn't disable it on the Panasonic player(s) without it continually whining. Again, Sony never had that issue.
 
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T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Ninja
Yes, on TVs with just ARC, DTS HDMA and Dolby TrueHD would be reduced to their lossy core when outputting externally connected device audio signals to a soundbar/receiver. What are the specs of that switch? Have you tried connecting the Sony directly to the soundbar on its own to rule out the switch box?
 
I

iFrog

Enthusiast
Yes, on TVs with just ARC, DTS HDMA and Dolby TrueHD would be reduced to their lossy core when outputting externally connected device audio signals to a soundbar/receiver. What are the specs of that switch? Have you tried connecting the Sony directly to the soundbar on its own to rule out the switch box?
The switch is certified for up to 18Gbps 4k / HDR HDCP 2.2 HDMI 2.0. Keep in mind it's NON 4K content that triggers the strange behavior when the player toggles frame rates of 1080p video, and switching the Player to 4k Output, or disabling 24p on BD/UHD fixes it. If the switch was the problem, it would be having issues with 4K content, because everything today is at least HDMI 1.4. Based on what I've heard from others to varying degrees, the player can have dropout issues. It's possible the way the UBP-X700 handles resolution changes, etc might affect the handshake. By the way, forcing 4K output resolution, or 4K upscaling really isn't going to change how things look will it? Even though the player reports 1080p for blu-ray, or upscaled DVD, the TV is still upscaling to 4k. So forcing 4k all the time seems like it would save work on the upscaling. Just a thought

By the way, I have experience and a degree in broadcast TV. However, I finished my training in 2010 which is when digital was just taking over, so everything I've learned since has pretty much been independent through forums, and reading and trial and error. Also talking to people who have more experience than myself.

Heck when 4k first came out, I thought initially it was just going to be another gimmick or niche item like 3D was. So, I'm actually surprised it's actually taken off the way it has. The problem I see from my own experience is there are too many specs and standard that in my opinion that were rushed, and nothing plays well together, at least it's very hit or miss.

I will say this, I did try separating the audio and video connections again in trying to solve the problem. It worked, but wasn't reliable as the sound bar kept toggling between HDMI in and HDRM ARC, so it was much easier just to change the player settings so it would stay set to HDMI in, so the full audio quality was available. So, that's where I'm at, and how I came to the conclusions I did on which fix to use.
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Ninja
It’s an easy thing to check. If it doesn’t do it when connected directly to the soundbar, it’s the switch. If you still have an issue, it’s the soundbar. You will have issues with the soundbar switching between HDMI in and eARC if HDMI-CEC and ARC are enabled when connecting the video to the TV and audio to the soundbar. Did you turn them off when making that connection?

Soundbars are really designed for ARC/eARC audio connections or they would offer more HDMI inputs. It’s not an issue if you are connecting to a new TV that supports lossless audio over eARC and you only need the one connection to the soundbar after connecting everything else to the TV. Though, there can be issues there as well depending on the devices.

Based on the devices in your setup, there will be work arounds. You seem to have found one that works for you. No, you probably won’t see a difference when making the video output changes to the player. But, having to do it at all is something else.
 
I

iFrog

Enthusiast
It’s an easy thing to check. If it doesn’t do it when connected directly to the soundbar, it’s the switch. If you still have an issue, it’s the soundbar. You will have issues with the soundbar switching between HDMI in and eARC if HDMI-CEC and ARC are enabled when connecting the video to the TV and audio to the soundbar. Did you turn them off when making that connection?

Soundbars are really designed for ARC/eARC audio connections or they would offer more HDMI inputs. It’s not an issue if you are connecting to a new TV that supports lossless audio over eARC and you only need the one connection to the soundbar after connecting everything else to the TV. Though, there can be issues there as well depending on the devices.

Based on the devices in your setup, there will be work arounds. You seem to have found one that works for you. No, you probably won’t see a difference when making the video output changes to the player. But, having to do it at all is something else.
The Nice thing is, in this case, it's something I can set and forget. It's just an example of not everything playing nice without some tweaks first. As far as your suggestion about testing without the switch, I didn't do that because I know why it was doing it. It's because having the sound bar connected to the TV for Video passthrough, and having the X700 connected to both the TV, and sound bar (even through the switch) was confusing the sound bar because it wasn't sure which connection for the X700 to use, so it was defaulting to ARC for that because I had to change the TV to the HDMI port the Sound bar wasn't set to pass video through to. So that's why I said, seeing it to always output at 4k was the solution for now because that way I could leave everything else alone (e.g. 24p). There is a good take away though. Me having posted this here and us going over the steps I took to fix the problem I was having will help someone else if they were to have the same, or similar issue(s)

Thanks for your help :)
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Ninja
I think the soundbar was switching because HDMI-CEC and ARC were On. It will always result in the TV changing the input of the receiver/soundbar to the TV input when HDMI-CEC and ARC are On. This makes the receiver/soundbar change from the input you actually want to use. When turned Off in the TV, there should be no issues with audio sent to the soundbar from the X700’s HDMI 2 output while video is sent to the TV directly from the HDMI 1 output.

Now, connecting it this way and turning HDMI-CEC and ARC Off in the TV after the fact can make things go a little haywire. You can lose all sound as the TV automatically switches from ARC to TV Speakers and cuts audio altogether. Shouldn’t do it, but it does and one needs to change TV audio output to optical to get things going again from the receiver/soundbar.

ARC is tied to HDMI-CEC and has always had issues. Some like the automatic switching provided when using it. Hit the Home button on your Apple TV 4K and watch everything turn on. They like atmos metadata from apps over ARC and so they use it. Many hate it and never use it and connect an optical cable to their receiver/soundbar so that they can get audio output. Many use the TV simply as a monitor. Everybody has a different setup with a different set of problems. It can be tricky getting it where you want it based on the components and settings used in the system.
 
I

iFrog

Enthusiast
I think the soundbar was switching because HDMI-CEC and ARC were On. It will always result in the TV changing the input of the receiver/soundbar to the TV input when HDMI-CEC and ARC are On. This makes the receiver/soundbar change from the input you actually want to use. When turned Off in the TV, there should be no issues with audio sent to the soundbar from the X700’s HDMI 2 output while video is sent to the TV directly from the HDMI 1 output.

Now, connecting it this way and turning HDMI-CEC and ARC Off in the TV after the fact can make things go a little haywire. You can lose all sound as the TV automatically switches from ARC to TV Speakers and cuts audio altogether. Shouldn’t do it, but it does and one needs to change TV audio output to optical to get things going again from the receiver/soundbar.

ARC is tied to HDMI-CEC and has always had issues. Some like the automatic switching provided when using it. Hit the Home button on your Apple TV 4K and watch everything turn on. They like atmos metadata from apps over ARC and so they use it. Many hate it and never use it and connect an optical cable to their receiver/soundbar so that they can get audio output. Many use the TV simply as a monitor. Everybody has a different setup with a different set of problems. It can be tricky getting it where you want it based on the components and settings used in the system.
Yep, I did the disabling Bravia Sync thing (disabling CEC) I could live with it that way, but, it's nice to have the sound bar turn on and off with the TV automatically. The switch I am using doesn't support CEC auto switching, however because the TV does CEC, if the selected device has it, it's still able to communicate with the TV. I put on the Smurfs: The Lost Village UHD disc, and the Atmos track sounded very nice. I got the Dolby TrueHD Atmos track from the sound bar. When it's time for a new TV, I really hope I can buy a 4k display without all the smarts built in. I like a dumb display with the external devices doing the smart functionality. That's how I have it setup in the bedroom. A basic LG 49" TV (1080p) with one of the old sound bars that can't pass 4k / HDR setup. That TV doesn't have ARC, CEC, or anything to get in the way so it's a nice setup to deal with. I have the UBP-X800 on that setup because I mainly use it as a standard BD player, even though I can watch UHD discs in SDR.

One other thing I'll say here. I didn't realize the UBP-X700 was causing the issues it was, because I primarily was using it with UHD discs. It was when I started testing standard Blu-rays more, it showed up. For DVDs, I have a Sony upscaling DVD player, because those have more specific features I like than the newer BD players have such as AB repeat, or in the case of the Sony, multiple disc resume where you can take the disc out and put it back in and it remembers up to 5 discs. That player doesn't need a direct connection to the sound bar, because the audio on a standard DVD is supported fully through ARC.
 
I

iFrog

Enthusiast
Hey @Trebdp83 : got a question for you. On the topic of disabling ARC so I might try doing the dual HDMI outputs. Would ARC stop functioning, if I moved the sound bar to the non ARC enhanced port of the TV? It's still recognized as a Brava sync compatible sound system on that port, but would it stop trying to change to the ARC input on the non ARC enabled port, so I can leave CEC enabled, or would it still be better to fully turn off CEC to eliminate conflicts ?
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Ninja
It still will be a little bugger about it and change the input even if nothing is connected to the ARC input. I think I’ve tried every scenario to get around it myself but turning HDMI-CEC completely off is the only way it works without issue when connecting the player that way. The player doesn’t adjust its HDMI-CEC signal when connected that way so the TV doesn’t know to just display the video and make the receiver/soundbar switch to the player’s audio connection. It’s Smart, but not that Smart. But, the standard is all over the place with different brands. You can try it out and see what it does with your setup.
 
Replicant 7

Replicant 7

Audioholic Samurai
It still will be a little bugger about it and change the input even if nothing is connected to the ARC input. I think I’ve tried every scenario to get around it myself but turning HDMI-CEC completely off is the only way it works without issue when connecting the player that way. The player doesn’t adjust its HDMI-CEC signal when connected that way so the TV doesn’t know to just display the video and make the receiver/soundbar switch to the player’s audio connection. It’s Smart, but not that Smart. But, the standard is all over the place with different brands. You can try it out and see what it does with your setup.
I just got another Sony 4K X700M player. It's the newer model up from the X700, as of now, I've tried all my 4K movies it hasn't froze up once. But it's still glitchy, on the X700 it would at times not often but it would not display video when the disc started up. To isolate it to see if the issue was with the AVR or the TV or 4K player itself. I ran HDMI source out straight to the tv and it did the same thing no video. The cure? Turn off HDMI link on your Sony UBD-X700/700M in settings. Once I turned that feature set off never did it again. Yep it's smart but not that smart. @Trebdp83 check your player bro, funny thing just happened, as I was typing in this post I turned on 4K player and look what popped up!
IMG_20211210_062309228_HDR~2.jpg
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Ninja
That message comes on often and signals updates in the streaming services I believe. But, I never use them and couldn’t tell you if they’ve improved at all.
 
I

iFrog

Enthusiast
@Trebdp83 : I picked up the Jurassic World 5 Movie box set today (the 4K one) and am loving the DTS:X sound track. The HDR is great too. I got your reply and here is what I've decided to do on that. Since setting the player's output to 4K as the fixed output fixes the tv's error message I'll use this setup since everything is still automatic except selecting the device I want to pass through. I have connected the Sony upscaling DVD player to a separate port on the TV when I want to just use a regular DVD player instead of the BDP, and everything works. The HDMI ARC input is used for that, and all the codecs from DVD work. Then when switching back to the HDMI port the sound bar is connected to, it automatically switches back to HDMI in for the other devices.

I'll only do the dual connection if the TV starts complaining again, or other problems come up. That way I can save extra steps that aren't needed when switching, if this setup I have now continues to work.

Also, I forgot to mention this yesterday. Sony BD players have really strange bugs when playing 4:3 DVDs. Even when set to output 4:3 as 4:3 if the player is turned off while a DVD is in the drive, and then resumed later, the disc starts in full screen stretched. I have to stop it and press play again for it to go back to normal. So using a normal DVD player for DVDs seems to eliminate some of these oddities.
 
Replicant 7

Replicant 7

Audioholic Samurai
Sony released update for their UBP-X700, and maybe the others also. So check your Sony 4K player for firmware update. Updating mine now.
 
SithZedi

SithZedi

Audioholic General
Sony released update for their UBP-X700, and maybe the others also. So check your Sony 4K player for firmware update. Updating mine now.
Thanks for the heads up. There was an update for the x800m2 yesterday.
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Ninja
Sony released update for their UBP-X700, and maybe the others also. So check your Sony 4K player for firmware update. Updating mine now.
Thanks for this. There was also one for my X800 unit. After the update, the disc tray would not open. I unplugged the player for several seconds and plugged it back, and everything returned to normal.
It's always good to unplug an equipment for several seconds when it's malfunctioning. That reestablishes the normal function in a lot of situations. I didn't have to contact Sony.
 
Replicant 7

Replicant 7

Audioholic Samurai
Thanks for this. There was also one for my X800 unit. After the update, the disc tray would not open. I unplugged the player for several seconds and plugged it back, and everything returned to normal.
Your welcome Sir! Don't know if you remember the freezing up way back. I'm watching GOT on 4K Blu-ray S8-E3 right now. It would freeze up right at the battle scene when they where attacking the night king. Didn't freeze up on that battle scene this time! Yea!
 
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I

iFrog

Enthusiast
Sony released update for their UBP-X700, and maybe the others also. So check your Sony 4K player for firmware update. Updating mine now.
Sorry it took me some time to reply, but I updated mine this morning and everything seems fine. I wasn't sure if you were referring back to the firmware update a month or so ago. So when I saw there was an update this morning, I knew it was a new update since thing that you were referring to. Anyway, thanks again.
 

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