"We seem to have been infiltrated by a couple of BS merchants and late, which is unfortunate."
JUST maybe you can learn something if you pay attention, TLS guy. I would say a little enlightening is in order even for the VERY well informed. It seems you may be.
NOW lets stretch that GRAY muscle. Mine is 1/2 full at 67, I still got a was to go. No insults slung other that, ignorance is bliss, or the brain is all filled up, which is it?
From the standpoint of science, and objectivity, we can measure a particular item, like Signal to Noise, IMD, Decay Rates and Frequency Response at different times with different measurements. We can state some items measure differently. That is data collected! In and of it's self it proves you ran some test, ONLY.
Entering into a debate without some common ground is the only real issue in the cable world. The lack of understanding music vs sound is NOT scientific. It is a question. There are many proofs in the human body of pleasing or soothing
sounds other than by measuring the sound with only instruments. So, ONLY using the persons ears and verbal response as the measure, it is a very wide response to describe the same sound everyone heard unless they are trained to respond the same way. EX; "RINGING", here are some examples. I'll play them on speakers and you will hear the 'RINGING" from a poor XO selection. Lower the crossover point on THAT driver and the ringing will subside. They were taught, they didn't learn on their own. Someone taught them. This is the sound, this is the fix, now LISTEN to the fix.
The Iris, dilation and constriction, along with BP. EEG, perspiration and respiration rates are recorded to get baseline readings on the HUMAN side of "this test".
THEN we introduce music, and see if the person is trained to listen. When asked questions they measure the response, during playback and the recollection of
the playback, THEN overlay the Ear/Brain memory tape and see if the two are the same. A well trained ear, will include the proper description and what they heard or didn't hear. NOT I couldn't measure it, so it's not there. I don't know how to measure ringing other than pushing a driver until it does, THEN look at the scope, and compare what you hear with what you SEE. YOUR Ears heard it, your brain learned it. OR it didn't. Change jobs if it's how you make your living. You might go broke.
Is there agreement and proof of each measurement’s value and the range of human sensitivity? (young, old, deaf)
What are the relative merits of each measurement in terms of a (broad) range of listeners as well as you
, specifically? Give a account measurements that make a difference. Not all the same. Stands to reason if thing measure the same but sound different someone is full of $hit or they are NOT measuring the RIGHT thing.
That is the actual fact.
We CAN'T take measurements which take into account the ear/brain mechanism as well as self-training of the neural pathways. What's neutral?
Look it up. It's the part most measure-ologist, leave out. Our brains relation to the sound and IF THAT brain has been trained.
I am saying this with the most humble and in the kindest way I can think of. FOR NOW! Some people have been PICKED because of their training to hear artifacts within the structure of a playback system. THEN they are further trained by "the masters". I've met a few sonar people that were VERY well trained in the differences in sound.
Furthermore their ears weren't ruined by abuse (musicians) or old, or untrained and wore out, when they started their music journey.
They know what will be on the recording vs what was added or removed via mixing.
If you are stuck with measurements that were mostly developed 50 years ago, and some new ones added you aren’t scientific at all. You are doing quality assurance.
I agree that it is almost science from a layman's perspective but from a scientific view, not so much.
I'm absolutely convinced that measuring to prove something WRONG will do just that and measuring something to prove it's right will have the same flavored effect.
The issue has always been NO two ears are the same. Why should anyone else's ears be any different. The left and right outer EAR on the same person are
DIFFERENT. So is the left and right side of your brain's understanding and reacting to it.
Do the math, that's 7.9 BILLION pairs of ears that are different. 15.8 BILLION different ears to hear with.
We all hear the same way. We do? Yes, I took 6 whole test to make sure out of 15.8 billion slight variation in the human ear I
covered all 100%. We should have a good test bed of information. OK, Knock me over with a feather. YOU have a mouse in your pocket, I don't agree with a darn thing you said other than you ran 6 test.
How does that sound to the scientist in the room? From a mechanics perspective, I'm going to listen a little more, NOT LESS and turn my head a few times and LEARN
to hear the difference, GUESS WHAT, I CAN at 67 years old. I can tell what I like from what I don't. Amazing. What's more amazing is I don't have to prove a thing to people that don't want to LEARN how to listen, screw them ALL. I don't have to play marbles with people that want to play football.
BTW I'm not a Gary Busey fan any more either, things do change.
To the Eeyore 3, who cares. Ignorance is bliss. You want to join, keep saying all cables sound the same and we need a blind test to prove it. I think first
WE need to learn how to listen and find out if we can tell the difference. A lot of younger trained people can, a lot of older people can't and because they can't
you can't either. HORSE PUCKY I know it's pure jealousy, a pure lack of education or the lack of being able to hear. The gear, comparison is laughable at best for testing.
"Pick the features you want on your AV. OK... 36 - 24 - 36 AND I want it to sound GOOD. The important part. I seldom hear it though. HOW DOES IT SOUND?
I have 10,000 features though. BUT it sounds like $hit. OH I didn't realize that. Can't get two speakers right but you're going to try 14 more to start with.
Me, the dog, the rabbit, and the goat's heads all tilted sideways. The rabbit know we only have two ears, what's with the other 14 speakers? He's really looking now
he know I'm talking about him. True rabbit ears for sure, great reception.
Jesus, I'm going to feed the damn chickens and spit over the fence.