Shrinking woofer sizes for hifi ?

Kingnoob

Kingnoob

Audioholic General
It seems shrinking speakers each generation is the way speaker design is going .

but for the average consumer level speakers they are gone .
many models are 4-6.5 today
did brands like Bose kill them off ? And satellites model brands

I know vintage models were mostly larger sized 8” +
Possibly reasons for smaller Ones ?
Some old large woofers were loud and impressive others of low quality were terrible .

Today’s models are very impressive!!
Tower speakers look like a extremely tall bookshelf speaker these days .

But few models today are 8” or 10”

just due to being ugly or are they impractical for sound dispersion?

It seems almost no brands sell center speakers over 8” woofers or towers . There are a few exceptions but they cost too much so not important to this discussion.
Using the chane as an example..
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Several reasons drove home audio speakers toward getting smaller drivers. One is that the speaker will have a smaller footprint. Who wouldn't want a speaker to take up less room? Another reason is, for two-way speakers, smaller woofers are easier to integrate with normal tweeters. You can't drive a large cone toward too high of frequencies before bad things start happening, but smaller cones can play higher frequencies without as many problems. Another reason is also dispersion, as you mention. Smaller woofers will have wider dispersion. Also, narrower cabinets will be less prone to diffraction from the front baffle.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Overlord
I would venture a guess that modern tech and design has managed to squeeze more out of smaller drivers too. My current towers have 5 1/2" drivers but easily dig deeper than the older B&W speakers I had with 8" drivers.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Overlord
WAF has caused larger speaker sales to lag, so they started making smaller boxes, but the technology has allowed smaller drivers to do better in the low end. That, and the first inexpensive subwoofers started the ball rolling, even if some of them weren't particularly good (Sony WA-50 being one model that thumped in a bad way). Miller & Kreisel were one of the first that really did a good job and the drivers they used were the same or similar to what had been used in many other brands' speakers, but they made small satellites, rather than using a bookshelf size.

It would be interesting to hear some of the well-regarded old speakers as they would have sounded fresh out of the box, to compare them with some of the modern models.
 
K

kini

Audioholic
It seems shrinking speakers each generation is the way speaker design is going .

but for the average consumer level speakers they are gone .
many models are 4-6.5 today
did brands like Bose kill them off ? And satellites model brands

I know vintage models were mostly larger sized 8” +
Possibly reasons for smaller Ones ?
Some old large woofers were loud and impressive others of low quality were terrible .

Today’s models are very impressive!!
Tower speakers look like a extremely tall bookshelf speaker these days .

But few models today are 8” or 10”

just due to being ugly or are they impractical for sound dispersion?

It seems almost no brands sell center speakers over 8” woofers or towers . There are a few exceptions but they cost too much so not important to this discussion.
Using the chane as an example..
Here ya go-
 
H

Hetfield

Audioholic Field Marshall
Well I would have never thought I'd have 4 inch drivers for speakers but here I am with RSL speakers and 4 inch drivers. Sounds fantastic to me.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
 
Kingnoob

Kingnoob

Audioholic General
yeah I’ve heard of them and psa.
Ill never be able to afford those or let alone move them . Oddly there big woofers don’t go below 60-70 hz!!!
I said they do exist but super expensive!!!!
In general most speakers aren’t over 6.5-8” max size .
Some towers have 4-6” woofers, brands charge a ton for small speakers like kef r .
 
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S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
yeah I’ve heard of them and psa.
Ill never be able to afford those or let alone move them . Oddly there big woofers don’t go below 60-70 hz!!!
I said they do exist but super expensive!!!!
In general most speakers aren’t over 6.5-8” max size .
Some towers have 4-6” woofers, brands charge a ton for small speakers like kef r .
The JTR woofers definitely go lower than 60Hz. The bass performance of the JTR 215RTs far exceeds that of most subwoofers (when supplied with sufficient amplification).
 
H

Hetfield

Audioholic Field Marshall
To me, not having a dog in the fight, the PSA speakers seem like the better value. Am I way off on that's? I was going to go with them at one point but decided to go on a much cheaper direction.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Overlord
So, whoever owns BIC owns the RTR name? Sure- lets sell names and roll out crap.

RTR had speakers in the late-'70s/early-'80s with woofers that were about 26" diameter- probably outweighed me. I might have considered them for a large room.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
To me, not having a dog in the fight, the PSA speakers seem like the better value. Am I way off on that's? I was going to go with them at one point but decided to go on a much cheaper direction.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
A speaker of that price point shouldn't be using such an ancient waveguide. Not a great value, in my opinion, and yes, I have heard them.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Overlord
yeah I’ve heard of them and psa.
Ill never be able to afford those or let alone move them . Oddly there big woofers don’t go below 60-70 hz!!!
I said they do exist but super expensive!!!!
In general most speakers aren’t over 6.5-8” max size .
Some towers have 4-6” woofers, brands charge a ton for small speakers like kef r .
'Full-range' PA speakers don't need to go below 50Hz and PA systems for music are often high-passed at 50Hz because the drums fill in that range acoustically, they would cause all kinds of problems if the sub-50Hz thump from the toms and kick drum(s) were sent through the PA, the other mics are already picking up the sound from the drums because it's impossible to prevent it, although some acts do use baffles to limit the 'bleed' into. Also, the stage often has monitors that produce full-range sound and in some cases, they provide enough for a smaller venue. In a large venue, EVERYTHING is mic'd or goes direct, mics are more directional and baffles are used but only the systems that really need sub-50Hz will send it to the speakers and only if they use subwoofers.

There's a big difference in the sound when it comes from small woofers vs large woofers- the larger woofers move more air so it's felt, smaller woofers are heard. I don't remember feeling kick drums in my chest from small woofers in the way it does coming from large ones.
 
NINaudio

NINaudio

Audioholic Field Marshall
So, whoever owns BIC owns the RTR name? Sure- lets sell names and roll out crap.

RTR had speakers in the late-'70s/early-'80s with woofers that were about 26" diameter- probably outweighed me. I might have considered them for a large room.
I didn't say they were good, I know nothing about them other than they exist; but noob seems to want large woofers in a cheap speaker.
 
H

Hetfield

Audioholic Field Marshall
A speaker of that price point shouldn't be using such an ancient waveguide. Not a great value, in my opinion, and yes, I have heard them.
Ok, I'm no expert. I have no idea about the waveguide but a friend does have them and they sound fantastic. Extremely dynamic is how I would describe them.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
 
K

kini

Audioholic
Ok, I'm no expert. I have no idea about the waveguide but a friend does have them and they sound fantastic. Extremely dynamic is how I would describe them.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
I trialed the MT110s. They were OK, nothing more. Sounded identical to my Klipsch RF62IIs. Same soundstage, imaging and voicing but without the harshness at high volumes. The center actually matched my towers better than my RC52.

They had no bass in my room, which I was kind of expecting based on the design. Despite their being a "true" 95db sensitive speaker they were actually 1.5db less efficient in room than my over rated RF62IIs.

My Kef Q750s were an improvement in every aspect at the same price. And I can use them without a sub if I want.
 
H

Hetfield

Audioholic Field Marshall
I trialed the MT110s. They were OK, nothing more. Sounded identical to my Klipsch RF62IIs. Same soundstage, imaging and voicing but without the harshness at high volumes. The center actually matched my towers better than my RC52.

They had no bass in my room, which I was kind of expecting based on the design. Despite their being a "true" 95db sensitive speaker they were actually 1.5db less efficient in room than my over rated RF62IIs.

My Kef Q750s were an improvement in every aspect at the same price. And I can use them without a sub if I want.
As I said I don't own them but they sound extremely dynamic. Other than that I only heard them twice and I was impressed. I will say I'm pretty easy to please when it comes to speakers. I have very inexpensive RSL speakers and they sound great to me. A lot of people would say they are garbage right off the bat based on the price alone.
KEF speakers are intriguing though. Beautiful speakers and I have never heard a bad word about them.
Eventually I'd like to stick with RSL and go from the GC3 line to the CG5 line but I'm very happy at the moment.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
 
Kingnoob

Kingnoob

Audioholic General
So, whoever owns BIC owns the RTR name? Sure- lets sell names and roll out crap.

RTR had speakers in the late-'70s/early-'80s with woofers that were about 26" diameter- probably outweighed me. I might have considered them for a large room.
26” woofer wow ... even if sound quality wasn’t good that’s a Lot of woofer .
Modern rtr look like knock off cerwin Vegas , I consider them once but too wide too fit in my small room .
I have one vintage rtr pair but woofers only 8”!!!
Box was pretty big ..
high quality smaller speakers probably beat junk big ones .
Psa are awful expensive for a small waveguide.
My Klipch icons woofers are 6.5 in towers and 5 1/4” in center and bookshelves, 4” surrounds. Don’t get any bass from them just my subwoofers , cable lacks bass ?
Wonder how these would work https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/B215XL--behringer-eurolive-b215xl-1000w-15-inch-passive-speaker
Kef only has 1 woofer ? 2 fake ones
Did subs kill woofer sizes ?

Some speakers with tiny woofers cost a fortune ... kef r11 uses 6.5”x 4 for 3 grand each
 
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AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I don’t think it’s anything new. It seems like there have always been speakers of all sizes to fit everyone’s needs. Right @Gmoney ?

Speakers with small drivers and speakers with large drivers.

A Speaker for everyone. You just gotta know what you want and go for it. :D
 
Gmoney

Gmoney

Audioholic Ninja
I don’t think it’s anything new. It seems like there have always been speakers of all sizes to fit everyone’s needs. Right @Gmoney ?

Speakers with small drivers and speakers with large drivers.

A Speaker for everyone. You just gotta know what you want and go for it. :D
Any word yet on RBH new speaker line?
 

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