Small but loud JBL home cinema

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H

HAL9000

Banned
Wow, that is quite a convaluted system there. Just wondering why you have speakers without drivers? You might clear up that mess a little by taking out some unused and outdated equipment. I'd first toss out the prologic gear and just stick with a decent surround sound system.
By you adding more and more speakers by first splitting prologic gear, your not getting the best sound you could be. I can't even describe the "lobing effect" your getting with all those speakers. You will probably get far better results by just hooking up your Kenwood only to 5 speakers and the sub total. that room doesn't look nearly big enough to have to worry about any more speakers. Oh and ditch the Sony get something with at least component inputs. Just an opinion.
 
D

Dolby CP-200

Banned
Well seeing you don’t have the first clue with what you can and can’t do with a six-track Dolby stereo mix in the home. I have to say I’m why ahead of you tenfold on the sound I can outdo you in sound in my sleep.

You should pop on over but I don’t really like to have someone over who’s afraid to show his whole profile and from the sound and the tone of your voice I’ll pass.

It serves well in fact very well. I designed the sound system to outperform most who have spent thousands of ££££ on there AVR or AVP with affordable means.

Besides I don’t you would even know that Dolby digital surround-EX is based on the Dolby CP-45 with simple modifications.

The Dolby pro-logic Pioneer VSP-200 is used in the same way as the Dolby SA-10 except for looks one think is, if you have Dolby digital-EX doses it have the extra output for height surround. Oh I’m sorry it doesn’t oh dear.

The Yamaha DSR-70 pro-logic does something special for the fronts some I doubt your AVR or AVP would even do. oh dear I do hope you didn’t spend too much money on it. Home cinema can be a viscous business.

That’s why most of the professional Dolby CP units are built to last and you have to think like a projectionist and apply some of the cinema techniques to the home cinema, but of course you already knew that.
 
H

HAL9000

Banned
But CP current DVD's are mixed with a simple 5.1 or 6.1 discrete soundtrack and with the new lossless format are mixed for even more discrete sound. What you are doing is splitting those discreet signals and dilluting the sound even more.

Here's an anology for you, take a glass of water. Pure 100% purified water, (this represents one channel of uncompressed sound) now add another liquid of your choice let's say milk. To that glass, What you have done in theory is split the signal into two but in turn polluted the water with the milk. the more speakers you add is just like adding more milk to the glass, till soon you have far more milk than pure water. Same principle.

Your post seems rather harsh considering I was just giving you some much needed pointers. I would much rather have a pure signal than one that has been split eight differeant ways to achieve a "simulated sound"

Also we don't call it six -track Dolby stereo (Stereo represents two speakers, so in essence your saying that you are using 12 channels of sound) Hence why DVD's say 5.1 discrete. As far as outdoing someone in sound, you should know a persons background before making such harsh judgements.

I also find it hard to believe that you are outperforming anyones equipment with 80's prologic gear that have been split seven differant ways. But sound is subjective, I'm sure if it sounds good to you it is. And let's leave it at that.

As far as Dolby equipment being built to last I'm sure it has, but even Dolby upgrades their equipment (especially from the 80's). Hence why you no longer see theaters touting Dolby Stereo and they now all claim Dolby Digital Surround Sound. ;)
 
D

Dolby CP-200

Banned
I have done music and sound mixing at collage and I know what can be done within the mix. I have also worked for two major cinema chains in the past UCI and Warner Bros I think I know what I’m doing and I appreciate what you’re saying.
 
H

HAL9000

Banned
Dolby I have no doubt you know what your doing, let me guess when you worked for the two theater chains, it was probably in the 80's early 90's right? You had to find ingenious ways to correctly balance the sound for the theater using prologic gear (hence why I say the 80's or early 90's) but you are holding on to an outdated sound field where current technology and sound mixing has improved on since then (tenfold).
By the way what College (spelled correctly) did you attend?
 
D

Dolby CP-200

Banned
Well Dolby or 5.1 that Tomlinson Holman called out at a audio convention during the late 1980’s may have taking some credit for 5.1. But old habits die hard I prefer to call it ether six-track Dolby stereo or Dolby 5.1.

Six –track Dolby stereo sounds more cooler than Dolby 5.1 both is the same! Expect different Dolby format codes or the why the films where encoded on the 70mm format Superman the Movie being the first to use split-surrounds (Dolby format 43) while other films might only be using the (baby boom) track (Dolby format 42) something most AVR or AVP decoders won’t do and yes 70mm is still alive at some cinemas with special shows.

I have done a similar effect creating the (baby boom) between channels 2 & 4, but that method would only apply to the (Dolby format 42) all I did was take the two extra JBL control 5 and place them in the between left and center and center and right a little re-plugging and BINGO!

I was quite impressed with the way it sounded and felt!
 
D

Dolby CP-200

Banned
Never mind about the spelling I am using Microsoft word and it’s not always word perfect.

Yes I did attended and I was rather surprised how easy it was using the Qubase VTS 32 5.1 version which I have no doubt has changed by now. But the learning principles still remain use the pan pots left and right with left sent to full left and right set to full right. Faders EQ and the individual tracks.

I have Qubase VTS 32 5.1 for the home pc Microsoft windows, and where the college was using Mac G4 they where good over my aging pc.
 
H

HAL9000

Banned
I have Qubase VTS 32 5.1 for the home pc Microsoft windows, and where the college was using Mac G4 they where good over my aging pc.

So what college did you attend again, your answer confused me. And your using EQ's to help with the prologiced soundfield?

Wow for once I am left speechless. :eek:
 
D

Dolby CP-200

Banned
We do have a quote button it’s a little tricky I know.:D
 
H

HAL9000

Banned
I have heard of the Altec A-7 not the A-4
Yes i am quite aware of the qoute button but while typing to you I am also doing about 12 other tasks at the same time, so sometimes my grammer gets waylaid.
 
D

Dolby CP-200

Banned
So did you see 2001 when I first came out or in the later years what a classic for sound!

Listening some cool what I call non sync on, The Fire 107 FM at the moment a kinder re-mix of the American Beauty soundtrack great non sync to keep the audience relaxed.
 
MACCA350

MACCA350

Audioholic Chief
Simple question.
What setup do sound engineers use when mixing todays movies? and what setup do they advise us to use? (think ABBEY road studios, etc. Also THX's and Dolby's setup recommendations)

5-7.1?
20.1?
30.1?

If you're trying to reproduce what the engineers intended(and this is intention) then more does not always equal better. If this is not your goal the go ahead, knock yourself out and keep cramming in the speakers to your hearts content.

You must agree that the only reason that theaters have so many speakers is because they're so big and have to cater to heaps of people seated all over the auditorium and fill that huge space with sound, their speakers are mainly built for SPL not necessarily quality(although I'm sure there are some exceptions).

Anyway, obviously your happy with what you're doing so more power to ya'

cheers:)
 
H

Hi-Fi ve

Junior Audioholic
Dolby CP-200 said:
Dolby, those links are cool however, the dubbing stages they show are big. They are about same size as commercial theaters and I can understand why they would need multiple fronts and surrounds speakers (as already mentioned by MACCA). Your theater room looks to be about 1/10th or less of the size and I see no reason why 3 fronts and a pair of surrounds (2 pairs if you run 7.1) wouldn’t work perfectly. That’s if your receiver / preamp is up to date on decoding software. If not, it’s time to upgrade. Decent receivers are cheap nowadays. Also, I would suggest selling some of those speakers to purchase bass traps for your home theater (I don’t see one so far). Bass traps are a must if you want clean tight bass. Until you’ve tried it in your own room, you won’t know what you are missing.
 
D

Dolby CP-200

Banned
The principle operation of the surround arrays is to cover it with smaller loudspeakers set out in a similar way that a cinema would. There is the smallest cinema at Empire #3 and that is smaller than most HUGE American home cinemas that only use four surround loudspeakers in a 7.1 mode.

Since there is no 7.1 discrete films available on DVD except SDDS 8 for the cinema and since the whole point of surround is to surround the listening area and since I have spent far less than most with there 7.1 over costly four surround loudspeakers, yes the total array came to £249.00 that’s not bad going where only a pair of over costly dipolar or bipolar might be close to £300.00 for a pair.

Sorry I have used bipolar and would touch them much less dipolar with a ten foot barge pole.

Bass traps I have looked at some interesting video demonstrations show how easy to install them and the results showing up on the RTA was conclusive proof that sold me on the idea. There is one to do DIY bass traps where the user will save hundreds of £££ pounds.

That’s an option that I might get around too at later stage and I’m looking forwards to seeing the differences.


Most home cinema owners that don’t have Dolby 6.1 matrix could easily add a Dolby pro-logic decoder to the rear surrounds where with most of the really good Dolby film mixes that have split-surrounds would work a treat plus there will one extra channel to play around with that is not accompanied on most AVR or AVP decoders that sport Dolby digital-EX looks like someone overlooked it when knocking it together for the consumer.:D
 
H

Hi-Fi ve

Junior Audioholic
Dolby CP-200 said:
The principle operation of the surround arrays is to cover it with smaller loudspeakers set out in a similar way that a cinema would. There is the smallest cinema at Empire #3 and that is smaller than most HUGE American home cinemas that only use four surround loudspeakers in a 7.1 mode.

Since there is no 7.1 discrete films available on DVD except SDDS 8 for the cinema and since the whole point of surround is to surround the listening area and since I have spent far less than most with there 7.1 over costly four surround loudspeakers, yes the total array came to £249.00 that’s not bad going where only a pair of over costly dipolar or bipolar might be close to £300.00 for a pair.

Sorry I have used bipolar and would touch them much less dipolar with a ten foot barge pole.

Bass traps I have looked at some interesting video demonstrations show how easy to install them and the results showing up on the RTA was conclusive proof that sold me on the idea. There is one to do DIY bass traps where the user will save hundreds of £££ pounds.

That’s an option that I might get around too at later stage and I’m looking forwards to seeing the differences.


Most home cinema owners that don’t have Dolby 6.1 matrix could easily add a Dolby pro-logic decoder to the rear surrounds where with most of the really good Dolby film mixes that have split-surrounds would work a treat plus there will one extra channel to play around with that is not accompanied on most AVR or AVP decoders that sport Dolby digital-EX looks like someone overlooked it when knocking it together for the consumer.:D
I don’t quite follow what you are saying. I’m not saying you need to replace all your surround speakers with other type. Just keep 4 surrounds, 3 fronts plus a sub and sell the rest for some bass traps. Those JBL Control series will work just fine as surrounds.

As for 7.1 audio, many low cost receivers came out last 3 years can play that out of 5.1 digital source seamlessly. You’ll be surprised how far receiver technology has come. Try online vendors. Right now (early in the year) there are tons of sale going.
 
highfihoney

highfihoney

Audioholic Samurai
Hi dolby,i have no doubt that you have a plan & im pretty sure that your experience working in huge auditorium theaters has lead you to build this system,i cant begin to imagine how dynamic that system sounds but im very confused,mostly about set up.

Ive looked at all your gear & speakers,how do you have all that stuff hooked up,i see intergrated amps,a whole slew of equlizers & what not,my main questions are how on earth do you power all that gear without starting a fire & how are all the speakers hooked up without dropping the ohmage being seen at the amplifiers to below 1 ohm,forgive me if the questions i ask seem stupid but im a 2 channel guy & dont know too much about home theater.

On a lighter note,i cant help thinking of the movie national lampoons xmas vacation where chevy chase gose berserk with all those damm lights & when he turns the light system on the whole neighborhood blacks out,then they pan away & show a shot of the power meter on his house spinning around at 2,000 rpm's:D

I forgot one question so i had to edit,how do you get in & out of the door with the speakers on it.
 
H

HAL9000

Banned
Room dimensions are extremely important to sound. I alos noticed the lack of bass traps, proper room acoustics and the fact that are way too many speakers and again prologic gear (along with the eq's) to firmly say that you Dolby are not even coming close to getting proper sound.

I understand the need for matching what a much larger commercially constructed theater must have to achieve proper and good sound. But what you are doing, is trying to copy that in a much smaller space, and you are going to get improper sound, lobing effects, distortion (especially with all the equipment on the same electrical grid.)

You would think that with your experience working at the theater and in college (BTW you still have not mentioned which university you attended.) That you would realize and understand the proper way to achieve audio nirvana. But again, i'm sure you have a method to why you are doing all this, so as long as it sounds good to you that's what's important.

I'm sure you have heard this before from other members but have you tried just a simple 7.1 setup? With current gear.
 
D

Dolby CP-200

Banned
Why in the world would I need to waste money on 7.1 when there are no films on DVD with 7.1 except SDDS 8 something that Sony said they’ll never realise to the consumer home cinema market.

You might be thinking why doesn’t the cinema use the surround channel like home cinema, how draft would that be they have enough surround loudspeakers in most large cinemas to sink a battleship. Why don’t we just have 7.1 in the future with five-screen it’s not impossible. Why keep adding on more surround channels is if four isn’t already enough.

And I’m not talking about four loudspeakers to cover the walls. I’m talking about the surround output channels.

Anyway, let’s see what you’ve got shall we. Start your own thread up if it looks like the Empire I’ll be very impressed.:D

I must say I do like those x4 JBL 8330 in a small room?:D

Bournemouth & Poole College
 
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