Sell me on a real 5.1 system VS AiO kit.

[fuzz092888]

Bookshelf-minilist

EMP Tek E41-B Bookshelf Speaker

CBM-170 SE High Performance Bookshelf Loudspeaker

Verus Grand Bookshelf Speaker - Aperion Audio

I can understand why you might say act like adults, but in response I will say ask a silly question get less than desirable answers. If you spent some time looking around the threads, or did a search you'd see that there are a number of PC speaker threads and the configurations are either 2.0, 2.1, 4.0, or 4.1. This is because you're trying to deliver good accurate sound to a small very focused area. You don't need more than two speakers, unless you want enveloping sound and then you'd stick two speakers behind and to the side.

The setup you were looking at was cluttered and won't give you the sound of a quality 2.1 setup. As mentioned above a good 2.1 setup will sound better, and when placed correctly you'll get a nice wide soundstage as well giving you the impression of more than just two speakers. Granted, this also has a lot to do with what you're putting through them. Remember garbage in, garbage out. If you like the old 5.1 setup better than a good pair of bookshelves, its probably because you're putting crappy stuff through the speakers and they are exposing all the things your old speakers glossed over.

These are some more suggestions for speakers, but if you're mainly playing music I'd probably go with an HSU sub. Plus the recommendations from up above are still valid.

 

[Mkilbride]

Bookshelf-minilist

EMP Tek E41-B Bookshelf Speaker

CBM-170 SE High Performance Bookshelf Loudspeaker

Verus Grand Bookshelf Speaker - Aperion Audio

I can understand why you might say act like adults, but in response I will say ask a silly question get less than desirable answers. If you spent some time looking around the threads, or did a search you'd see that there are a number of PC speaker threads and the configurations are either 2.0, 2.1, 4.0, or 4.1. This is because you're trying to deliver good accurate sound to a small very focused area. You don't need more than two speakers, unless you want enveloping sound and then you'd stick two speakers behind and to the side.

The setup you were looking at was cluttered and won't give you the sound of a quality 2.1 setup. As mentioned above a good 2.1 setup will sound better, and when placed correctly you'll get a nice wide soundstage as well giving you the impression of more than just two speakers. Granted, this also has a lot to do with what you're putting through them. Remember garbage in, garbage out. If you like the old 5.1 setup better than a good pair of bookshelves, its probably because you're putting crappy stuff through the speakers and they are exposing all the things your old speakers glossed over.

These are some more suggestions for speakers, but if you're mainly playing music I'd probably go with an HSU sub. Plus the recommendations from up above are still valid.

I mainly game on my PC. 5.1 has helped me many times.

I can hear sounds that people with 2.1 setups don't, more accurate that is.

For example, I can hear guys coming from behind me, or to the side, or at an angle, ect.

Several times I've had to double check and actually look into the next room or turn my chair around because I've been tricked.

Even though these are crappy PC Speakers from like...2004, I can't imagine going away from 5.1

The benefits in gaming and how much it improves immersion is insane.

I've had several people just question me to as how I knew where they are coming due to hearing such specific sound angles. I've often been at a 4 way inter-pass in a game and could hear the exact direction the person was coming from without trying because of the directional sound. It's invaluable at times.


How could I go back to 2.1 after that?

And all the sources I use are FLAC Stereo or 5.1 or 640 . If it's Stereo, I usually upmix it. Using a combination of MPCHC + MadVR + MadFlac + ReClock for direct playback, i.e, lossless.

--------------------

I think I may be coming to the wrong site. You guys are full on audioholics, as is the forum name. I thought you'd be able to see it from other peoples perspectives, but I'll probably go ask on another audiophile forum and hope the people can understand there that I am not paying 2,000$ for a setup. I'm not looking for that kind of setup.

 

[Grador]

Probably going to regret this but....

Have you considered keeping your logitech's for gaming and adding a 2.0 or 2.1 for music? Also upmixing is not "direct playback, i.e, lossless"

 

[fuzz092888]

Well, these points were never made clear until now first of all. I'm not big into PC gaming, but as far as I know beatmatcher is right. There are very few games that actually support true 5.1 channel sound. Besides, you're not losing anything by using 4 bookshelves and a sub compared to any boxed 5.1 channel system and have only to gain in audio quality. I used to have a z5500 system, still do and you will never ever ever convince me that those things produce better sound than quality bookshelves. Not after what I've heard. To me 4 bookshelves will give you so much better sound than those crappy super directional speakers that come boxed up like that.

Don't get me wrong my z5500 served me well, especially for what it provided on a super limited college budget. Nowadays, when budget is a little more flexible, if I had my computer in a separate room from my regular HT system I would not be going back to such a thing. It would be 4 bookshelves and a sub. I'd also like to point out that from your picture (things may be different) you don't even have them set up in a position to give you good surround sound. None are mounted adjacent to you or behind you. they're all in like a wall or slightly curved position in front of you. This is not how you get good surround sound where you hear noises all around you.

I can't speak for how things in your gaming have occurred, I can only try and translate your gaming experiences to my HT experiences and from those experiences you're just not going to convince me those things were throwing sounds behind you, and if they were, not accurately. Not until I hear such a thing for myself from speakers like those.

Furthermore, none of my recommendations have been for a $2000 setup. They have all been within your budget, or close to it. I think you need to realize that you're not going to convince people, some of whom have spent many years in the audio industry, that what you're claiming is true. You claim that you can't get the sound you want from what we recommend when, that's just untrue. Not to mention you're basing your reactions to our recommendations on information that wasn't given to us.

I mean if you don't like what we have to say/don't agree, then provide factual evidence that what we're saying is wrong. If we've given you suggestions that are outside your price range quote the suggestion and say so. If you think we haven't seen things from your perspective provide some evidence. Obviously you haven't been on this website too long or looked around too hard. There are many people with budgets less than yours that members have worked with to get something worth their money. Odds are, if recommendations get made for something above budget theres a good reason. If you hold something back like what you've said above, then criticize members for suggestions that don't meet unknown criteria, well then I think that's kinda bull. If you want recommendations for something that sounds good, you're on the right website. If you only want confirmations or denials for things you've already set your mind on, then go to amazon and read reviews.

Some of us have tried to help, I know I have, and all my recommendations have been off of the information you've given. Which means I personally don't appreciate the implication that you've made.

 

[avnetguy]

I can't speak for how things in your gaming have occurred, I can only try and translate your gaming experiences to my HT experiences and from those experiences you're just not going to convince me those things were throwing sounds behind you, and if they were, not accurately. Not until I hear such a thing for myself from speakers like those.

I game on consoles and if the PC audio output is the same, which I would imagine it would be, surround sound does indeed help with "target" location. Now would a better setup improve gaming, maybe a slight bit but the sounds wouldn't need to be that accurate, it's more about location. Also, a 4.1 system (phantom center) would probably work just as well providing it was mixed properly.

Steve

 

[jonnythan]

I think I may be coming to the wrong site. You guys are full on audioholics, as is the forum name. I thought you'd be able to see it from other peoples perspectives, but I'll probably go ask on another audiophile forum and hope the people can understand there that I am not paying 2,000$ for a setup. I'm not looking for that kind of setup.

I don't think you're on the wrong site. No one is recommending a $2000 audiophile system. I think you're not hearing what you want to hear so you're lashing out.

 

[Mkilbride]

I don't think you're on the wrong site. No one is recommending a $2000 audiophile system. I think you're not hearing what you want to hear so you're lashing out.

Third or so post is recommending a 2000$ system.

Others concur.

And very few games?


Most games since 2002 / 2003 have at least 5.1 support and it makes a huge difference. I'm talking about PC games here, not Console games, though some Console games do support Surround Sound.

You yourself said you're not a gamer. I am, I play them tons, and quite a few have amazing directional sound.

Amnesia: The Dark Descent is the scariest horror game to date, and playing it with Surround Sound was such a treat, that I kept having to look behind me, as I said in an earlier post, because I heard sounds like they were coming directly from behind me.

My room is small and the positions they are in were recommended by Dolby themselves to create a sound stage that bounces off the walls and encompasses me. It's a setup for my small room.

 

[jonnythan]

He didn't recommend a $2000 system, he was outlining the basic costs involved in getting something good.

I never said I wasn't a gamer. I never said anything at all about gaming. I am a gamer.

I'm not sure what you want us to say. For an on-desk PC gaming setup, an Onkyo HTIB is a very poor choice. You really need some smallish nearfield monitors for the desk - about $100 each; a halfway decent sub that doesn't suck *** - about $300; a receiver - about $250; and a pair of surround speakers - $100 to $200.

There are no "in a box" systems that will work well for your setup that aren't "computer speakers." The cheap HTiB systems are made for living rooms where you're 10 feet away from the speakers, not a computer desk. They simply won't work well at all for that. You could spend $600 on one and think "these suck more than what I had before!"

You could forgo the receiver and get two pair of A2s plus a sub and run a 4.1 setup - but that's like $700. There's no good answer to this problem in your price range, no matter how much you want there to be.

 

[BMXTRIX]

Geez, not sure what's going on with the guys today...

Looking at your desk setup and reading what you've written so far, I still have a few questions, but it seems like you have a few options.

Question: Where do you plan to put the speakers? Or, where CAN you put the speakers? Speakers can be wall mounted, set on stands, or you may just want them right there on the desk. The answer to this will affect the speakers which should be recommended.

If you can afford the space to get them off the desk and a bit further from you, then for the money, the Onkyo HTiB kits are NOT a bad way to start out. The biggest complaint, and rightfully so, with Onkyo systems is that they have pretty lousy speakers.

Pretty lousy speakers compared to decent home theater speakers. Compared to most PC speakers, the Onkyo speakers are gold from above.

But, they tend to need a little more space between the listener and the speakers to open up the sound enough to be properly immersive.

The best part about the Onkyo setup is that it truly allows for an upgrade path to newer and better speakers as your needs and budget allows. This is not a small matter, because the speakers you linked in your first post, which look like solid PC speakers, do NOT allow for that upgrade path.

What you really are searching for is the 'best' 5.1 setup for under $600 available to you right now. Rule: $600! Not $650 or $700. Not 2.0, 2.1, or anything else - 5.1 minimum, 7.1 if the potential exists (it does).

Onkyo is very much enjoyed by those who purchase their product. It certainly is 'entry level' in the home theater world, but the step up from a PC setup to this is more than just a little bit significant and should give you exactly what you are trying to achieve.

 

[fuzz092888]

I readily concede the computer gaming point, but not being a computer gamer doesn't mean I'm not a gamer.

Anyways if you're talking about post number 4 I still fail to see where a $2000 system is recommended. There are links to two other threads which give examples of PC setups and then there is a link to another thread that gives an EXAMPLE of what you could be heading towards and then two cheap but decent subs and a pair of bookshelves, which totals less than a grand. Subs less than $400ish bucks aren't generally recommended around here because, as the name of the forum suggests, we kinda care about how they sound not just how loud they get and its tough to find a good one for less, not because guys just try to needlessly get you to spend money. If it ain't good, it ain't gonna get thrown out there.

I also fail to see where others concur with this fictional $2000 system. One thread, the OP has a $200-250 budget. The other thread has a similar price range. The cadence sound speakers are like $200 and the source sound speakers are $400. All of which can be paired with a cheap receiver from A4L for within your price range. If you want 4 speakers, then two pairs of the behringers mentioned in one of the threads, or 4 of the cadence sound speakers plus a cheap receiver may run you like $700, then you save up for a good sub and you have an awesome setup.

Otherwise I stand by what I've said so far, and agree with jonnythan said.

BMX also makes some good points. Those HTIB aren't made to be 2 or 3 feet away from the listener, and also not made to be in a "wall of sound" setup. That is not 5.1 sound, it's more akin to 3.1 with front high or sort of wide speaker configurations. Part of the reason you get some of the answers you get are because the "best 5.1 system under $600" isn't going to be half as good as the "best 2.0/4.0/2.1 system you can get for $600-700" It won't sound as good and it won't be as upgradeable in the future.

To go off of what BMX said, if you only plan on putting the speakers on your desk or in a wall like that, getting good bookshelves that image and have a biggish soundstage will still give you sounds coming from different areas. What you're confusing are crappy super directional speakers to speakers that have a nice wide soundstage and image well. I suggest you go listen to some good speakers if you can and then maybe you won't be so set on a 5.1 system for your computer.

I was surprised by what a simple pair of bookshelves could do the first time I heard a pair. It sounds like you have this idea in your mind of what two speakers can do, and I'm telling you you're not necessarily correct based the speakers you've been listening to. The issue being that the speakers you have need more than 2 speakers to have any noises they're reproducing seem to come from anywhere except where you place them. That is not a quality of good speakers at all. This is where speaker accuracy comes into play. If the source is telling the speakers that theres a noise coming from to the left or right or above or below where the speakers is actually placed, a good accurate speaker will stay true to that source and reproduce that noise at least close to where it's supposed to be coming from. I think this is something you're not understanding, but I could be mistaken.

 

[Mkilbride]

Geez, not sure what's going on with the guys today...

Looking at your desk setup and reading what you've written so far, I still have a few questions, but it seems like you have a few options.

Question: Where do you plan to put the speakers? Or, where CAN you put the speakers? Speakers can be wall mounted, set on stands, or you may just want them right there on the desk. The answer to this will affect the speakers which should be recommended.

If you can afford the space to get them off the desk and a bit further from you, then for the money, the Onkyo HTiB kits are NOT a bad way to start out. The biggest complaint, and rightfully so, with Onkyo systems is that they have pretty lousy speakers.

Pretty lousy speakers compared to decent home theater speakers. Compared to most PC speakers, the Onkyo speakers are gold from above.

But, they tend to need a little more space between the listener and the speakers to open up the sound enough to be properly immersive.

The best part about the Onkyo setup is that it truly allows for an upgrade path to newer and better speakers as your needs and budget allows. This is not a small matter, because the speakers you linked in your first post, which look like solid PC speakers, do NOT allow for that upgrade path.

What you really are searching for is the 'best' 5.1 setup for under $600 available to you right now. Rule: $600! Not $650 or $700. Not 2.0, 2.1, or anything else - 5.1 minimum, 7.1 if the potential exists (it does).

Onkyo is very much enjoyed by those who purchase their product. It certainly is 'entry level' in the home theater world, but the step up from a PC setup to this is more than just a little bit significant and should give you exactly what you are trying to achieve.

I suppose I could wall mount them. I already had an idea of two on my front above my monitor, two on the back wall which is about 7-8 feet away , then put the center either on my desk where the current is, or right above the monitor, wall mounted.

I'm willing to break the 600$ limit for 5.1, providing I like what I see.

So show me some suggestions for that. I posted the Boston ones and I thought those might be a good idea, but I guess not from the reactions.

I'm looking to get a upgrade over my 80$ 5.1 speakers from Logitech from 2006.

They are pretty cheap, but I've enjoyed them for years now, but I'm an adult as well now and would like to move to a proper system.

The issue seems to be is, I came here with realistic expectations of an entry level system and I get made fun of, insulted, and not really receive help, but suggestions contrary to what I wanted.

"To start out"

Keep in mind, I plan to use these for many years, this isn't a temp solution, I'm talking years here, probably 5 at a minimum. So please do not suggest to me Speakers that are just barely passable.

As for a Receiver, this is 120$

DENON AVR-1312 5.1 Channel A/V Home Theater Receiver | Accessories4less

And looks adequate for a 5.1 system. Or is it not enough? I imagine that depends on the system.

Thanks for your help, BMXTRIX, you seem like someone who took the time to read and understand what I said and what I was looking for.

 

[jonnythan]

If I had $2000 to spend on a computer gaming 5.1 system and a home theater system, I'd spend $150-$200 on an all-in-one computer 5.1 system and the rest on the home theater. Without question or hesitation. The money is so much better invested in the living room it's unbelievable.

 

[jonnythan]

Thanks for your help, BMXTRIX, you seem like someone who took the time to read and understand what I said and what I was looking for.

He's the guy trying to sell you on an Onkyo HTIB system you would probably think is worse than what you have now.

 

[Grador]

So show me some suggestions for that. I posted the Boston ones and I thought those might be a good idea, but I guess not from the reactions.

They are pretty cheap, but I've enjoyed them for years now, but I'm an adult as well now and would like to move to a proper system.

The issue seems to be is, I came here with realistic expectations of an entry level system and I get made fun of, insulted, and not really receive help, but suggestions contrary to what I wanted.

You did not link us to the boston's, all of those links failed.

You most certainly aren't acting like an adult, you've been extremely belligerent and abusive to everyone who has tried to go over things with you.

Again, you're pretty much the only one throwing insults around.

 

[Mkilbride]

You did not link us to the boston's, all of those links failed.

You most certainly aren't acting like an adult, you've been extremely belligerent and abusive to everyone who has tried to go over things with you.

Again, you're pretty much the only one throwing insults around.

All those links work for me. Says Server Error - that's odd, but when I click them, it brings me to the links. Not my fault.

Here is one of the ones I linked to, directly from here:

Boston Acoustics SoundWare XS 5.1 Surround Speaker System — Reviews and News from Audioholics

They seem small and weak though, the review states nothing about how they sound or perform, annoyingly.

But I thought htey might be perfect for my room.

But I also thought about going the Classic II series of the way and spending like 600$ on the speakers + 120$ on the Receiver I linked and wall-mounting them.



Or possibly:

4x these

BOSTON ACOUSTICS A25 2-Way 5.25in Bookshelf Speaker Each Gloss White | Accessories4less

+

BOSTON ACOUSTICS A225C 2-Way Center Channel Speaker White | Accessories4less


So 400$

+

Maybe this Subwoofer?

BOSTON ACOUSTICS ASW250 10in 250W A Series Subwoofer White | Accessories4less

So 569$

+ Whatever Wallmounts?

Thoughts?

 

[Grador]

I cannot speak to the quality of any of those, I have not heard them, but I would say you'd probably miss the subwoofer far more than you would a center for gaming. Sitting right up there inbetween your front two you should be able to get perfectly sufficient front imaging, but nothing you're looking at will give you the bass that close to what you've become accustomed to with your logitech speakers.

I can tell you that cheap wall mounts are not worth the cost savings, so you'll actually need to budget a little bit for them. I have a pair that cost me $25 and am constantly afraid of my rear channels falling on my head.

 

[norml4721]

5.1 sys.

Hi ;

There is a Focal Sib 5.1 speaker system on sale at ebay for $250.00. Focal is a very high end speaker company that has trickle down to there lower product offerings. this system sold for about $1200 when it was new. I think it only has a day or so more so check it out. You can pick up a decent 5.1 receiver used for about $250 there as well. maybe a Denon, Onkyo, Marantz etc etc. All the old 5.1 receivers should be available in that price range as 7.1 is now the latest. In a few years or less it will be 9.1.

Anyway you get the idea. In this price range used is the way to go. In fact tie in your TV as well these receivers have several inputs.

Good Luck

Norm L

 

[norml4721]

5.1 sys.

Hi ;

There is a Focal Sib 5.1 speaker system on sale at ebay for $250.00. Focal is a very high end speaker company that has trickle down to there lower product offerings. this system sold for about $1200 when it was new. I think it only has a day or so more so check it out. You can pick up a decent 5.1 receiver used for about $250 there as well. maybe a Denon, Onkyo, Marantz etc etc. All the old 5.1 receivers should be available in that price range as 7.1 is now the latest. In a few years or less it will be 9.1.

Anyway you get the idea. In this price range used is the way to go. In fact tie in your TV as well these receivers have several inputs.

Good Luck

Norm L

 

[markw]

Buy whatever you want. It's no skin off our teeth and you don't seem to care about what anyone else says anyway. Besides, for your purpses, ambiance clues don't really require a high quality system anyway.

 

[Grador]

Buy whatever you want. It's no skin off our teeth and you don't seem to care about what anyone else says anyway. Besides, for your purpses, ambiance clues don't really require a high quality system anyway.

Which is exactly why i suggested keeping the logitechs for games and adding some decent monitors for music.